If you can afford it, it's worth every penny. It's kind of murder to sit there and work on it sometimes, but at this point I'm starting to get over hating hearing my own voice. I guarantee that the stuff you're not doing but will learn to do over time will make an immense difference in how you sound. The number of kids who can pick up bass and guitar and learn from other people/playing music and actually get proficient is pretty large. Without someone to steer you on vocals it's near impossible.
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Singers who can't sing - maybe.
- Thread starter Ancientangler
- Start date
If you can afford it, it's worth every penny. It's kind of murder to sit there and work on it sometimes, but at this point I'm starting to get over hating hearing my own voice. I guarantee that the stuff you're not doing but will learn to do over time will make an immense difference in how you sound. The number of kids who can pick up bass and guitar and learn from other people/playing music and actually get proficient is pretty large. Without someone to steer you on vocals it's near impossible.
The whole ‘Geddy can’t sing’ statement was a reflection on what I have heard, not my personal opinion. I too am a huge Geddy/Rush fan
If you’re playing covers and the singer can’t do a reasonable version of the original or at least an enjoyable version, I think it’s a problem. I would not get involved. If you’re doing originals and a quirky/unusual voice is part of the overall sound, then it might work.
Vocals , to me, are probably the most important part of a performance (instrumental bands aside). That’s just me.
Vocals , to me, are probably the most important part of a performance (instrumental bands aside). That’s just me.
Hmm...
To question #1: Seems to me that an audition tape, like a model's portfolio or even a resume, SHOULD show what they're capable of. But if they're satisfied with the end product then maybe that's ALL they are capable of. If I were interviewing/auditioning someone based on a tape/resumé, I'm likely to make that first judgement based on the care that was taken in getting it right. If they can't hear they are off, they'll always be off (or on by accident). I guess bottom line is, they either don't know or don't care they're off key. Either case, I'd pass.
To question #2: If you agree to join the BAND, you agree to the makeup of the BAND.
My .02 but you probably have change coming...
Tim
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I was briefly in a WHitesnake tribute band , singer was a friend of a friend so I went to rehearse with them . The singer could not stay in tune, and would scream/get raspy when he tried to hit the notes . I left before their 1st gig . Same singer invited me to hear his new tribute band a Bad Co tribute ..... wow was even worse on those tunes !
Which suggests maybe one of the instrumentalists with a good ear should give singing a crack.
Have a small chat about approaching the singer with someone in the band you’re comfortable and see how they feel about the vocals and the idea of replacing or improving there abilities.
I did this, we went out for drinks without the singer and all discussed and agreed on all of the same points.
The guitarist was tight with the vocalist so he broke the news to him and in return the band broke up...
that being said I now play with some incredibly talented vocalists and don’t regret anything.
David Lee Roth had a most limited set of vocal skills, yet he worked up a larger than life wiseass stage persona, harkening back to old time vaudville show-biz schtick at times(beyond what he took away from Black Oak Arkansas’ Jim Dandy, another less than Pavarotti frontman). Aside from Eddie’s game changing guitar, Roth’s party time personality on stage helped sell the band(imagine if a more tuneful mope like Michael Stipe had been the singer...yeah, neither could I). VH with Roth owned the hard rock early 80’s, obviously. When Sammy, who is a skilled singer but not quite the entertainer, came along, the air went out of the tires a bit. Plenty of hardcore early fans drifted away, “Van Hagar” grousing and all that. So, which version of the band is superior?
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Really interesting thread, I learned a lot!
But mostly...
I learned I can be a singer! Cover your ears, it will be over soon!
The wife and I are actually going to take singing lessons... we will never be in a band, but we are planning a karaoke party and she wants to do well, haha.
But mostly...
I learned I can be a singer! Cover your ears, it will be over soon!
The wife and I are actually going to take singing lessons... we will never be in a band, but we are planning a karaoke party and she wants to do well, haha.
drumvsbass
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Here is my ranking of jobs you can be incompetent at in the band and still be in the band.
