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Singing over complicated basslines

#41
David Sutkin said:
I can't even sing over a simple quarter note root bassline .... I'm in total awe of bassists who can sing and play at the same time like this, and on a fretless too!

How many hours of practice went into being able to pull this off?!
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I'm just in awe of Esperanza Spalding in general. Is there anything she can't do? Comparing yourself to such players is totally counterproductive though. I bet there are a bunch of players she looks up to as well though, so that makes me feel better :)

Back to your questions -- I have no idea how to sing and play over complicated lines. I hope someone has an answer, as I've been designated backup vocalist role in one project and occasional lead in another -- JAZZ -- project -- and I can't sing worth a damn at the best of times let alone while playing syncopated difficult stuff on an upright.
 
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#42
I used to be part of a band that played a mix of punk and brazilian music.

I just trained until it became a second nature.

It also helped to leave the flashier stuff for the parts in which I didn't sing, but I used to write the bass and lyrics before the vocal melody, so the bass line was always complicated and the songs really wordy at the sime time.

My vocal and bass technique were a lot sloppier back then, but it added to the punkish charm (I wish)

 
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#44
David Sutkin said:
I can't even sing over a simple quarter note root bassline .... I'm in total awe of bassists who can sing and play at the same time like this, and on a fretless too!



How many hours of practice went into being able to pull this off?!
Click to expand...


Have you ever really listened to some of the stuff Paul McCartney has done?! Good God he is amazing. Same with Geddy and all the other usual bass heroes. Just blows my mind sometimes. But I'm sure it didn't happen overnight and it took hundreds if not thousands of hours of practice. I'm sure it came easier for some and harder for others. But I def respect and appreciate the hell out of musicians who can do it well.
 
#46
devnulljp said:
I'm just in awe of Esperanza Spalding in general. Is there anything she can't do? Comparing yourself to such players is totally counterproductive though. I bet there are a bunch of players she looks up to as well though, so that makes me feel better :)

Back to your questions -- I have no idea how to sing and play over complicated lines. I hope someone has an answer, as I've been designated backup vocalist role in one project and occasional lead in another -- JAZZ -- project -- and I can't sing worth a damn at the best of times let alone while playing syncopated difficult stuff on an upright.
Click to expand...

The thing about Esperanza is that she is one of those performers who not only takes the time to study and practice; she's also highly gifted, and one in a million. She's got a great voice, great sense of melody and rhythm, and happens to be a highly skilled instrumentalist as well. She's really quite amazing, and I hope even she knows it.
 
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#48
Not often I have trouble with it, but when I do, I get the bassline and vocal as solid in my head as I can and I practice them slowly together, gradually working up to speed. Sometimes I might sit for half an hour working on 4 bars before moving on. I'm not an expert on the best method to do it since I can usually do it no problem and only have to work at songs occasionally, but that usually works for me.
 
#49
mellowinman said:
Yes, but how much have you practiced? I find the only issue with singing over complicated bass lines is if the singing requires a lot of body control. Meaning I can sing a melody over the toughest thing I could ever play, but if I have to work to hit the notes; get the phrasing; or put myself into the trance, even a simple bass line would mess it up.
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For me it depends on the song. Whichever one is the easiest I learn so well I can do it in my sleep so that when I perform I can concentrate on the other. But a "trance" really isn't too far off when they are both hard. You just gotta get to that place where the song takes over. Your fingers and your voice are kind of along for the ride. :D

That's a very cool place to be honestly....when you get to the end of the song and sort of snap out of it....as if you checked out for a minute.
 
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#50
I love the feeling you get when your performance is a whole, you're not just singing or playing bass but you self-perceive more as a whole that simply produces sound. It's hard to get it going but it's a great sense of achievement. Personally after singing this, Invalid Link Removed (verses) or this, the hardest song to sing&play within my originals material is this one...



What helped me at the very beginning was using a mirror so I could check what I was playing with my eyes while "living" what I was singing. Helped me a lot.

One of the latest things I've been working on to further improve "dissociation" is this. Mostly groovy riffs under "simple" vocals. Great training piece.


And then there's this, which I have only lightly attempted (tricky part is obviously the verses)...
 
#51
I sing and play at the same time. My best advice for you is to learn the song by heart. When I mean by heart means you can play the entire song without event thinking about it. This means you managed to send it to your left brain. Once you perfectly got that, you can add the vocals. Even if you now your song 90% it won't be enough as you must not even think about it to perfectly sing and play.
 
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#53
I can't do it. And I've tried for almost my entire career to do it. Of course, I can't do two handed independent playing either (like Stu Hamm). My brain is just not wired that way.

Now if you ask me to sing the bass part while playing it, I can!

I admire guys like Lee, Squire, Claypool and many others who can play and sing independent parts...
 
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#56
Last year we recorded an album and there were a couple of songs I rap on. I had made sure I just held the root note (being lazy). Our producer had me change the lines. I was terrified of having to do those live and asked him "*** do I do live?. To what he replied: "IDK, not my business". I'm glad we did, I started slow then built up to the tempo we play live. Once you mind is able to separate both actions and you can just flow through them... gravy!

PS: not that the basslines come anywhere close to Esperanza. I can't do that alone.
 
#58
As someone else said, the coordination issue is one thing, but to really sing you have to pay attention to a number of extra physical things: erect posture, breath support (having a strong diaphragm), having enough breath... plus, to really "sell" a song, you have to project some energy, whether it's soft or loud.
You can play the bass well while completely slumped over and holding your breath, but if you want to sing anything more than shouting the background vocals to "Mustang Sally", these other considerations come into play.
 
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#60
I don't know how Les Claypool does what he does, other than extreme amounts of practice, talent, and possibly amphetamines. I can play piano and guitar while singing no problem, but I have to practice singing while playing bass.
 

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