So... I got fired today (warning: long)

[RustyAxe]

I was only "canned" once ... and that text (yeah, dumbass prima donna used text) came as I was driving home from my second gig with these guys, wondering how I'd put it when I told 'em tomorrow I was quitting after one rehearsal and two gigs. I replied "okay" ... and that was that. It probably remains in my memory mostly because it was a singular incident in my life (never fired from anything ... jobs or music). I've certainly not played any less (actually more, because other, better opportunities arose). Life goes on ... gigs come and go.

 

[wr3ncher]

Hey all, I need to vent a bit and welcome any feedback you'd have to share.

TL;DR: Got fired from a serious band because of issues with the "feel" of my playing, and concerns that I wasn't committed to pursuing music professionally.

A few months ago, a rapper and friend of mine from college posted that he was looking for a bassist on FB. I told him I was interested, and he gave me songs to learn. We started rehearsing as a band, with a guitarist and drummer who've played together before. I've never played in a hip-hop band before, and my playing was rusty since I hadn't practiced consistently during my studies.

I got some feedback from the sound engineer at the studio we rehearsed at gave me feedback to "step back" from the drums and guitar like on an Erykah Badu track. I took the advice seriously and practiced playing looser, so I could get the feel right.

Over the next few months, we practiced weekly leading up to our gig, and everything sounded great. I'm open to honest feedback since I want to improve as a bassist. I tried to be conscious of the pocket and lock in the groove with the drummer. We sounded great according to the sound engineer. Our first show was awesome, everything was flawless and high energy, and we almost sold out the venue. People had a great time.

A week after the show, the rapper said he wanted to go over the performance and identify what went well and what could be improved on. We all agreed that we should meet up and talk about it. There wasn't much activity going on since then, and I knew we had a show the next month, so I had a feeling something was up. The rapper texted me asking if I could take a call and I said sure.

We chatted about life for a bit; then he got into what the deal was. He got feedback from people at the show, and the band members that the feel was a bit off, like something in the background was missing.

The guitarist told him that my bass playing wasn't cohesive with the guitar and vocals and that the bass was "almost antagonistic" to the guitar. He praised me for my attitude and dedication, and he said that he felt that I'm more focused on my career and that it seems like I'm not interested in professional music.

It's true, I am focused on building up my business, but it's not true that I don't want to play music professionally. That's been a dream of mine for so long, and I was happy to have found serious, talented musicians to perform with. I'm aware of the areas I need to improve on, and I honestly believe that I have the capability.

With an upcoming show and more planned in the next year, he was concerned that I wouldn't be able to nail all the new songs fast enough, given that time and money for rehearsal spaces is short. His career is taking off pretty fast, and I was 100% dedicated to going on tour if the opportunity presented itself.

I felt it was unfair that this was a decision made behind the scenes, instead of in a discussion where I could address concerns. He reiterated that my playing was technically good enough, but the feel wasn't quite there. I told him I'm aware that I'm rusty and the style of music was uncharted territory for me, and that I was professional, learned all the songs true to the bass lines on the recordings, and even made a couple of new songs on the spot that sounded great.

It's true that chemistry still needed to develop, but in the few months we've been rehearsing, every single session sounded better and better. From the first jam to the show, I've consistently cut down my playing and improved my groove.

I also said to him that it's his project and if he feels that I'm not there yet, it's his decision, and I respect it. I don't want to burn a bridge, and he mentioned that he also didn't want to close a door for future collaboration.

I'm trying to make sense of everything since I truly want concrete feedback on how I can be a better player. I like when people are honest when something isn't right so that headache can be avoided in the long run.

Maybe I'm biased since I'm an econ graduate and have worked in business environments, but if you're hired for the job it means you're good enough, and if issues arise, you have periodic evaluations for coworkers to give you feedback on what you're doing well and what needs work. If my playing was that bad, I feel like it should have been addressed before the show.

They saw me develop over a short period of time; why is it just now that they don't think I can get it right when I would have had more time to get it down?. The artist decided to go with another bassist who'll have to learn all the songs in a month, with less rehearsal time than we had.

