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Singing over complicated basslines

#21
just gotta do it a lot.
I think the vocals are more important than the bass part, so I will play a simpler bass part until I can knock out the vocal part just the way I like.
Then I will add in the more complex bass parts, and after a few practices I can increase the bass line complexity, but someitmes I do have to just change the bass part if it is too much for me to handle.
 
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#22
I don't think I've ever had to play and sing something as tough as these examples. I end up simplifying in the most musical way I can. In those instances, I've always had to practice the hands part until I don't have to think about it. By that time, the vocal line is a cinch!
 
#23
Learn your bass part until you don't have to even think about it. If you're having trouble with a part, figure out which word that the bass fill starts on and hit them at the same time. That will often get you over parts you are having trouble singing while playing.

And just admit to yourself that there are some songs where it's just not going to happen. I can never seem to play bass to Chicago's Beginnings and sing it at the same time. So I play guitar on that one and sing it.
 
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#24
SactoBass said:
For me, it took a *plethora* of hours! I used to play in a YES tribute band (mostly their 70's material). Prior to putting that band together, I had been playing Yes material on my bass for decades and I knew the bass material very well. But in the YES tribute band, I not only played bass, but I forced myself to learn to sing Chris Squire's very odd, contrapuntal vocal harmony parts. Oh man.....that guy is all over the place with his vocal harmonies! It took me hours and hours and hours (actually months) to nail it. There was no easy "short cut" available. I just had to put in the time to do it. But since I'm the one who put that band together, I felt that I needed to step up and learn my vocal parts to pay correct tribute to the music. After months of practicing by myself, I finally got to where the vocal parts became programmed in my mind to match playing the notes on my bass, kinda like wearing down a path in my neurons. No one else forced me to do this. I chose to do it. And in the end, it was all worth it to me because I had a blast performing that music in that band! :thumbsup:
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Awesome! Would love to be in a Yes tribute, just for the challenge. Lake or Wetton era Crimson or Cream. I'm a bassist who sings as much as plays. Both for a very long time now, but I still recall that strange sort of out of body spectator-like moment when I played and sang Hey Joe for the first time.
This is a glimpse of a Police project that kept me pretty busy onstage.

 
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#26
ghostinthemach said:
Awesome! Would love to be in a Yes tribute, just for the challenge. Lake or Wetton era Crimson or Cream. I'm a bassist who sings as much as plays. Both for a very long time now, but I still recall that strange sort of out of body spectator-like moment when I played and sang Hey Joe for the first time.
This is a glimpse of a Police project that kept me pretty busy onstage.

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Nicely done!!! :thumbsup:
 
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#28
I'm not that good at singing while playing bass, but I had a band that found a song that worked well for me - Crazy Mama

First time we played it somewhere, a woman off the street came in and was meandering all over the dance floor. I had to sing Crazy Mama to a literally crazy woman! The rest of the band found it... amusing.
 
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#29
From an episode of Jeeves and Wooster:
(after witnessing an impressive piano performance)
Barmy: "l mean, as far as l can see, the trick in playing the piano is to get one hand to do one thing, while the other one's doing something else. Well, yes - l can do that with a knife and fork, - so l don't see why....."

Wow, a Yes Tribute band! +1 for wishing I could be part of such a project!
 
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#30
I really struggled with this, and I still do, but just less than I did. Especially when I learn a new song, by brain feels like it's separating from left and right, it feels weird. I'm the lead singer as well as the bass player. Some songs are simple, so they're ok. But the complicated stuff makes me crazy.

The way I usually do it, is that I learn the bass line first, that's usually more complicated. Then I hum or "la" the vocals to make sure I can hit the pitches when singing, then I add the words. Make sure that you master each step before going to the next one or you may have to start again. Eventually my brain permanently remembers it.

Just I technique I made up for myself that usually works for me, might work for you too, but it may not. There might be a better technique out there, but I would give my method a try. :thumbsup:
 
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#32
I saw an interview with Geddy somewhere and the person asked him how he sung and played. He said there were songs were he was throwing stuff around and cussing because he couldn’t get it, but just worked through it and practiced his face off.

I’m learning how to do it now, just humming melodies over bass. Incremental steps is what I’m shooting for. I think it boils down to a war of practice attrition.
 
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#33
I do a lot of singing over bass parts. I fit the vocal notes around the bass notes. Typically, a simpler line needs to line up the phrasing around the root notes or a riff. I play a lot of bluesy stuff, so it's like working around rhythm guitar changes, and I have most of the usual pentatonic progressions down so I just have to add the vocals.

I usually find a couple of tough spots in every tune where I have to think about what goes where relative to the other part. So yeah, it's all about the practicing, and after you sing the first 20-30 songs, you start to get more comfortable with it with almost any tune. You draw from your experience.
 
