So... I got fired today (warning: long)

[ZAR14]

Sorry but I had to bail halfway through.
And not being a fan of Rap or Hip-Hop, I cant offer any advice pertaining to that particular playing style.
I can offer, Do what you can to improve on the areas that you think are lacking....Practice, practice and more practice

 

[BrentD]

I'd be curious for more details about the guitarist's point of view. When I read the original post I get the sense that the rapper was asking around for feedback, not that he was turning his critical eye to you from the start - only when the guitarist complained about it did he seem to want to take any action.

I haven't heard the group so maybe there just isn't a good fit, but I'd want to know what the drummer thinks too. I also would like to know why, in hip-hop or rap, the guitar as an instrument would ever get any kind of authority over the bass. My (albeit limited) experience is that the bass line and drums are going to carry the groove, and the guitar will most often be a small element of interest. The bass wasn't antagonizing the guitar, the guitar was antagonizing the bass!

 

[rtslinger]

All I will add is people at the show told him that "like something in the background was missing" That part imo is bull no one notices the bass until you stop playing period, for that matter most of the guys you are in a band with have no idea even what the bass line is. I have been in an out of bands since I was 13 years old and I am 59 and I can play a bass line for any who isn't a bass player and they will have no idea what the heck song you're are playing unless it is like Under pressure, that has a signature bassline. Walk away but take that excuse with a grain of salt. Keep serious about your studies and your business plan, work to become a success, because being a Professional musician is like this

rarely do you make it to the top and the chances of making a profit playing music is really rare.

 

[Mike Marshall]

Dont worry about it, you will end up better off in the end. I have always worked and at 64 I am much better off than the guys I know that did only music and some of those guys played in well know national acts and on many records. The chance this guy makes it big is at most minimal and if you don't make it big its a struggle. In fact the guy next to me in the picture played drums on some of the all time great Rock records and he struggles financially today.

 

[Nev375]

Don't worry about it. Creative types and BL's sometimes don't know what they want or don't know what the issue is. If something doesn't feel right they just make a change and hope it works. Don't take it personal.

If they come back later and want to give you another shot, I'd say go for it, but keep your expectations in check. All you can do is keep playing and keep learning and cherish every experience and opportunity you get along the way.

 

[TerriblePeril]

Hey all, I need to vent a bit and welcome any feedback you'd have to share.

TL;DR: Got fired from a serious band because of issues with the "feel" of my playing, and concerns that I wasn't committed to pursuing music professionally.

A few months ago, a rapper and friend of mine from college posted that he was looking for a bassist on FB. I told him I was interested, and he gave me songs to learn. We started rehearsing as a band, with a guitarist and drummer who've played together before. I've never played in a hip-hop band before, and my playing was rusty since I hadn't practiced consistently during my studies.

I got some feedback from the sound engineer at the studio we rehearsed at gave me feedback to "step back" from the drums and guitar like on an Erykah Badu track. I took the advice seriously and practiced playing looser, so I could get the feel right.

Over the next few months, we practiced weekly leading up to our gig, and everything sounded great. I'm open to honest feedback since I want to improve as a bassist. I tried to be conscious of the pocket and lock in the groove with the drummer. We sounded great according to the sound engineer. Our first show was awesome, everything was flawless and high energy, and we almost sold out the venue. People had a great time.

A week after the show, the rapper said he wanted to go over the performance and identify what went well and what could be improved on. We all agreed that we should meet up and talk about it. There wasn't much activity going on since then, and I knew we had a show the next month, so I had a feeling something was up. The rapper texted me asking if I could take a call and I said sure.

We chatted about life for a bit; then he got into what the deal was. He got feedback from people at the show, and the band members that the feel was a bit off, like something in the background was missing.

The guitarist told him that my bass playing wasn't cohesive with the guitar and vocals and that the bass was "almost antagonistic" to the guitar. He praised me for my attitude and dedication, and he said that he felt that I'm more focused on my career and that it seems like I'm not interested in professional music.

It's true, I am focused on building up my business, but it's not true that I don't want to play music professionally. That's been a dream of mine for so long, and I was happy to have found serious, talented musicians to perform with. I'm aware of the areas I need to improve on, and I honestly believe that I have the capability.

With an upcoming show and more planned in the next year, he was concerned that I wouldn't be able to nail all the new songs fast enough, given that time and money for rehearsal spaces is short. His career is taking off pretty fast, and I was 100% dedicated to going on tour if the opportunity presented itself.

I felt it was unfair that this was a decision made behind the scenes, instead of in a discussion where I could address concerns. He reiterated that my playing was technically good enough, but the feel wasn't quite there. I told him I'm aware that I'm rusty and the style of music was uncharted territory for me, and that I was professional, learned all the songs true to the bass lines on the recordings, and even made a couple of new songs on the spot that sounded great.

It's true that chemistry still needed to develop, but in the few months we've been rehearsing, every single session sounded better and better. From the first jam to the show, I've consistently cut down my playing and improved my groove.

I also said to him that it's his project and if he feels that I'm not there yet, it's his decision, and I respect it. I don't want to burn a bridge, and he mentioned that he also didn't want to close a door for future collaboration.