Groove is crucial especially for R&B/hip-hop music, and if I wasn't bringing it, then it does nobody any favors to keep me in the band. Music is an emotional process, and it's hard to articulate many things. Maybe I won't be able to get an answer that I'm hoping for beyond "it just doesn't feel right".

Anyway, I needed to get that off my chest and into the open. If you've read this far, I congratulate you! I know I'll bounce back and find another project - I'm working with a producer tomorrow and the rapper was happy to connect me with his main beat maker, as well.

I guess what I'm curious about is:

1. How do I learn from this to become a better player and avoid this scenario in the future?
2. Should I work with this artist again in the future, or is it like breaking up with an SO and things will never be the same?
3. What have you guys done when you've been canned?

Thanks for reading, I'd love to get your opinion and read other bassist's stories.

Treat it like a gf that dumped you... move on. You didn't get to start for them being mediocre. You may have got fired because creative "genius" felt there was room for more, or they just are a clique. Immediately put yourself back out on the map. Don't let one ***hole bring you down.

 

[BobDeRosa]

Awfully sorry about that, Jaguar. Getting fired never feels good.

A couple things occur to me. First, you implied that the rapper was a full-time musician who sees himself as a pro. I'm not sure what "business" you're building, but I'm inferring that it's not a professional bass-playing career (please correct me if I'm wrong).

The one thing we need to realize about pros is that they will always seek out the "best available" bandmate talent; that usually means another pro, or at least another player who is perceived to have done what it takes to achieve a high level of playing ability. You may have been hired initially because you're a friend, but chances are, the rapper was always surveying the scene to see how well you were cutting it and if maybe there was someone a little more appropriate for the role. This is not to say that you're not a good player, or maybe even a great one. But for some reason the leader thought that this new guy was more appropriate for the role.

But I also have a question. You also mentioned that you were ready to drop everything to go on tour. Unless I was wrong above about the business you're building (that is, you DO intend to become a pro bassist), if that took place, what would happen to the business you're building, and how committed to it are you really?

 

[morgansterne]

I was fired from a band for not being punk enough or committed enough, could have been either way. I certainly didn't fit the image when the new drummer came on board and wanted to go strictly punk, and the songs I wrote for the group didn't fit the direction he wanted to go. But also they were guys in their mid 30's wanting to "make it big" by playing at showcases that were pay to play. I refused to participate in those.

So maybe them firing you is not really related to your musicianship at all. It wasn't in my case.

 

[karl_em_all]

Don't worry about it man. He probably just bought a new laptop or something.

 

[phillybass101]

I've been there, done that. They have a Friend or Family Member they want to bring in. Take the High Road and keep it moving. Something else will come up. Getting fired happens to the best of us. I've been fired and still found other projects to play. It's all a part of the Game. I wouldn't be too concerned and would continue at growing as a player. You don't really need them.

 

[bassike]

I read the whole thing and it sucks, but like someone else said, bands come and go.
in music you will find tons of flaky and weird people, I once audition for a guy, because I did like his music, and after talking I explained to him that I could not give him the time he requires for his project, because I was already playing in a band.
the guy kept begging me to play with him for about a year, then I decided to quit my band and go play with him.
after playing with him a couple of songs, he tells me that I was soo bad that I if I want to play with him, I would need to quit my job, in order to practice all day long, taking short breaks to eat, and keep practicing, and maybe,I could get to a decent level to be able to play with him. I think he was upset cause I didn't wanna play with him at the beginning and he wanted to get back at me.
I also used to be the BL of a band, and the guitar player used to tell me that I was very good, then one day I made a comment that everyone was responsible to learn their own parts. and then the jam after he mention that I should take bass lessons.

 

[Honch]

This, in bold.

It hits the nail on the head. I used to work as both a music journalist and as A&R for a major UK label. If and when he hits big he won't have a "band" anymore. He'll have seasoned session players from his genre of music that can take his vision to the next level.

