So Many Bass Guitars in Jazz?

[Killing Floor]

Is there an electric guitar? An electric keyboard instrument? A bass guitar is not out of place if those other instruments are electric, the upright is the oddball in that case.
The real answer is by the time you see them on stage the player and band chose what they think is best for their situation.

 

[Killing Floor]

Evidence - Best bass for jazz?

 

[FryFunk]

I don't know enough about upright to comment.

But pianos. Yes.

Pianos require an experienced technician to perform properly in tune. And there are lots of piano tuners who aren't there yet.

You can't sit down at a piano with a BOSS tuner, the wrench, and the dampening felts and have at it.

A piano had to be tempered via tuning. Look at chart of tuning a piano, and the ONLY note that's tuned to 'A440' . . . is the A just below Middle C, which is, match, A440. Every note heading down is progressively flatter by a pinch, and every note heading North is progressively sharper . . . . for the piano to play 'in tune' with other instruments.

Interesting, never knew that. But that doesn't change the equation all the more reason for the bass to be in tune with it.

 

[mongo2]

For the last several years I've been in a guitar/bass duo with a jazz guitarist/vocalist. For over 20 years before that I was associated with an americana style blues and country duo/trio/quartet/whoever showed up to play group.

I've had a fretted shortscale in my stable since the '70s. I find my shortscale fretted electric bass to be much easier to play and transport than my DB, NS CRM4, or my longscale fretless electric.

Unfortunately following a mild stroke four years ago, it appears I probably won't be able to play my DBs ever again.

 

[J Wilson]

Interesting, never knew that. But that doesn't change the equation all the more reason for the bass to be in tune with it.

But here again, the limitations of the instrument come into play:

A very long scale, fretless instruments. If you' re not thoroughly schooled on your neck hand, maybe you're off a pinch.

Straight bridge, no adjusting individually the length for intonation.

Really high action, possibly sharp even if you're dead on a note.

And it can be bowed.

You can think of a lot of ways to be out of dead-on-the-money in tune, and often, everything's out just a hair.


This stuff can make you crazy, and utterly torture the rare person with true perfect pitch:

I once was in the opening act for an outdoor festival gig where Ronnie Milsap was the top of the bill. His rider required at least a seven foot Yamaha or Steinway, tuned at its original location, retuned once delivered to the venue and double checked no more than two hours before he sat down to play it.

It was all done and parked Stage Right for the opening acts. When it was time to move it center stage for his show, rolling it on that big Y dolly with the go-kart wheels was not allowed. About 29 of us got all around it, picked it straight up, walked it about 15 feet, and set it down as gingerly as a live bomb.

Luckily, it was just fine.

 

[Bassnkeys]

This is being written by someone who plays straight-ahead jazz (real book) and occasionally plays with professional jazz musicians, Berklee types — nightclub-level; not pro festivals. I’m not a pro. Very serious hobbyist. I’ve obsessed (understatement) over tone and have bought a Rob Allen Mouse fretless and various pedals to come as close to an “upright” sound as humanly possible with a BG. I don’t play DB.

Long story short: I usually get most compliments when I play a fretted bass with flats. I’ve heard “that bass has more definition” and the drummer (semi-pro) always seems to make similar comments with my fretted basses. I think the aesthetic quality of having a DB in a jazz setting is a lot of what’s expected (and I agree, it just looks the part). However, when I’ve asked a couple of Berklee instructors about playing in a band setting with DB vs BG — they say they don’t generally care.

Lastly, pianos (and I’m also a pianist) are often out of tune. Sometimes so much that it’s best for me to tune my bass against the acoustic piano than my chromatic tuner.

 

[retslock]

I don’t own or play upright but I know that in any creative field there will always be changing ideas, methods, tools, materials, media and presentations. That’s a given that is the nature of creativity. It has to change or become the antithesis of creativity. Instrumentation will always be a vehicle for innovation and expression.

 

[Wasnex]

The answer is somewhat situation dependent. Before I turned pro, I played both upright and bass guitar, but I did not own an upright. So when I played in a big band, I used my bass guitar.

After I turned pro, an upright was provided by my employer (USAF). For most jazz trio work, I used bass guitar. The gigs were mostly music to be ignored to (background music). It's way easier to get in and out fast with bass guitar, and way less of a hassle to travel with a jazz trio in a van with bass guitar.

For big band, I used upright and bass guitar. I chose whichever instrument was most appropriate to the arrangement. Later in my career I added electric upright. This was my solution when I wanted a fretless electric sound. I never could get comfortable on fretless bass guitar. I used the electric upright quite a bit for jazz trio and big band.

I also switched between instruments in concert band. I played most of the concert band literature on bowed upright. Many of our vocal features were more appropriate on bass guitar. When I first got the electric upright, I tried using it for some vocal features in the concert band, but I found that it degraded my intonation on the acoustic upright too much. So a week or two before concert band tours, the electric upright was put in its case, and I pulled out Simandl to dial in my intonation on acoustic upright bass

I will say that my ability to play classical and jazz on upright bass had a pretty significant impact on my career. I doubt I would have ever been a full-time pro without these skills. No idea how beneficial it would be to have these skills now.

