Small speakers that sound 'big'

[FourBanger]

I've been looking around at manufacturer webpages and have been intrigued by some of the compact yet powerful designs I've seen. I don't remember seeing this category of rig in my bass playing youth.

I see 1x8, 1x10, even 2x8 cabs designed to handle hundreds of watts. Is there a sound compromise for that portability and compactness or has the engineering come along as to allow tone to be on par with more typical cab sizes?

Seems like these are good days to be a bass gear geek.

 

[CL400Peavey]

I've been looking around at manufacturer webpages and have been intrigued by some of the compact yet powerful designs I've seen. I don't remember seeing this category of rig in my bass playing youth.

I see 1x8, 1x10, even 2x8 cabs designed to handle hundreds of watts. Is there a sound compromise for that portability and compactness or has the engineering come along as to allow tone to be on par with more typical cab sizes?

Seems like these are good days to be a bass gear geek.

Dont mind the power handling figures they throw out. Displacement is what matters when you want volume. Those speakers may have a high thermal rating at 4khz but that isnt going to product the thump you want.

There are some great cabs around that make use of amazing 8" drivers, but they are not your average speaker.

 

[KJung]

I've still not experienced a 110 or 2 x 8 cab that will cover anythng more than a coffee house folk or jazz gig.

The huge gains in speaker design by Eminence and other speaker manufacturers seems to be focused on 12" and 15" drivers.

There are 112 cabs out now that are just simply amazing, and will blow away many high quality production 210's. Thunderchild, the Bergantino HD112, some of the stuff Low Down Sound is doing (LDS), the fEARful 12/6, Baer ML112, etc., etc.

There are single 15 cabs that can keep up with a good quality 212 cab at this point also.

There are some 6" and 8" drivers that are quite impressive now, but you need 4-6 of them to really crank.

 

[Jim Nazium]

There isn't necessarily a compromise in sound quality. The engineering has come a long way since the 70s, when a lot of the familiar bass guitar cabinet configurations were designed. Drivers with bigger, more durable voice coils that can withstand much longer excursions are available. IMHO, if there's a compromise, it's usually in the price - these high power drivers are not cheap.

 

[CL400Peavey]

... ...

+1 to that post

Audiokinesis
Barefaced Bass
Baer
fEARful/fEARless/greenboy


These designs are pushing the boundaries of what you can achieve in smaller boxes. Their designs/tones are not for everyone, but they offer things you can not get from a commercial cab.

 

[RotoRick]

I've still not experienced a 110 or 2 x 8 cab that will cover anythng more than a coffee house folk or jazz gig.

The huge gains in speaker design by Eminence and other speaker manufacturers seems to be focused on 12" and 15" drivers.

There are 112 cabs out now that are just simply amazing, and will blow away many high quality production 210's. Thunderchild, the Bergantino HD112, some of the stuff Low Down Sound is doing (LDS), the fEARful 12/6, Baer ML112, etc., etc.

There are single 15 cabs that can keep up with a good quality 212 cab at this point also.

There are some 6" and 8" drivers that are quite impressive now, but you need 4-6 of them to really crank.

Thats why instead of getting a 410 cab that is light like Markbass or someone else's I will buy a 210 Mesa powerhouse cab. Then when I can afford it I will buy another and will have a 410 cab that will have a thermal rating of 1200 watts instead of the 600 watt rating of the 410 powerhouse cab. This combo should give me enough thump for what i do.

And I won't have to lug around a cab that weighs 96 pounds. The 210s aren't light either, 69lbs a piece, but they will be worth it in the end.

Light cabs sound great with the wallet size head that is sold with it, but when a big head like M9carbine or other bigboy amp is connected to it it farts out then dies out.

 

[Ewo]

There are 112 cabs out now that are just simply amazing, and will blow away many high quality production 210's. Thunderchild, the Bergantino HD112, some of the stuff Low Down Sound is doing (LDS), the fEARful 12/6, Baer ML112, etc., etc.

The guitar player I work with remarked at our last rehearsal about the tone and volume my single Baer ML112 puts out.

I use a pair for the bar gigs, but one is plenty for rehearsal--and we're playing at normal volume. (Meaning, not ear splitting but not terribly restrained, either.)

