Unrepresented
Something Borderline Offensive
I am not a tax expert either, but the way the revenue collected is spent will be written into the bill. If there's a specific earmark, it must be spent that way.
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Smoking insanity
- Thread starter t77mackie
- Start date
I am not a tax expert either, but the way the revenue collected is spent will be written into the bill. If there's a specific earmark, it must be spent that way.
A small bout in the hospital with pneumonia is probably $10 grand in hospital costs. I gah-rohn-tee that your average smoker isn't generating $10k in tobacco taxes towards that hospital bill.
So... the little New England town I live in next to Worcester, MA has enacted new laws and regulations regarding the sale of tobacco products.
To start off with, tax has increased 20% to $3.01 on packs of cigarettes. Tax on roll-your-own products has doubled. Last year I was buying a 6 oz. can of tobacco for $13 - then one day I go to buy one and it was $26 - the frickin' price doubled over night!! This is an effort to raise $260 million to add to the state's budget.
Bear in mind that in the past the state has hiked cig tax to, "pay for and make freely available smoking cessation products." Yeah, about 5% of the revenue generated went to that program. The rest went to pay for the Big Dig and to line pockets.
The new town regulations include:
1. Cigars must be sold in packs of 4 or more
2. Single cigars must be over $2.50
3. It is illegal to sell 'blunt wraps' - but apparently it's OK to sell 'glassware' at the smoke shop (Shhhhhh! Don't say anything or they'll take that too!)
4. Stores may no longer have 'roll your own' machines - Stores were getting automatic rolling machines and customers were able to pick out the tobacco they wanted and have the machine roll it all up in a jiffy.
5. Any store that has a pharmacy in it (WalMart / supermarkets) may no longer sell tobacco products - So WalMart no longer sells butts, but the gas station and the smoke shop right next door does.
6. No vending machines (I have no problem with this one)
7. Stores cannot give free samples - including with manufacturer coupons
8. No store may sell packs of cigarettes for less than what the government says is the minimum price
9. No store may sell packs of cigarettes that contain less than 20 cigarettes
Smokers are getting porked again without any say in the matter. Smokers are a voting minority and what politician in their right mind would stick up for dirty, blue collar, lung cancer infested, child corrupting, hop-heads? Smells like a cross between a dirty ashtray and taxation without fair representation. When the people get upset about the government bilking them for money by raising tolls on the Pike, the next target is always the smokers.
They say, as they always do, they want to raise money for smoking cessation programs, they want to make people quit smoking, they want to keep tobacco products away from kids, they don't want people smoking pot.
They say...
Comments?
Is your little town on the Spencer side, the West Boylston side, the Shrewsbury side, or the Auburn side of Worcester?
Ok...I'm going to come off a bit arrogant but the truth can be tough to deal with sometimes...
As an ex smoker for 30+ years and a Healthcare worker, I have ZERO compassion for "the smoker"
I do feel badly that smokers are vilified perhaps 100 times more than they should be and taxed "to death" for continuing TO CHOOSE to use tobacco
But that's what kills the argument...
You CHOOSE to continue to use some form of tobacco...
If you're THAT bothered by any of it...
QUIT
Thanks...all done here
Goodnight
As an ex smoker for 30+ years and a Healthcare worker, I have ZERO compassion for "the smoker"
I do feel badly that smokers are vilified perhaps 100 times more than they should be and taxed "to death" for continuing TO CHOOSE to use tobacco
But that's what kills the argument...
You CHOOSE to continue to use some form of tobacco...
If you're THAT bothered by any of it...
QUIT
Thanks...all done here
Goodnight
Though not every smoker will have a bout with pneumonia and if they do it probably won't be very often.
The tax bill on 20 day over a few decades will certainly add up!
This is a silly argument.
It's like the price of skateboards tripling over-night for no reason. Hell, you CHOOSE whether or not to ride a skateboard, so if you don't like the fact that everybody is being forceably shafted by the government, just don't ride one. But either way you're still being shafted.