1. Singer. We have all seen it, even major league bands have questionable singers. It's why Autotune exists.
2. Bassist.
I might have even put this as number one, but I know my audience. Lots of bands with coat hangers for bassists. Few can distinguish it in a mix aside from other practitioners. Quality in this role is almost unnecessary. 
3. Keyboards. Generally most keyboardists in bands are pad holders, B3 drawbar manipulator/leslie circumnavigators or piano chart readers. No one buys a performance keyboard without some skillset. So incompetent keyboardists are a rare breed, but they usually come in the flavor of band member S.O. with a side of tambourine.
4. Guitarist. As long as he can widdly widdly, everything will be fine. I've made it work with just about anything.
5. Drummer. If your drummer sucks. Your band sucks. There is no other way about it. I have carried many a 'drummer' through the night. But it was never pretty, nor fun.*
Funny though the singer can be questionable, but not awful. The line is somewhere around Karaoke. It's that difference between DLR or Van Hagar. Hagar is top tier rock singing royalty. DLR is an entertainer who also happens to be a very capable 'Vocalist'. I'll forgive a lot in singers if they have a personality voice. Ultimately I have never really had to, I've been spoiled in that I have only ever worked with top notch singer/entertainer/front people, or played in instrumental bands. I have however been subjected to more than a handful of Satans minions who claim to be drummers, no time, no groove, no dynamics, but man they got fills and stick twirling tricks.
*Imagine if you will a scenario. A band on a gig. The bassist, unwilling to participate in the drinking reverie, stay sober. The bar, packed on a Saturday night. The second set began with a Reggae medley that is on a sequence. Bassist notices that the drummer starts in a strange way and looks over to see with
horror that the drummer is not wearing the headphones with the click, and he is quite drunk 
... Bassist. Armed with an SVT and an 810, pins the bass knob, plays hard articulate time with the rhythm track on the sequence that he can hear through the front of house while the drummer played 'Jazz'. I got a gold star for that piece of wizardry.
1. Singer. We have all seen it, even major league bands have questionable singers. It's why Autotune exists.
2. Bassist.
I might have even put this as number one, but I know my audience. Lots of bands with coat hangers for bassists. Few can distinguish it in a mix aside from other practitioners. Quality in this role is almost unnecessary. 3. Keyboards. Generally most keyboardists in bands are pad holders, B3 drawbar manipulator/leslie circumnavigators or piano chart readers. No one buys a performance keyboard without some skillset. So incompetent keyboardists are a rare breed, but they usually come in the flavor of band member S.O. with a side of tambourine.
4. Guitarist. As long as he can widdly widdly, everything will be fine. I've made it work with just about anything.
5. Drummer. If your drummer sucks. Your band sucks. There is no other way about it. I have carried many a 'drummer' through the night. But it was never pretty, nor fun.*
Funny though the singer can be questionable, but not awful. The line is somewhere around Karaoke. It's that difference between DLR or Van Hagar. Hagar is top tier rock singing royalty. DLR is an entertainer who also happens to be a very capable 'Vocalist'. I'll forgive a lot in singers if they have a personality voice. Ultimately I have never really had to, I've been spoiled in that I have only ever worked with top notch singer/entertainer/front people, or played in instrumental bands. I have however been subjected to more than a handful of Satans minions who claim to be drummers, no time, no groove, no dynamics, but man they got fills and stick twirling tricks.
*Imagine if you will a scenario. A band on a gig. The bassist, unwilling to participate in the drinking reverie, stay sober. The bar, packed on a Saturday night. The second set began with a Reggae medley that is on a sequence. Bassist notices that the drummer starts in a strange way and looks over to see with
horror that the drummer is not wearing the headphones with the click, and he is quite drunk ... Bassist. Armed with an SVT and an 810, pins the bass knob, plays hard articulate time with the rhythm track on the sequence that he can hear through the front of house while the drummer played 'Jazz'. I got a gold star for that piece of wizardry.