 

[iriegnome]

SWR made a henry 8x8 cabinet with all 8's in it. They also made a smaller version with 4x8. Great sounding bass cab's..

 

[CL400Peavey]

Thats why instead of getting a 410 cab that is light like Markbass or someone else's I will buy a 210 Mesa powerhouse cab. Then when I can afford it I will buy another and will have a 410 cab that will have a thermal rating of 1200 watts instead of the 600 watt rating of the 410 powerhouse cab. This combo should give me enough thump for what i do.

Those thermal ratings have no bearing on how loud a cab will go or how much thump it has. In fact two 210's wont really handle anymore power than a 410.

And I won't have to lug around a cab that weighs 96 pounds. The 210s aren't light either, 69lbs a piece, but they will be worth it in the end.

Light cabs sound great with the wallet size head that is sold with it, but when a big head like M9carbine or other bigboy amp is connected to it it farts out then dies out.

Bull spit. There are plenty of cabs that counter this statement. Fart out has nothing to do with how much a cab or head weighs. The design and implementation matter.

 

[KJung]

Thats why instead of getting a 410 cab that is light like Markbass or someone else's I will buy a 210 Mesa powerhouse cab. Then when I can afford it I will buy another and will have a 410 cab that will have a thermal rating of 1200 watts instead of the 600 watt rating of the 410 powerhouse cab. This combo should give me enough thump for what i do.

And I won't have to lug around a cab that weighs 96 pounds. The 210s aren't light either, 69lbs a piece, but they will be worth it in the end.

Light cabs sound great with the wallet size head that is sold with it, but when a big head like M9carbine or other bigboy amp is connected to it it farts out then dies out.

Completely disagree. Thermal rating has little to do with performance, and actually little to do with how a cab handles power and low end.

And, there is NO correlation between weight and performance in amps or speakers these days. IMO you are listening with your ears.

Those Mesa cabs are nice though, but the weight to performance ratio is awful, given what is out there these days.

Don't make the mistake that some others do and try one neo loaded cab and think that is representative of the what is out there. That would be like me walking into a Guitar Center and playing one of those Guitar Center Acoustic cabs and thinking 'man, heavy speakers suck'. Remember that there is just as much variance across SMPS heads and neo cabs as there is across traditional power supply (heavy) heads and ceramic loaded cabs. Some are great, some suck ( or at least, some don't sound particularly good to some players).

 

[lomo]

Regardless of driver, if you want to project low freq at loud volume you need a reasonably large box.
The smallest, lightest cabs to do that today are generally top quality 112s as KJUNG posted.

 

[lomo]

+100. Except I think Ken meant you are listening with your EYES. The Mesa cabs sound good but the weight/performance ratio is pitiful and lags far behind many other manufacturers. If you don't mind the extra weight, their fit, finish and build quality are fantastic. However, there are many other lighter, toneful options in the Mesa price range

Completely disagree. Thermal rating has little to do with performance, and actually little to do with how a cab handles power and low end.

And, there is NO correlation between weight and performance in amps or speakers these days. IMO you are listening with your ears.

Those Mesa cabs are nice though, but the weight to performance ratio is awful, given what is out there these days.

Don't make the mistake that som others do and try one neo loaded cab and think that is representative of the what is out there. That would be like me walking into a Guitar Center and playing one of those Guitar Center Acoustic cabs and thinking 'man, heavy speakers suck'

 

[RotoRick]

Those thermal ratings have no bearing on how loud a cab will go or how much thump it has. In fact two 210's wont really handle anymore power than a 410.



Bull spit. There are plenty of cabs that counter this statement. Fart out has nothing to do with how much a cab or head weighs. The design and implementation matter.

One strike of the E string and that 56 lbs cab would fly across the room. Many people on TB like their heads but not their cabs, wonder why ?

Would love to hook a SVT all tube head to these light cabs and see what they sound like after a gig or two.

There is a reason Mesa doesn't go to these kinds of carry on cabinets, for pure tone and unadulterated thump they don't work.

Don't get me wrong, for what they are they sound good, but you will never compare them side by side with a Mesa cab, the lighter cab will sound like a guitar in comparison.

 

[FourBanger]

Thanks gents, this is the kind of information that satisfies my curiosity on the subject.