Yes, it's capitalism, vote with your wallet, but this only works in a free market, when the government in controlling the price and inflating it artificially, there isn't anything you can do about it other than what they want you to do.
On an entertaining note, the Australian government is crazy over-the-top with regulation on anything, but cigarettes in particular is just hilarious. I mean, I'm sure you've mostly seen the plain packaging etc. and outrageous prices (70%+ of the purchase price is tax, before sales tax), but just recently was a good one.
Cigarettes in Australia routinely sell for $20-25 a pack at the bottom end. A company started up wanting to sell budget cigarettes (since no branding or advertising is allowed for tobacco products in Australia, might as well take advantage of it). They were going to undercut the market by a few dollars because they could afford to, balance the scales for smokers a bit and probably make a fortune.
They were banned. I can't find an article at the moment, but I find it a little scary that the government can ban a company from operating just because they don't like what they do, and get away with it just because the company was making cigarettes.
Haha, all things in moderation
Really, I guess it depends how much you smoke, of either. Also, the price of marijuana in Australia is fairly average by US standards, the price of cigarettes however is considerably higher.
If I still smoked I'd be right with you. I really would. I understand. And I agree, it's extortion. Robbery.
Now that that's out of the way......
Quit. Just quit. You are spending lots of money to ruin your health.
Around here they get $11 for a pack of Camels. Pack a day? 4 grand a year. Think about it.
Now that that's out of the way......
Quit. Just quit. You are spending lots of money to ruin your health.
Around here they get $11 for a pack of Camels. Pack a day? 4 grand a year. Think about it.
True on that. I'm thinking that this years drought is going to be a lot worse than last year. Compounding it is Kansas demanding we follow the water compact and sending the Republic River to them. Plus not really having any reserves like we did at the start of last year. Lincoln is talking of going on restrictions this Spring.
The water to Kansas has me confused though. Since their government has declared that science is wrong and the earth is actually flat and the rest of the solar system revolves around us, where does all their water go.
But after smoking for forty two years before I got sick and almost got dead, I think doing away with the whole tobacco thing would make for a better world. I haven't had nor wanted a smoke since Xmas Eve 2002.
So... the little New England town I live in next to Worcester, MA has enacted new laws and regulations regarding the sale of tobacco products.
To start off with, tax has increased 20% to $3.01 on packs of cigarettes. Tax on roll-your-own products has doubled. Last year I was buying a 6 oz. can of tobacco for $13 - then one day I go to buy one and it was $26 - the frickin' price doubled over night!! This is an effort to raise $260 million to add to the state's budget.
Bear in mind that in the past the state has hiked cig tax to, "pay for and make freely available smoking cessation products." Yeah, about 5% of the revenue generated went to that program. The rest went to pay for the Big Dig and to line pockets.
The new town regulations include:
1. Cigars must be sold in packs of 4 or more
2. Single cigars must be over $2.50
3. It is illegal to sell 'blunt wraps' - but apparently it's OK to sell 'glassware' at the smoke shop (Shhhhhh! Don't say anything or they'll take that too!)
4. Stores may no longer have 'roll your own' machines - Stores were getting automatic rolling machines and customers were able to pick out the tobacco they wanted and have the machine roll it all up in a jiffy.
5. Any store that has a pharmacy in it (WalMart / supermarkets) may no longer sell tobacco products - So WalMart no longer sells butts, but the gas station and the smoke shop right next door does.
6. No vending machines (I have no problem with this one)
7. Stores cannot give free samples - including with manufacturer coupons
8. No store may sell packs of cigarettes for less than what the government says is the minimum price
9. No store may sell packs of cigarettes that contain less than 20 cigarettes
Smokers are getting porked again without any say in the matter. Smokers are a voting minority and what politician in their right mind would stick up for dirty, blue collar, lung cancer infested, child corrupting, hop-heads? Smells like a cross between a dirty ashtray and taxation without fair representation. When the people get upset about the government bilking them for money by raising tolls on the Pike, the next target is always the smokers.
They say, as they always do, they want to raise money for smoking cessation programs, they want to make people quit smoking, they want to keep tobacco products away from kids, they don't want people smoking pot.