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#34
I have always been in awe with how Geddy Lee or Paul McCartney + all other bass/vocal players pull it off seemingly so easy. Just watching our drummer perform lead vocals over a double kick and hi-hat (both feet) + (both hands) snare, cymbals + drums roles in between also floors me, like juggling 3 balls + 2 plates at the same time. I agree with the practice comments. I personally have gradually worked my way from being distracted by just taking three steps forward(while playing bass lines) to now doing harmonies over most bass lines I play. I am guessing that this comes more natural/easier to some people than others. It certainly never was easy for me.
 
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#36
I play in a church band so we typically have two to five vocalists on stage and 400 in the "audience". Everyone in the house is singing and not only does it just feel right to join in we are expected to sing during passages when we are not playing. Another advantage is that it is hard to have "bass face" and sing at the same time! I play bass in rotation with two other bassists and I also sing bass in the choir when the others are playing and on my "bass Sundays" when the band is not needed to accompany the choir. Sometimes our most excellent choir pianist accompanies the choir alone.

Even so, I found it very difficult to sing and play when I started out a few years ago. Yes, it is hard to play even quarter notes and sing at the same time. It just feels so unbearably odd. Some of the tunes we play I have been singing for decades and yet even if I can sing them while playing I find it impossible to sing the melody, I have to sing the pitch I am playing! Sometimes, but not others!! It is a bizarrely difficult task, for some of us anyway.

I don't have any secrets to share. The notion that practice, practice, practice will help seems to have applied in my case. I just started out trying and failing and keeping at it and over time it has gotten easier. I generally sing at least parts of some songs every time I play. I still find it impossible, most of the time, to sing one rhythm against a different one I want to play. I'm not mic'ed so as long as my lips are moving as far as the people in the congregation can tell I am singing like a nightingale. They won't know if I'm not singing the same rhythm they are and it is fairly common in choral music for one part to sing a different rhythm than the others and that experience can help to teach you to do two things at once in some cases. Unfortunately choirs are not that common even in churches anymore so I don't know where most of you would find one to sing with if you wanted to see if that would help with your band singing. I don't know how it is at a secular concert but people at church really appreciate it when the musicians sing. So I sing as much as I can and I don't worry about it when I cannot.

I have not tried this personally but if you want/need to improve your ability to sing and play different rhythms simultaneously you might try working with a piano teacher. This has been mentioned in previous posts but piano players must at times play in two on one hand and in three with the other so they have techniques that help students learn how to do that. The same techniques might help the budding singing bassist master the craft of performing in two rhythms at a time. I love doing the two against three thing btw, as long as I only have to do one or the other! It is a very powerful technique for the different sections of an ensemble to use as long as you don't overuse it. So it is something you can use in your basslines, if you are not already.

If I really, really want to sing a song I will modify the rhythms I am playing to make it possible for me to do both. I have to do that less now than I did in the beginning but I've got a long, long way to play against the rhythm I'm singing as well as Duck Dunn could.
 
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#37
I've gotten MUCH better at this very quickly after YEARS of just thinking It was too difficult, you really just have to set your mind to it hash it out in your own head.

I started playing chords on guitar and singing but now I'm able to sing and play simple bass/guitar lines that don't necessarily line up with the vocal.

I won't claim to be a major talent on it or anything, but it feels so good when you get it going.
I tried "The Serpent" by Genesis and have pretty much got it down on guitar and bass and it feels great.

Seems to me best thing to do is slow it to almost comically slow tempo, then ramp it it up. It has to be rehearsed for me, I cannot do it off the cuff at all. I 'might' be able to speak to someone while strumming in time on guitar. The example videos some of you guys have posted are light years ahead of anything I can picture myself doing, never mind performing onstage.
 
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#38
I'm by no means an expert, but I'll contribute what I believe to be true. I've been an avid fan of Paul McCartney for many years. He always plays piano, guitar, ukulele or bass while singing. While he can sing and play some pretty complicated stuff (Mr Kite, Day Tripper), I've noticed he usually sticks to simpler rhythms while the others do the heavy lifting. His piano accompaniments are almost always simple chordal arrangements, similar to acoustic guitar strumming cowboy chords. I think most of us are capable of singing and playing songs with a simple driving rock beat. However, Geddy talent is because of aliens.
 
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#39
I sing and play a 5 string fretless in my weekly gig in a P&W band at my church. I'm not sure how it came about but my fingers just kind of find their way as I work on harmonizing with the other singers. I will say that I spend a lot of time at home singing and playing guitar and that has helped tremendously as I find it a bit of a struggle to play bass at home alone and sing. Also, I've been playing for 25 years and there's a lot of muscle memory in my hands. That helps as well. ymmv.
 
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#40
David Sutkin said:
I can't even sing over a simple quarter note root bassline .... I'm in total awe of bassists who can sing and play at the same time like this, and on a fretless too!



How many hours of practice went into being able to pull this off?!
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...I'm sorry, I started watching that video and totally forgot your question! Esperanza is fantastically talented. We are blessed to be living in the same days as she.

About singing and playing bass, I'm not very good at it, but with practice I can fake it well enough. Fortunately I don't have to do it much since my voice is not easy on the ears.
 
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