I'm trying to make sense of everything since I truly want concrete feedback on how I can be a better player. I like when people are honest when something isn't right so that headache can be avoided in the long run.

Maybe I'm biased since I'm an econ graduate and have worked in business environments, but if you're hired for the job it means you're good enough, and if issues arise, you have periodic evaluations for coworkers to give you feedback on what you're doing well and what needs work. If my playing was that bad, I feel like it should have been addressed before the show.

They saw me develop over a short period of time; why is it just now that they don't think I can get it right when I would have had more time to get it down?. The artist decided to go with another bassist who'll have to learn all the songs in a month, with less rehearsal time than we had.

Groove is crucial especially for R&B/hip-hop music, and if I wasn't bringing it, then it does nobody any favors to keep me in the band. Music is an emotional process, and it's hard to articulate many things. Maybe I won't be able to get an answer that I'm hoping for beyond "it just doesn't feel right".

Anyway, I needed to get that off my chest and into the open. If you've read this far, I congratulate you! I know I'll bounce back and find another project - I'm working with a producer tomorrow and the rapper was happy to connect me with his main beat maker, as well.

I guess what I'm curious about is:

1. How do I learn from this to become a better player and avoid this scenario in the future?
2. Should I work with this artist again in the future, or is it like breaking up with an SO and things will never be the same?
3. What have you guys done when you've been canned?

Thanks for reading, I'd love to get your opinion and read other bassist's stories.

That bias sounds like sound logic, honestly. And I will take it to heart, as I have other fantastic "band politics" tips from these forums.

I think there are situations where an individual on the chopping block should not be invited to the discussion leading to the decision to drop the blade, so to speak. This is not one of those situations.

It would have been nicer to have discussed progress and concerns with you sooner. But often nice is not how it goes in bands or business.

 

[lamarjones]

Everyone is trying to defend you, which I guess is kind of nice on TB, and in your original post you talk about your own rustiness. Half the people in this thread are already put off by hip hop. So it would make sense that there is the cheerleading going on.....

That said, you said you want to play at a professional level. What you need to hear is that someone wasn't feeling it. MAYBE it was from a visual perspective but you need to be open that it's from a sonic perspective. RnB and Hip Hop are no joke, the way you swing and such is huge and most Country and Western types would have zero idea on that. The same as most RnB players would have zero idea how good bluegrass should be.

Sounds harsh, but if you wanna play at a high level, you can't pay attention to these guys who are gonna bat for you without any evidence at all. You need to seek out any issue you may have and correct it BEFORE you get in a position to utilize it. From your own words you were being apologetic about your rustiness, but you can't ask others to assume you will take care of that. Most people never do.

This happens, and for most high level players, instances like these are what make them better. You get to choose what you do with it.

 

[DirtDog]

. While I haven't been fired from a gig yet (knock on wood), I have definitely been criticized on certain things about my playing. I would sometimes feel guilty of sucking but then I realized that these guys want to see me improve and don't want me out of the band. It's thinking like that which helps you grow, not the negative side of it. Grow from this, spend time in the shed, and improve your feel and timing as a musician.

I hear ya. I've been fired once but had nothing to do with my playing. The "artist" fired the entire band and took things in another direction. And while I haven't been criticized directly on playing or tone, the one comment I got once in the past when I was just starting out and that changed my outlook was: "Dude, you gotta play it like you own it; play it with confidence". had nothing to do with note choices or the tone of my rig. That stuck with me - whether it was complex part or a simple part - play it with authority! No hesitation. doesn't matter if you're a virtuoso or a rank beginner: Play it with authority.

 

[lamarjones]

Yeah man, I got the play it with authority, too I'm behind the beat, I need to move around more, and even one time my bass is too natural looking and I need a pick although that was a metal band. Corrected almost all of them.

 

[ZAR14]

Your career should be your #1 priority.
Pipedreams of being the "Next Big Thing" should be just that...Dreams!

 

[cnltb]

Relax and move on.

 

[bdplaid]

Basically what I'm hearing, from my 40-year career's worth of learning, is that this gig might have been a bad fit. I've played with a lot of bands, and have done studio works for a long while, and God help me if I ever have to do a rap or country gig; it's just not in my blood.

What would i do? Chalk it up to experience and find another gig better suited to who I am as a player.

Want to get better? play with people better than you, in a genre that you like.

Play with the guy again? sure. And charge him for the pleasure after you've established yourself as a first-call player.

In short, pro music is a cut throat business, you'll probably never get a straight answer when you ask for one. It's not like any business you've ever studied in Econ. It's dirty and back-biting. No one ever tells the truth to your face. Unless they're drunk. and maybe not even then.

It's like politics: if you want a friend, get a dog.

But none of this stopped me, and doesn't stop a lot of us. Grow some thick skin and get another gig, and then another, then another. Again, pro music is unlike any other business.

 

[Bassa Nova]

Maybe they simply found someone they feel more comfortable with. :/

I cant say for sure, but it is likely this. If they didn't, they would not have cut you loose yet. Like Pitfall Charlie, you don't let go of the first vine without holding the second.

