Really? That sucks (for the musicians).
Air Canada is really the worst airline. I swore 10 years ago I’d never fly with them again and have been happier since.
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So Many Bass Guitars in Jazz?
- Thread starter Matthew_84
- Start date
Air Canada is really the worst airline. I swore 10 years ago I’d never fly with them again and have been happier since.
Understood. I was mainly referring to the middle part of this thread that started discussing fretless vs fretted and all the intonation discussion.
If you want an upright, by all means get one. They’re great fun to play and will also help your electric bass technique. I’m a lot more thoughtful about choosing my lines now than when I only played electric, which has also improved how I approach lines on the electric.
My only advice if this is your first foray into the double bass world… take lessons.
Oh for sure! I’m planning on renting an upright and taking bi-weekly lessons (and also want to see if my first one can be a couple hours or so). I just need to get some ducks in a row first.
Honestly, I'd love to get a nice upright. But I don't have room, nor the funds with 2 kids in college. Can't beat the tone. That doesn't mean it's a must for most gigs. Some will require it, especially if there's bow work. But for most stuff, play what you got.
On the other hand, it sounds like you have a real interest. Chase it down! Gotta enjoy the journey.
On the other hand, it sounds like you have a real interest. Chase it down! Gotta enjoy the journey.
If it makes you feel any better it's a faux jazz festival.
But Air Canada is garbage. I blame them directly for my grandfather having a severe episode of dimentia(he couldn't sleep for 36 hours). He was flying to my wedding so I suppose it was worth it, but flying across Canada during winter is brutal, Air Canada seems set on making it even less desirable.
Anyways so I flew again in winter this march. I watched come from away the weekend before, realized the thought of spending 911 stuck in a plane for 18 hours would be traumatic for me, as I finally realized I'm not afraid of flying, I'm afraid of being on a plane that isn't moving.
So anyways coming back from a hometown vacation (my wife forced me to take), we get stuck in a storm and end up spending 3 hours on a runway. Thankfully, I made my "I'm afraid to be stuck on a runway" joke to the checkin lady. She gave me the emergency exit so my 6 3 frame didn't feel so trapped. Anyways I realize then and there the bulk of my anxiety revolves being stuck in those tiny seats.
We were 3 hours late and I missed the flight from Toronto to London. I'm like "fluff air canada" they always suck. I'm pissed and I tell the guy, I'm not sitting around on standby for 6 hours to get a 35 minute flight. Give me a hotel and some food vouchers , I'm gonna enjoy my night with my wife and we'll be back in the morning to get our 35 minute flight. "I win" or so I thought, but my wife nags the guy "can we get on a flight at 9pm". I'm pissed, I just want to enjoy a night in a free hotel, with no fuss hanging around in an airport.
So there I am ,seriously frustrated with my wife, she wants to waste our evening waiting around on stand by, which i know is a complete waste of time. The whole time we're waiting I'm raging again this trashy lady behind me who refuses to wear a mask. I'm ready to lose my mind, I literally call my friend to complain/vent/calm down that no one is wearing their stupid masks. I calm myself down and in short order the flight fills up as predicted and I think finally we've wasted our day here but finally I can go back to my hotel.
Turns out the anti mask lady is gut shut when she doesn't get on. Apparently she was on standby, but it was only because they screwed up her ticket. The trashy lady complains she has to work in the morning, my eyes roll out of the back of my head thinking "how stupid are you to trust air canada with your livelihood?". After a while I'm convinced she's just stupid so I start trying to talk for her as she's having an embarrassing temper tantrum. I jump into the conversation just to calm her down and let her know someone is on her side. I start giving the boarding lady crap, and all of a sudden I hear the walkie talkie saying "we have room for one more, do you have anyone"? I start shouting "me and my wife are on standby we have hotel we aren't in a rush to get back to London, but you see this lady she needs to work in a steel mill in the morning that's not a job you can call in sick for, get her on the bloody plane" Of course the boarding lady has to "save face" and instead of admitting to an obvious error she doubles down.
At this point I'm told to go down with trashy lady and my wife to the customer service desk. We had zero right to any compensation, it wasn't our flight and we had already agreed to go the next day. My wife insisted on this stupid plan and I was just along for the ride. At that point my focus was making sure the steel mill lady got what she deserved.
Drum roll, they compensate me and my wife $1800 each, based on the lost wages we incurred by not getting on the flight. They were too incompetent to realize not only were we not working at the time and had no missed wages, but we had already agreed to being booked for tomorrows flight. $3600 may not sound like a lot to someone who flies on a proper airline, but in Air Canada money you might as well say that's 10 k. We got $3600 for missing a 35 minute flight, a flight I didn't even want to be on.