Pretty much ALL of the musicians who will have helped him along the way will be jettisoned at some stage of the journey. And believe me when I tell you, it's far harder getting canned when you've walked most of that journey with someone only to be let go when the goal is within touching distance.

I'm in a 7 pc horn band doing Chicago, EW&F, Tower of Power, etc. Our drummer has been with the group for 4 years. He was always good on straight ahead rock tunes but started struggling with the Chicago stuff that has varyng time signatures. I watched him as he tried to count everything and realized if it wasn't a simple driving rock tune he couldn't feel it.
We worked with him on that material for over 2 years. Given that we're putting together a Chicago tribute show something had to give. Whenever he tried to count things out, if he lost count or miscounted he was lost for the rest of the tune. "Introduction" by Chicago is a complicated piece and I don't think he played it correctly once.
Just a month ago we had to let him go and it was painful, but necessary. Some guys in the groups thought it didn't need to be done until we went into the studio without him to record a demo for a promo package. We picked a drummer we all new to help lay down the rhythm tracks. After half of the session was done the couldn't believe how much better everything was and we agreed we needed to make a change.

In all of my years in playing there has always been a time where you knew someone wasn't quite on the same page and while it may sound fine to them, other musicians may be keying on them to play their parts and it disrupted the flow.

Do we really need to bring up Pete Best again? Mick Pointer of Marillion? Maybe too obscure to you guys, but when I heard Marillions first album, I thought it was great, albeit "new" or "lame" but they showed promise. Fast forward to this decade when they aired some concert video with their then drummer (Mick Pointer) live. Jeez. Music by the numbers! And when they tried to play 5/4 as in their early hit "Garden Party", you, as a listener, just went "what on earth is the drummer doing?", you can hear the struggle, counts, effort and he's just nailing it by sheer luck. Their lead singer Fish did had a way with him, as well as a row, and fired him, and he stopped playing for 10 years. That must've been some row!

Pete Best of the Beatles, the rest of the band didn't have any quibbles with at all. But experience George Martin was the only one who had the guts to say to them, "change drummer and you will have a contract". He could hear the pitfalls, and idiosyncrasies, not the actual remaining three members. And considering Ringos skills, Pete must've been really bad. In those days, they had to made tape splices from the beginning of a song, to the end of the song, you can't have abrupt speed changes. Ringo played in tempo, and didn't slack or push.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Don't know if any other hip-hop bassists have chimed in yet, but hopefully I can be of some help since that's what I currently do.

The guitarist told him that my bass playing wasn't cohesive with the guitar and vocals and that the bass was "almost antagonistic" to the guitar.

...learned all the songs true to the bass lines on the recordings, and even made a couple of new songs on the spot that sounded great.

Wanted to note this, but I will come back to it in a moment...

How do I learn from this to become a better player and avoid this scenario in the future?

1. Should I work with this artist again in the future, or is it like breaking up with an SO and things will never be the same?
2. What have you guys done when you've been canned?

Thanks for reading, I'd love to get your opinion and read other bassist's stories.

1) My personal policy with bands is the same as dating relationships. I'm of the ilk that "If it didn't work the first time, it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY to work a 2nd time around." Unless you have that rapper with a completely different backing band, then I don't think it would be a good idea. It sounds like the recording engineer liked you though, you could do studio work for the artist if you wanted.

2) I've not really been "canned" before, but I did have a retraction on an offer. The tl;dr for that was they had a temp they liked working with (he was a friend), but was tied up with another band. When they held auditions I got the spot, but that guy's band broke up and the BL was in a pickle there. He explained the situation and said they wanted to go with their friend, I told him I understood and that having chemistry with all the members was super important, so no hurt feelings and thanks for the opportunity. He made references for me to 3 other bands, so he did try to do right by me.

I wouldn't let it bother you too much though, it's not always a "You're not talented enough" as much as "You're not a good fit" when it comes to stuff related to "feel". If it's not your style then it's ok, country and western isn't my style so I probably wouldn't do too well at it. No biggie.