Keep your head up. Keep working. There will be other gigs.

 

[And I]

I always try to keep in mind that things happen for a reason. Either this band needs to make this mistake so they can realize that you were the right bassist in the first place and ask you back (good thing no bridges were burned!), or they just freed you up to find the project which is truly right for you. Best of luck.

 

[chilliwilli]

I didn't read any of the replies to your OP cause I didn't want them to influence what I'm about to say, but look.....I'm gonna be 100% honest and a few points will seem mean, but I want you to read it all cause I'm really doing it to be helpful and it is going to take a long time to type on an IPhone lol.

1. It's business, don't take it personal. The fact that you even thought "Should I work with this artist again?" is beyond ridiculous. You typed about a lot of stuff, but the fact of the matter is you weren't good enough. That's it nothing more, nothing less. He came at you the way he did cause you guys are friends and he knew you would take it to heart. Judging by your long winded post about losing a gig you weren't qualified for, he was right.

2. It's your fault and no one else's. You said you weren't even playing or practicing much when you got the call. What did you expect? Good for you for pursuing an education, but if it is so difficult that you can't find time to practice then forget playing a pro gig until well after you are done.

3. Actually I take some of that that back. If you were serious about bass and knew how to practice efficiently then you could have found 30 mins a day to at least maintain your skill level. If you aren't even playing your bass than your friend is 100% right, you don't really want to play music professionally. Everyone has dreams, but they will never come true without action.

4. Playing hip hop is different. There are also different sub genres too, same as R&B. Motown is not the same as New Jack Swing and Crunk isn't the same G-funk. You don't sound like you listen to hip hop genres of music much either. If that is the case.....again, what did you expect?

5. Contrary to a popular belief held by some music elitists there is no such thing as a genre of music that is easy to play because playing the right notes has nothing to do with sounding authentic. Hip hop producers and artists can be especially demanding too. Maybe you went in with the wrong mindset and thought your past musical experience would make this gig easy and you got surprised when you found Hip Hop wasn't as easy as you thought it would be?

6. You have to realize this is an entire genre of music that came about mostly via sampling. The source material they were used to dealing with was a snippet of a great piece of music that was already mixed, mastered, etc. using the best take and using the best equipment. Even today the genre makes extensive use of professional grade instrument sample packs.

7. What this means for you is that any live instrument needs to sound top notch right of the bat too. I'll never forget the time a producer ripped into me cause my notes weren't the right length or the time I made a synth bass patch for a beat maker and he said "No f*** that, that s*** sounds Casio!" lol. Oh and many of them will straight up lose their minds if they hear any ghost notes too.

Anyway if you want you can PM me. I don't really play professionally anymore due to moving for work, but unlike 90% of the bass players out there I've actually played live bass guitar in the hip hop world, so let me know if you want my help or want me to listen to something.

 

[jelly6466]

I have never heard that the bass was "almost antagonistic" to the guitar before, that tells me two things; a) the guitar player wants a buddy in the band to play bass or b) the guitar player has absolutely no idea what the hell they are talking about. Either one would want me to leave.

 

[Wavy]

It feels bad to be fired, whether by a band, a client, a boss, a friend, a girlfriend, or a doctor.

1. Feel bad for a day or two. That's natural. No more than two days.
2. Go to work. It may take you years to get the feel... and sadly,
3. You may never get it. We've all played with technically proficient players who will never feel the music, regardless of style.
4. Realize that what the rapper said is merely his point of view. And as others have typed, might not be true. A point of view is neither right nor wrong... it's merely a point of view. Do not use another point of view as a whip on yourself, as tempting as that is when you're bummed about being fired.

 

[chilliwilli]

I have never heard that the bass was "almost antagonistic" to the guitar before, that tells me two things; a) the guitar player wants a buddy in the band to play bass or b) the guitar player has absolutely no idea what the hell they are talking about. Either one would want me to leave.

I disagree, the space and counterpoint between the bass and guitar can be very important in some R&B/rap genres and Reggae too. Guitar players may be required to play licks or more melodic parts throughout the piece as opposed to strumming chords especially if there is also a synthesizer and/or keys on the gig. The bass can absolutely clash with the guitar and ruin the feel. This isn't like playing the changes together in a Rock group. If anything that comment makes me think these guys know exactly what they are doing.

 

[dregsfan]

I'm reading a short book by Steve Morse called "A Journey Through Life With Guitar In Hand" (Essays And Insights On Being A Musician).
For being such an intelligent person and a brilliant composer and guitarist (Dixie Dregs, & Steve Morse Band........... not Deep Purple), he's got loads of common sense and couldn't be more down to earth, but could not be more of a professional as well.
Anyone working/participating in the "band business" would do themselves a favor by reading it.
Very real world stuff that really applies.

 

[Tom Baker]

I read some of this...but not all 5 pages. Sounds like a fit issue so don't take it so hard. By fit it could be style, personality, appearance, other, etc. If they were ever serious about fixing the problem it would have been brought up long before the gig but it wasn't so they were already looking for a replacement. Typical band bullsh!t.