 

[CL400Peavey]

One strike of the E string and that 56 lbs cab would fly across the room. Many people on TB like their heads but not their cabs, wonder why ?

Would love to hook a SVT all tube head to these light cabs and see what they sound like after a gig or two.

There is a reason Mesa doesn't go to these kinds of carry on cabinets, for pure tone and unadulterated thump they don't work.

Don't get me wrong, for what they are they sound good, but you will never compare them side by side with a Mesa cab, the lighter cab will sound like a guitar in comparison.

:scowl:

Sorry you are talking out of hole other than your mouth.

My two main amps are a 400 watt all tube amp or a 1600 watt rack set up. I play both through a 35 pound 15/6. It has never moved an inch on me, and will pound any cab 2-3 times its weight and imho sound better. For that matter fEARful will go lower and higher than commercial cabs.

 

[RotoRick]

:scowl:

Sorry you are talking out of hole other than your mouth.

My two main amps are a 400 watt all tube amp or a 1600 watt rack set up. I play both through a 35 pound 15/6. It has never moved an inch on me, and will pound any cab 2-3 times its weight and imho sound better. For that matter fEARful will go lower and higher than commercial cabs.

Apples to Oranges, not talking about fearful cabs, were talking about commercial cabs available everywhere, not in just a few places around the country.

And you said it right, thats your opinion, when the stones or dream theatre or some like that uses those homemade looking cabs let me know.

 

[RotoRick]

:scowl:

Sorry you are talking out of hole other than your mouth.

My two main amps are a 400 watt all tube amp or a 1600 watt rack set up. I play both through a 35 pound 15/6. It has never moved an inch on me, and will pound any cab 2-3 times its weight and imho sound better. For that matter fEARful will go lower and higher than commercial cabs.

2nd of all wasn't a literal analogy, was poking fun that little cabs are nice if all you have is a 2 door honda civic to cart them around with, but they will never sound as good as a big Ampeg or Mesa Cab.

We will talk Fearful when I see them on a big stage.

 

[bgavin]

+1 to that post

Audiokinesis
Barefaced Bass
Baer
fEARful/fEARless/greenboy

These designs are pushing the boundaries of what you can achieve in smaller boxes. Their designs/tones are not for everyone, but they offer things you can not get from a commercial cab.

I certainly agree with this statement.

Commercial cabs are a joke.
They are nothing more than speakers in a box, designed by marketing people to a price point and 'acceptable look.'

You forgot Bill Fitzmaurice, who broke FAR more ground than putting speakers in boxes.
His horn designs are breathtaking in their elegance and efficiency.

 

[KJung]

One strike of the E string and that 56 lbs cab would fly across the room. Many people on TB like their heads but not their cabs, wonder why ?

Would love to hook a SVT all tube head to these light cabs and see what they sound like after a gig or two.

There is a reason Mesa doesn't go to these kinds of carry on cabinets, for pure tone and unadulterated thump they don't work.

Don't get me wrong, for what they are they sound good, but you will never compare them side by side with a Mesa cab, the lighter cab will sound like a guitar in comparison.

No offense, but your posts are either based on some sort of in-going anger or bias, or something, or more likely, trying one cab at Guitar Center that happened to be lightweight, and then assuming 'they all sound that way'.

Again, no big deal, and as always, use what you like and what you want. Just want to make sure other readers get a more full picture of the cabs that are out there right now.

Again, there is no overall, average difference between neo and ceramic cabs in tone. Put 20 different brands and designs of ceramic cabs and compare them in a blind test with all else equal to 20 different brand and designs of neo/lightweight cabs, and no one would identify the 'type of cab' beyond the chance level.

Again, I can see where you dig those Mesa 10's... nice boxes. I can also see why you weren't particularly impressed with a given Markbass cab. I totally dig some, and think others are pretty mediocre.... thin low end, cheap tweeters.

Extended those experiencs to include 'all lightweight cabs versus heavier gear' is not really that helpful to TB readers.

 

[JimmyM]

Darryl Jones uses a Meyer cab and an 810e. But the day I pick out gear because someone famous uses it is the day I quit the business. And though they only weigh 25 lbs each, these cabs had no problem with my SVT, with one caveat...can't blast the SVT through them, but who wants to? That's how you go deaf.

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