 

[joelns]

I'm too old and lazy to haul a db around. I'll play my fretted J-Bass with tapes, tuned to the (most likely) out of tune piano, and run with it. It's been fine in every situation I've played over the last several years.

 

[DanAdams]

I've been playing bass guitar for over 30 years.
Spent some time in jazz school too.
I've Never seen or heard "BG" used for 'bass guitar' before. Is that a thing? or just something the OP uses?

 

[longfinger]

One reality is that these "Jazz Festivals" have become more "International Music Festivals", than "Jazz Festivals".

Music evolves, things change. Sounds change. In Montreal, they've had DJs and diverse electric groups being the main mid-festival show at the Montreal International Jazz Festival.

There are the free shows and there are the paid shows.
Free shows could be "world music" ..or afternoon "trad jazz". Perhaps the Paid shows offer the type of jazz you're wanting to hear?
If you want more if that, pay to buy a ticket. Money matters. They'll book more of what sells.

 

[HelpImaRock]

I'm just a rock bassist but I listen to a lot of jazz. I was recently taken aback by Ari Folman-Cohen, who plays a Precision in Stephane Wrembel's band. You almost always see a double bass with Django style jazz. Makes me want to attempt that music now.

 

[longfinger]

I've been playing bass guitar for over 30 years.
Spent some time in jazz school too.
I've Never seen or heard "BG" used for 'bass guitar' before. Is that a thing? or just something the OP uses?

It's a staple on Talkbass, especially on the Double Bass side. The other words for bass guitar are "slab" and "pork chop".
BG = bass guitar
URB = upright bass

I've also heard upright bass referred to as "the voice of God", but only on the URB side of Talkbass!

On bass guitar side , folks talked about the rhythmic trance of the "dull thud of kicking a cardboard box" to refer to the hypnotism of the URB.

Objectivity is in the ear of the Listener.

 

[drumvsbass]

Air Canada is notorious for destroying instruments.

 

[Hasty]

99.999% of my playing is Jazz. Mostly be-bop with a healthy mix of other styles. 60-75% of that is with double bass. The rest is divvied up between a 5 string fretted, a 4 string fretless, and a Yamaha SLB200 electric upright.

I play most of my gigs on the upright because I feel most comfortable on it. Big Band, trios, quartets, sometimes with drums, sometimes without. But I’ll sometimes switch it up because I want to or because it’s too hot outside for the double bass. Most people I play with don’t care what I bring… unless I’m doing something that requires bow work.

I’ve never felt that choosing one over the other has been detrimental to how things sit in the mix. For the record hard bop is lots of fun on an active 5 string greeter bass.


This whole conversation seems slightly off to me. Generally the only people who care about what instrument I show up with is me… and that one bassist in the crowd judging everything I play.

 

[Matthew_84]

I've been playing bass guitar for over 30 years.
Spent some time in jazz school too.
I've Never seen or heard "BG" used for 'bass guitar' before. Is that a thing? or just something the OP uses?

BG is TB’s acronym for a bass guitar when they separate the sub-forums between bass guitar and upright (DB is for double bass).

It was easier to type that than bass guitar everytime. I just figured everyone here on TB would know what it meant.

I never say the term aloud, or outside of talkbass.

 

[Hasty]

BG is TB’s acronym for a bass guitar when they separate the sub-forums between bass guitar and upright (DB is for double bass).

It was easier to type that than bass guitar everytime. I just figured everyone here on TB would know what it meant.

I never say the term aloud, or outside of talkbass.

New life goal unlocked… I’m going to try and incorporate “BG” into physical conversations on a daily basis going forward.

 

[Pings Bass]

The genre of jazz is expansive, and festivals can stretch definitions. Personally, I'd love it if I could say "jazz" and everybody would think of a small acoustic combo of piano, bass, drums and a horn or two, but if you listen to jazz radio you know a lot of it is electric and has been since the 70s.

These guys are probably playing the instruments the music calls for. A lot of radio "jazz" is instrumental R&B, essentially.

Unless you're taking about guys playing bebop on a Fender?

 

[Matthew_84]

This whole conversation seems slightly off to me. Generally the only people who care about what instrument I show up with is me… and that one bassist in the crowd judging everything I play.

OP here. To be honest, I posed this question because I’m planning on getting an upright (or maybe an EUB) to play jazz with (amongst other things). I’m currently using a fretless 5 string.

I was mostly curious if there’s a shift towards favouring bass guitars instead, and if so, why - just mainly for consideration towards my next instrument.

I’m not trying to judge any of the bassists or anything of that nature. Just genuinely curious.

 

[5StringBlues]

New life goal unlocked… I’m going to try and incorporate “BG” into physical conversations on a daily basis going forward.

So is it pronounced "bee gee" , or "b'gee"?