Take this with a grain of salt because I'm probably not as good or as experienced as most of you
-BUT-
I tend to look at potential over presentation. As in, if I hear something deep within the singer that he's maybe holding back, or if there's a lot of untapped potential, I do what I can to coax it out of him/her. Im a big believer in being able to do anything you put your heart and soul into. Is the singer putting his heart into his work? And if not, why not? Does he lack drive or is he just afraid of really unleashing? Can he be trained or do obstacles like arrogance or indifference stand in the way?
To me, and yeah it's gonna be different depending who were talking to, but a good singer is a wild beast. Completely uninhibited and unrestrained, well rehearsed and confident, almost over confident, disciplined in nature but really to put everything he is on display and chant it out for the angels, man. A good coach can get that out of a singer, not only in a technical aspect but by lighting the spark. The fire lies in most people and it will push them to overcome personal limitations with the right muse.
Rather than be the judge, be the muse.
Light the fire.
-BUT-
I tend to look at potential over presentation. As in, if I hear something deep within the singer that he's maybe holding back, or if there's a lot of untapped potential, I do what I can to coax it out of him/her. Im a big believer in being able to do anything you put your heart and soul into. Is the singer putting his heart into his work? And if not, why not? Does he lack drive or is he just afraid of really unleashing? Can he be trained or do obstacles like arrogance or indifference stand in the way?
To me, and yeah it's gonna be different depending who were talking to, but a good singer is a wild beast. Completely uninhibited and unrestrained, well rehearsed and confident, almost over confident, disciplined in nature but really to put everything he is on display and chant it out for the angels, man. A good coach can get that out of a singer, not only in a technical aspect but by lighting the spark. The fire lies in most people and it will push them to overcome personal limitations with the right muse.
Rather than be the judge, be the muse.
Light the fire.
To the OP's question. The singer has to be able to sing within their abilities and put on a great show as the front person. I would try to gauge how loose they are and whether they can get the crowd into a performance. A lot is forgiven if the vibe is there. That said, there are limits to how "bad" you can be and whether it can be OK. Billy Corgan and Anthony Keidis can sound pretty off key live but it kind of doesn't matter (to me at least). Another guy that comes to mind is Stephen Pearcy from Ratt. Not a "good" singer and he doesn't claim to be. But playing live is about putting off a vibe and entertaining people in many genres and he did that very well. Different story if you are known for your voice on recordings and can't pull it off live. Nothing worse than setting up the expectation that you can sing your butt off only to find the live performance isn't even close.
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My initial response is; why aren't you the lead singer? You seem to have the ear to distinguish what is wrong with others, so why don't you do it yourself? It would be much easier than trying to find someone who mets your standards and, naturally, less band members means less potential scheduling conflicts, more room in the van, more money for everybody, etc.
Ken Mo is good, but singers like Bonnie Raitt are more rare than unobtainium. I was in two situations playing bass behind singers covering a couple of her tunes. Both sang in tune, but only one of them caught the spirit of the vocal part, while privately admitting that covering her music felt like standing in giant shoes that could never be filled.
The other one just sang the material in tune, but in a soulless way that made me wish to be anywhere but on that stage in that moment. It was the sonic equivalent of drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa. The fact that it was in tune didn’t help much.
Intonation is incredibly important, but even with it music can still be pretty terrible if the person singing doesn’t understand or can’t convey the character of the music.
Nobody hears their singing (or speaking) voice accurately. It’s due to the bones in our heads. That’s one reason that opera singers travel with vocal coaches. Tape don’t lie.
My vocal coach had Keb Mo as a client at one point, coincidentally when he was on tour opening for Bonnie.
Bonnie Raitt live can peel paint with that voice. Her father was a musical theatre guy. Those guys have to hit the back row. John taught Bonnie well.