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This is the hill I'll die on!! I'm not a gear guy, I don't think news amps etc make the difference in ones sound. I'm a give me a squier and a 50 watt peavey kind of guy.
But, I believe with all of my heart the primary reason Jazz is less popular nowadays is because few people rarely experience the sonic pallet of an upright bass/with brass/wind. And I don't mean that for some pretentious audiophile, I mean your blue collar joe six pack kind of guy. You hear that sound and I truly believe it opens a kind of sonic door. If the doors is already open for you, that's great. But I fundamentally believe it's the reason casual people don't like Jazz. To me it's like comparing listening to the window, and listening to a ceiling fan. Sure they both have a "sound" of blowing air, but one feels organic.
I'm 100% convinced it is some combination of overtones and being in tune with the piano//main brass etc at the time.
Back in the 90s when they first came on the market I bought a fretless Godin Acoustibass as I was playing styles that traditionally used an upright - jazz, jump blues, and Western swing at the time. Now, after a dozen years of playing primarily upright, I can say that, while the Godin is a fine instrument in its own right, it does not at all take the place of a real upright bass.
I know that for the recent PDX Jazz Festival here in Portland, many of the touring bassists rented basses for their performances from Pete Lempe at Pete’s Upright Bass Shop, where they could select from a fine collection of instruments that Pete would set up to their liking. I think that’s a pretty common practice for touring upright players. And, IME, upright basses are pretty robust for acoustic instruments- far less finicky than guitars or violins.
Of course, bass guitar can work in many jazz settings - just look at Monk Montgomery, Bob Cranshaw, Charles Abels, and Steve Swallow for some examples. But it’s far from the norm, and for straight ahead jazz, it doesn’t look to me like the upright is losing any prominence.
Or perhaps just once, just so you know what 'effed up' sounds like.
From experience, fate laughs at the person trying to shepherd a DB through an outdoor music festival gig. There comes a point where reasonable people give up and play BG.
Lol! Love the Air Canada bashing ( Richly deserved!!) And just to stay in context, wasn't/isn't there an Air Canada Jazz spinoff airline? 
My latest AC anecdote: almost missed my connecting flight to Italy when the Air Canada techs in Kelowna forgot to charge my five AM flight's batteries the night before
My latest AC anecdote: almost missed my connecting flight to Italy when the Air Canada techs in Kelowna forgot to charge my five AM flight's batteries the night before
There are some misconceptions in the intonation portion of this thread:
Fretted instruments (like bass guitar and guitar) and pianos are tuned to what's called equal temperament. This allows this instruments to play in all 12 keys. But that flexibility comes at a price: it requires the instrument to be slightly out of tune across the range (even the octaves are out of tune on a piano).
If you tune to just intonation (building pure intervals from a fundamental), the 'home key' is beautifully in tune, and one has access to a few harmonically related keys, but everything else is badly out of tune. It's a sweeter, more consonant sound, but the limited key range isn't flexible.
All's well that ends well, until one plays a fixed pitch ET instrument with an instrument that isn't fixed pitch, like fretless instruments and winds. If a violinist plays with in-tune thirds, the piano will be noticeably out of tune, so there's always some give and take with the more flexible instrument.
Fretted instruments (like bass guitar and guitar) and pianos are tuned to what's called equal temperament. This allows this instruments to play in all 12 keys. But that flexibility comes at a price: it requires the instrument to be slightly out of tune across the range (even the octaves are out of tune on a piano).
If you tune to just intonation (building pure intervals from a fundamental), the 'home key' is beautifully in tune, and one has access to a few harmonically related keys, but everything else is badly out of tune. It's a sweeter, more consonant sound, but the limited key range isn't flexible.
All's well that ends well, until one plays a fixed pitch ET instrument with an instrument that isn't fixed pitch, like fretless instruments and winds. If a violinist plays with in-tune thirds, the piano will be noticeably out of tune, so there's always some give and take with the more flexible instrument.
I've played a lot of Jazz. One band, that I was with for a dozen years, I played 90% upright, but always had an electric (usually a fretted 1965 P) with me, kinda as a backup instrument, but mostly because I never knew when the BL "might" call a Motown or even Disco tune that really needed a fretted electric.
The other band is a fluid line-up of old friends I've played with in various bands and genres for years. With that one it's always electric, these days usually a five string.
Both bands play mostly melodic jazz, lots of the same tunes (stuff people would recognize and could whistle the melody to), lots of Real Book stuff.