They say...
Comments?
You could live in the midwest. So its not all bad
are you seriously going to sit here and try to tell me that the money the government confiscates thru sin taxes on tobacco are being sent to private for profit health care agencies to cover the costs of smokers long term health care?
cuz i got some ocean front property in arizona....
The argument about smoking and healthcare costs is bunk. Particularly if these arguments are made by fat asses, or people who drink, play rugby, like bar fights, ride motorcycles, skydive, mountain climb, parasail, do drugs, drink soda, bang other guy's wives or any other activity which increases the odds of you needing medical care.
And when these arguments are made by people who don't even pay for their own health care it's pretty much like a guy on welfare bitching about how much tax liability Donald Trump avoids.
And when these arguments are made by people who don't even pay for their own health care it's pretty much like a guy on welfare bitching about how much tax liability Donald Trump avoids.
We have socialised medicine, some tax from tobacco products goes towards healthcare (though IIRC it doesn't completelly cover the cost of smoking related illnesses).
While we don't pay per visit, beyond vice based taxes the money is pooled in from taxation on income, so you pay into it while working.
Pretty sure soda doesn't have the risk factors associated with smoking (unless you're on 20 a day, sodas that is).
As per Rugby, don't know what it's like in the US but my club provides basic first aid and medical support as well as physio, my membership includes insurance from the union for anything more serious. There are some cases where you could end up needing to use standard medical facilities, but those are pretty rare instances. There is a risk of later life complications, as with any contact sport, though the incidents are also significantly lower than that of smoking. Though being physically active will also reduce the instances of some medical issues.
I can't comment on other sports because I'm simply not all that familiar with them.
Obesity is certainly a growing problem.
Well, (at least so far) we do NOT have socialized medicine here. We actually pay for our own insurance premiums out of our pockets.
To address your argument though, since tax money pays for your health care, do you have the same concerns about folks who drive on tax payer funded roads driving heavy trucks? What about the unnecessary things in every other general aspect of tax payer funded projects which raise the cost? Or is it just health care that has you concerned? And is it just smoking that concerns you about health care? Smoking is NOT the only thing that drives up the cost you know.
Well, (at least so far) we do NOT have socialized medicine here. We actually pay for our own insurance premiums out of our pockets.
To address your argument though, since tax money pays for your health care, do you have the same concerns about folks who drive on tax payer funded roads driving heavy trucks? What about the unnecessary things in every other general aspect of tax payer funded projects which raise the cost? Or is it just health care that has you concerned? And is it just smoking that concerns you about health care? Smoking is NOT the only thing that drives up the cost you know.
I know you don't, being a US-centric forum, that's why I highlighted the point at the start of my post.
We collectively pay for healthcare instead of turning hospitals into profit centers and funding medical insurance, which is one of the biggest profit makers
.Road tax isn't flat rate, heavy goods vehicles are taxed on different bands from cars, motorbikes etc.
I have an issue with many of the unnecessary things on which tax money is spent (the joke that is the Edinburgh Tram system for instance).
I know smoking isn't the only driver, however it is certainly one of the larger contributers. I'm not even all that bothered about it, though I can see why some people do take issue with it. My original comment in this thread was that, I'm a non-smoker that doesn't understand how people can afford to smoke over here!
I can't find that thread I was speaking of earlier, but I did find something in regard to the Canadian tax system.
Invalid Link Removed
This page has a pdf that shows how the federal taxes are distributed through transfer payments.
Invalid Link Removed
Interesting page showing income and expenditures of taxes collected.
Invalid Link Removed
One more page showing how cigarettes are taxed in Canada. (From NSRA, of all places)
This should give our U.S. friends an idea how our system works . (or doesn't
)
Invalid Link Removed
This page has a pdf that shows how the federal taxes are distributed through transfer payments.
Invalid Link Removed
Interesting page showing income and expenditures of taxes collected.
Invalid Link Removed
One more page showing how cigarettes are taxed in Canada. (From NSRA, of all places)
This should give our U.S. friends an idea how our system works . (or doesn't
)
