Singers who can't sing - maybe.

[LBS-bass]

I’ve got teenage daughters, so it’s hard to avoid “The Voice” on TV. And I don’t hate it; they’ve made it kind of fun with all the ball-busting among the coaches.

But I do sometimes wonder how far certain famous singers could get on a show where the quality of their voice is the only measured element. Peter Gabriel wouldn’t have gotten past the audition. Chris Cornell would have gotten a four chair turn in the first ten seconds.

IMO there's a difference between a trained singer and someone who has a signature style to their voice. Lots of singers don't have operatic qualities to their voices or formal training, but are able to bring their own unique style to the table, and I think that's always been a quality that A&R types were looking for when trying to assess an original band's overall sound. That whole list of singers someone posted earlier is comprised of people like that.

But when you listen to their recorded material, particularly their studio material, you're not hearing sour notes. You may be hearing tonal qualities that aren't classically "correct" but either they or someone in the studio put in the work to make sure their singing was, for the most part, on pitch, in those days before autotune and similar SW. Maybe it's not quite so good live; I couldn't even listen to CSNY's live album because the singing was so off in comparison to their studio work. That may have had more to do with stage conditions than ability, I don't know.

There are exceptions to this, of course, I can think of some early records where the singers went off the charts, pitch-wise, in certain places. But for the most part these are stylistic issues, not pitch issues.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Great question, and a tough one too. I always think of Lou Reed, Anthony Keidis, even Mick Jagger who is arguably in a different league than the other two .

Heart, soul, and stage presence have to be weighed into the balance as far as I'm concerned. And jumping into a new band, well... I mind my own business with that. If it makes me uncomfortable enough I won't join the band. I played in a cover band for a while where people LOVED the singer, despite the fact that he couldn't sing. At all. I was in the mens' room once and the guy next to me, not realizing I was in the band said, "This band is actually pretty good! Singer sucks REAL bad though."

 

[Pings Bass]

Singers and drummers are non-negotiable to me. And I think for most audience members, it's make or break for how an act is perceived. Like nobody cares how good the bassist or pianist is if the singer is off key or the drummer can't keep time.

I'm fortunate to be working with a really top-notch singer (well, I was in the before times, and hope to soon pick up where we left off). She's kind of spoiled me for "pretty good" or "good enough" singers. I'm not going back.

 

[2playbass]

If a singer is on stage and can't hear what they are doing, this is a big problem, and it's a very common problem. A good monitor mix can fix a large number of issues. A silent stage with in ear monitors is even better.

+1 to this. I don't sing lead; only harmonies. If I can't hear myself properly, I'm toast, even if I can sing on key in a quiet room. I was in one band with a crap PA, but what should have been a good singer. I suggested she sing with at least one ear plug in, and it helped tremendously, even if the monitor mix is bad.

 

[BassDad1964]

Some singers in a band get pushed into singing songs out of their range. Maybe for reasons that are not evil. I sing in my band, about 70% of the tunes. I KNOW that I can not sing with the same ability that I did in my 20's either. Just because I can "hit" the notes doesn't mean I can really sing the tune. Our band consists of really good players and I think that it helps some to have that behind me as I wail along. I however would LOVE to hire a singer who is actually a singer. When we do that we will go and listen to them sing and watch them work before we hire them. I want to hear what the audience hears as they sing. Best way to tell if they are really a singer or just a wanna be like me.

 

[Playbyear]

My experience is that singers who also play an instrument tend to sing more on pitch than those that don't. The singers don't have to be accomplished instrumentalist. I believe playing an instrument helps a person learn pitches and intervals. (I know my "hearing" has improved when I started playing a fretless bass and upright.)
.

In a related comment, I find it easier to sing in key while playing bass.

 

[BassDad1964]

Because when they were 10 they would sing to entertain their families, or they would sing in church, and no one ever gave them any feedback other than, "that was so good, you have a lovely voice." And if they can't hear their own shortcomings, they believed it.

It's like watching the early tryouts on American Idol. Am I twisted inside because I believe that it is extremely entertaining to watch folks' bubbles getting burst?

 

[pcake]

I once played in a cover band where the singer/BL was embarrassingly bad... sang stuff he had no business even attempting. But... the guy had huge brass balls and more charisma and confidence than any ten people I know.

Our first gig was a midweek tavern thing. He turned $100 into $325 just by chatting up the owner and saying, "Hey, look what we did tonight. I promise you next time you'll do even better than that." And we did.

Like I said... big brass balls.

He also played harmonica. But never paid any attention to which key harp he drug out. That kind of guy.

It was his first band. I spent a lot of time building into him... convincing him that he could lead a band. Turns out that I created a monster... an alcoholic monster with a huge freakin' ego. Oh well. Good times.

i've known bands with singers who don't even hit close to the notes by accident that do okay. one is the house band at a dive bar, and everyone has a good time. that would drive me nuts, but i'm neither a member of that band nor a member of the audience.

btw, both of those singers are really great with the crowds before and after the shows, and apparently that works really welll.

 

[jimmydean]

A couple of years ago I tried to kindly give advice to the lead singer of a band I joined and he gave me my '' walking papers''....The next time I offered advice in the next band , the advice was appreciated and I've played 230 gigs with the singer .......Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't .

 

[EatS1stBassist]

Your band is only as good as your worst singer!