As far as the first thing I quoted, I'll give you a tip that actually saved me from getting a bad rap (pun not intended) on the exact same thing. See, this is why I never did Praise and Worship bands without a drummer or some kind of percussion, because guitarists will often complain about your timing. I noted that you said you played along with the recorded tracks and nailed them, I realize they didn't even give you the chance to do this, but this may be something to keep in mind after or during "the talk" that you got from the rapper. Offer to play a rehearsal along with the recorded tracks. The guitarist we had who quit for Michael Rowe had this same problem. Whenever a timing issue came up, I suggested we play along to the recorded tracks to tighten things up. The track can't be argued with, it's professionally done and on-time by nature. If you are playing along to that correctly, you are not the problem.

I would also suggest metronomes to settle disputes with drummers

 

[Sandman64]

I believe it's always best to discuss concerns both individually and as a group. If things can't be worked out, at least everyone has had their say. I might also add that usually once all the BS has settles down, you and those concerned can usually get along as it was done respectfully etc. You may not like that person, but if you got treated fairly, it is what it is.

 

[arbiterusa]

I guess what I'm curious about is:

1. How do I learn from this to become a better player and avoid this scenario in the future?
2. Should I work with this artist again in the future, or is it like breaking up with an SO and things will never be the same?
3. What have you guys done when you've been canned?

Tall order to answer.

#1: I don't know, I didn't hear your playing. Could be head rapper/bandleader guy is getting bad feedback from his bros. Could be you're not very good. I don't know and can't help here.

#2: If he's really going to the top, yeah, you work with him if he calls. It's not awkward at all unless you make it awkward. A bit of self-confidence in your skills and musicianship, which you are lacking, goes a long way here.

#3: Oh boy. I had a situation where we were signed, recorded, album in can, and then the singer decided to fire me. Since I was co-composer of every track (and that was in the contract) I sued to stop the release of the album. My demands were simply this - they were to re-record all the bass tracks and pull my name from the entire album. They agreed. No shock there, I could have said "you can't use my material" and forced them back to square one. I did not do that. I did not want to torpedo anyone's career, just to get out clean and with no publicity that could make me look bad afterwards. This was the only situation where I've ever told anyone "never call me again." They didn't, and folded a few years later. That was the absolute worst. The other two times I've been fired, it's been more than friendly and I have worked with those people under other circumstances.

Good luck.

 

[Steadfast]

Chin up and don't quit if you have the passion to play. I am a "pro" sax player and bassist wannabe. I have been in literally 100 bands in the last 40 years--major to minor. I have been "fired" a few times. Once because I missed a rehearsal when my wife was in the hospital. Another--because I had a "trump" sticker on my car. Other times---who knows....I wouldn't get high with them? Move on--there is music on every corner and they all need bassists.

 

[SMG]

Having read some of the posts, but not all, keep in mind that there is a time and place for everything, and that all can be used as a learning experience. Maybe this wasn't the right time and place for you. The above said, I feel for you because it is never easy to be rejected, for any reason. In this case, try to use it as a stepping stone to grow.

As one old white guy who has (repeat, has) played in a hip-hop band, I had my own strange experience with an MC/rapper. When I auditioned for the band, all seemed to go well. I had to learn a sets worth of original material in a little over a week, but the main objective was to learn the roots to the chords of each song and keep the groove. The guitarist, that put together most of the music, helped me put together a cheat sheet and it was pretty easy. Over time, I was able to expand the bass lines and was getting compliments from listeners much the bass lines drove the songs...so all went well...until the guitarist quit to pursue another project. At this point we started going through guitar players (and a couple of keyboard players) right and left because I was the only one who knew the song structures, and almost every rehearsal the MC/rapper was deciding a "new" way he wanted his songs to sound and there was no consistency. I would teach a guitarist a chord pattern, and the MC/rapper would decide he suddenly heard it a different way. This drove me nuts after a while, and while I love the music we came up with, and to this day wish we would have had the opportunity to seriously record it, I couldn't continue. It seemed like every rehearsal was spent showing someone else the song patterns and waiting for them to learn them. I finally through up my arms and called it quits.