Both bands have guitar, keys. bass, drums, and horn(s). Sometimes vocalist(s).
The key difference is vibe. The band I played upright with was going for a smooth, sophisticated, garden-party vibe and fairly frequently giged in evening wear, even tuxedos. The loose conglomeration band was going for a more "up" and rowdy vibe.
Imagine "Have You Met Miss Jones". On one hand it can be slick and airy. On the other you can play it the way Doc Severinsen did "The Tonight Show" theme.
The key difference in being convincing at the two different approaches is: (wait for it) ...the Drummer. The slick and airy version takes a jazz drummer, the punchy "Doc" style takes a rock drummer who knows how to play Jazz.
Both are a lot of fun. The one with a tuxedo on pays much, much, better.
The other band is a fluid line-up of old friends I've played with in various bands and genres for years. With that one it's always electric, these days usually a five string.
Both bands play mostly melodic jazz, lots of the same tunes (stuff people would recognize and could whistle the melody to), lots of Real Book stuff.
Both bands have guitar, keys. bass, drums, and horn(s). Sometimes vocalist(s).
The key difference is vibe. The band I played upright with was going for a smooth, sophisticated, garden-party vibe and fairly frequently giged in evening wear, even tuxedos. The loose conglomeration band was going for a more "up" and rowdy vibe.
Imagine "Have You Met Miss Jones". On one hand it can be slick and airy. On the other you can play it the way Doc Severinsen did "The Tonight Show" theme.
The key difference in being convincing at the two different approaches is: (wait for it) ...the Drummer. The slick and airy version takes a jazz drummer, the punchy "Doc" style takes a rock drummer who knows how to play Jazz.
Both are a lot of fun. The one with a tuxedo on pays much, much, better.
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$$$$$$$$$ - The purchase price of an upright and the dangers of flying with it would put off most people
The great and late Bob Cranshaw was forced to switch to BG for a while due to a car accident and he used to say "a bass is a bass".
I agree with Bob Crenshaw. Ask Steve Swallow if he cares. And, Mr. Swallow is better than 99% of any upright player you will hear. As usual, this just my opinion.
Ever travel with a dog house?
You're talking about a piece if furniture. In an airport, freighted perhaps, international...
Logistically, why put yourself through that mess?
You're talking about a piece if furniture. In an airport, freighted perhaps, international...
Logistically, why put yourself through that mess?
When an interviewer asked him recently what has changed about his double-bass playing in the last 50 years, Ron Carter said, "I'm really starting to be able to play in tune."
One main advantage of the use of a double bass over a fretted electric bass is that playing notes on the double bass that are a bit out of tune doesn't matter much, since the pitch is rarely fully audible when it's buried in the full-band context. That probably explains why double-bass solos in jazz usually feature high-speed staccato playing - you're off the note before the listener can hear how out of tune it is. Youtube videos of people demoing double basses or fretless bass guitars can be painful to listen to - medium-tempo runs inadvertently demonstrate that whether any given note other than an open string is in tune is mostly a matter of luck.
Once in a while I run into someone who claims to be able to hear that notes on fretted bass guitars are less in tune than upright basses. I now ask, "What about the drums?" If you're in a band where you tune down a half-step, I hope you insist on the drummer retuning accordingly.
One main advantage of the use of a double bass over a fretted electric bass is that playing notes on the double bass that are a bit out of tune doesn't matter much, since the pitch is rarely fully audible when it's buried in the full-band context. That probably explains why double-bass solos in jazz usually feature high-speed staccato playing - you're off the note before the listener can hear how out of tune it is. Youtube videos of people demoing double basses or fretless bass guitars can be painful to listen to - medium-tempo runs inadvertently demonstrate that whether any given note other than an open string is in tune is mostly a matter of luck.
Once in a while I run into someone who claims to be able to hear that notes on fretted bass guitars are less in tune than upright basses. I now ask, "What about the drums?" If you're in a band where you tune down a half-step, I hope you insist on the drummer retuning accordingly.
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Smooth_bass88
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When Leo Fender invented the world's first viable electric bass, initially referred to as 'Fender Bass', his whole concept was to liberate upright players from have a lug around a huge instrument that was often difficult to amplify. Maybe the electric bass has finally caught on with today's jazz players.
Don’t know, OP might be a fan of Barry, Maurice and the other fella? Or abbreviation might the new thing, “my band consists of 1RG, 1 LG, 1 BG, 1S and 1D” (…)
i like jazz, I like fretted bass. Never been a fan of the double bass sound although i enjoy it in rockabilly and old country stuff.
Ric5
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