 

[dkelley]

In a related comment, I find it easier to sing in key while playing bass.

I find it harder! Interesting you find it easier, that's awesome. I also find rhythm way harder when playing bass and singing lead. So when we perform live I tend to really simplify my bass parts while I sing, so I Can focus on the main deal of the song (the lead vocals).

 

[missinglink44]

I’d say if a singer can stay in key then even the most narrow range is acceptable. If you’re joining a new band you’re accepting them ‘as is’ so.....
I always give singers a lot of leeway regardless of character or talent. They’re the ones with the balls to stand there and sing after all. I can always go hide behind a cymbal and stare at my guitar.
Good luck

I can relate,,,
Sometimes, I'm the weakest "Link!"

 

[micguy]

I play church gigs. We're constantly playing in lots of different keys to fit whatever singer is leading a given tune. That's fine. But if the singer in a band isn't.....good, the band will almost certainly never get anywhere. The singer is the most visible, most audible person on stage. They are what the audience locks into - if they're.....uh, manure, there's not much you can do to fix it.

One of my rules is that...if a band is willing to accept me as a singer, they're not good enough for me to join. I have an OK voice with a limited range. Almost all of the singers I play with have MUCH better voices than I do.

 

[bobdabilder]

Great answer. Sing 4 or 5 songs and then critique. If you can sing well: congratulations.

I’d say if a singer can stay in key then even the most narrow range is acceptable. If you’re joining a new band you’re accepting them ‘as is’ so.....
I always give singers a lot of leeway regardless of character or talent. They’re the ones with the balls to stand there and sing after all. I can always go hide behind a cymbal and stare at my guitar.
Good luck

 

[Ostie]

Bob Dylan
Neil Young
Tom Waits

All of these people are exceptional song writers. They sing their own songs and they are perfect for that. It matters to me not at all whether they are good singers or not. They are perfect singers for the particular song they are singing. I’ll listen to any of them before I’ll listen to a perfect singer like Celine Dion.

Most Hip Hop songs and rap are not sung. They are recited. Yet Rap and Hip Hop are the most listened to songs in the market in the US. It’s all about what comes from the soul.

 

[Bruiser Stone]

I can only speak to the value of excellence. The singer/worship leader at my church gig has a lovely, earthy voice. She has a great ear. We are spoiled.

 

[poppunk]

I think doing vocals "in key" is the easy part. If somebody can't hear or achieve notes properly they have very difficult to overcome issues.

I've been taking vocal lessons for awhile now. The reason I started is because I ended up being the primary vocalist in a band (and have been on and off over the years), but I had poor consistency in how good I sounded. I've actually been pretty good about being in with notes that belonged, the problem is all the other stuff, and it's even harder.

When I used to hear a vocalist and they just sounded good (outside of the people who really are doing something very stylized and their "own thing") I really couldn't tell you why. It's about how well they use breathing, support, resonating, and projection. My voice may have sounded okay at times without help, but it was just luck. I had never learned how to breath and support properly (which is actually really hard) nor did I have any idea where to be sending the sound in my head and out my mouth. I also have a tendency to clamp down my throat when I sing high (has been a long road working to reduce this) and I always wondered why my low voice sounded so weak (support).

The last thing I usually worry about when practicing vocals is the note. That generally just comes. It's all that other stuff. In a band context, I feel like vocals are the easiest thing to fake (at least somewhat) to survive, but the hardest thing to get good at. And many people just have such a huge roadblock in hearing or ability they will just never even get serviceable. I think I'd have a hard time finding a bass or guitar player who couldn't at least do something reasonable and have it sounding good with a decent amount of instruction and practice.

But if you have vocalists who can't even get the right notes (unless they have that stage presence/style where it doesn't matter), that's probably a pretty untenable situation.

 

[ThePez]

i’d rather play with an amazing front man that’s naturally entertaining, than an amazing singer who can’t connect to am audience. i’ve done both.

you can’t fake being entertaining. those who try come off as fake (to me) and obnoxious. in that case, give me an amazing wallflower singer.

in my experience, authenticity trumps perfect pitch.

 

[jobu3]

Bands are only as good as their drummer and as popular as their singer.

 

[PennyroyalWe]

As my local music scene slowly wakes up from COVID isolation, I'm looking for a new band. I'm listening to people's recordings and it confirms what I already knew: A lot of singers are consistently way off key, and/or they're trying to sing in a key which makes no sense for their vocal range. This leads to an interesting question: How do you tell if a singer has more potential than what the recordings reveal? And more dangerous: How do you have this discussion if you're the new guy entering an existing band?

As the bad singer of a band myself, I’m well aware that it’s oftentimes not good. I try not to put songs I don’t sing well into a set list, but sometimes it happens. My problem is the idea of changing a songs key to fit my range, that doesn’t make much sense to me. A musician should be able to perform any song in any key, and I should like to become a musician. Maybe the register needs raised or lowered, but the key shouldn’t need to move. Imagine if a bassist showed up and said “I think I’m a pretty good bassist, but I can’t play in the key of F.” Then they’re not really a good bassist are they? I probably should get a vocal coach to learn proper technique to extend my range and not hurt myself, but the idea of paying someone $90-120/hr (some how the going rate around here?!) to be humiliated by exposing the thing I’m most self conscious about doesn’t sound fun at all. Maybe someday I’ll get over my fears and improve...or I’ll just stop singing forever.