But, I took something very valuable out of this experience. Playing hip hop made me play different. I had to focus on the groove, and very little else, and because of this, the metronome in my brain improved drastically. I became the one in the band that was stopping songs in the middle of rehearsal because someone had sped up or slowed down. While my timing is not great, it now drives me nuts to be at a jam and have someone speed up or slow down the song, especially if it is the drummer.

Bottom line, look at what you learned while rehearsing/preforming with this group. What did you come away with that helped you grow? How are you better for the opportunity that you had, even if it was shorter then you had hoped for?

Just my two cents worth...

Steve

 

[RichardW]

Since somebody already referred to Pete Best, I'll just say...now you know how Terry Chimes felt. He was the first drummer for the Clash and played with them on their first album. He was fired, Topper Headon replaced him, and the Clash went on to be "the only band that matters."

Get over it and move on. Terry Chimes went on to become one of the most successful chiropractors in England.

 

[jwilson67]

Sorry to hear about this man! Every situation you get into musically will be different. I know I'm a pretty decent bass player but one band I was in the guitarist kept telling me to "simplify my playing" and that everything I played sounded like Geddy Lee and they ended up replacing me. More often than not though every band I've been in likes my playing. I kind of get the idea that this might be kind of similar and it also sounds like you might have been canned for other reasons (image, they already have someone else waiting, you've been replaced by a DJ/sequencer, etc.)

One more footnote: As somebody else said earlier I sure as hell wouldn't listen to a rapper telling me about my bass playing.

 

[pappabass]

Sorry to hear that. Espeically after you commit time. I learned that sometimes the lead has playing rules that don't fit my playing style. I spoke with a lead about auditioning for a back up bass. After hearing his rules, I never sent a audition recording. I knew we would clash.

 

[Raw N Low]

As everyone has eluded to, they probably had another experienced player in the background. Usually those decisions are based on what that player can bring artistically to the table not just technically.

I think your friend is trying to strike while the iron is hot, and has a good chance of becoming a flash in the pan. If he gets in contact with a sound producer with a good studio, then everybody but the main talent is in jeopardy of being let go.

I've been fired and it can be difficult. However, bear in mind that this can be a blessing. Did you enjoy the music or the opportunity? A good spin on the situation is that you helped them as a stand in bassist for an upcoming show. This shows that you are capable and flexible in music styles. Put that on your resume!

In the meantime, keep playing and taking the available gig's. Your reputation will grow by leaps and bounds in no time.

 

[BaltBass5]

I didn't read your post....TLTBR.

BUT.....If you were fired, regardless of the reason, right, wrong, whatever.....just move along.

 

[SteveHeissner]

They did you a favor. Now go play some music. Join a Motown or Rock or Country or Blues or Top 40 or Reggae band.

 

[Rickter]

I agree with many others whom have said that they suspect that something else was going on in the background. Being that the guitarist and drummer had played together previously, I strongly suspect that they wanted to bring one of their friends on and just needed to get you out of the way.

I can definitely sympathize with your situation. When I was first trying to put myself out there as a serious bassist I was recommended for a gig by a drummer I had played with previously. I tried out and was made the official bassist. The material had no basslines or percussion recorded. I had to figure out several fairly complex songs and write my own lines while making sure not to step on the guitar of vocals. I attended several practices and put in a lot of work on my own. After a couple of months I was told that my style didn't fit what they were wanting after all and that I'd be better off in a rock band. I took it pretty hard, getting shot down like that, felt a little bit insulted, though I know that they were not trying to insult me. In trying to cope I also turned to TB for advice as you have done.

I would suggest for you the same thing that wiser ones here suggested for me. Take the time to think your way through it and try to keep your ego intact, glean what you can from the honest critique that you received, discard the negativity from those that you likely weren't going to ever win over anyways, and move on to the next gig. If you let this "firing" color your logic in any way, let it be in a "I'll show you" manner, a challenge to make yourself better, and work to make yourself a musician/bassist that they regret ever thinking about letting you go.