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So where were you slackers?

#42
Originally posted by Limo


I don't see it as a bad thing either, I would never play a $10.000 vintage bass, I would seal it in a big tupperware and wait for the crazy guy as someone pointed out, as SMASH said "I'm a realist" well, I am also:)
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I truly don't get the crazy guy part. Crazy guys are the ones who bought IBM in the 60's or Microsoft in the 80's. Or the guy who bought a "that sure don't look like a Fender" bass back in 1980 that no one else appeared to want... that guy was me. The bass is my 1978 Tobias.

If crazy means buying something you like with your own money, cool. I don't get it but cool.

No offense and I'll try to put this the right way: the people who are saying what they wouldn't do "if" they had big dollars to spend are not the people who are buying this stuff.
 
#44
Originally posted by Marty Forrer
I'd say it would almost certainly sound better than a late model one with Antiquities. I've owned a '64 L series, and have played two pre-L's, a '61 and a '62, and they beat my L, which would beat my current one (similar to yours) by a fair margin.
Value is purely and simply in the pocket of the beholder. This particular instrument may or may not be a goody, due to it's being largely unplayed. I believe a lot of the magic coming from an early jazz is due to the years of being vibrated from constant playing, plus soaking up years of cig smoke, beer, sweat etc. This one has none of that mojo, so may not sound as good as a well used one.
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Marty, there's no telling what the auction bass would sound like. The nicest sounding old Fenders I've played so far have also been beat. The cleanest (closet classics) were merely ordinary sounding.

If I were bidding on that bass, I'd hope it played well and sounded phenomenal but I wouldn't lose sleep if it weren't;)
 
#45
Originally posted by Brad Johnson


Interesting... guess we'll have to wait and see.

I've watched these basses appreciate through several economic cycles over the years. You're predicting that the Japanese will dump these basses back on the market, creating a glut?
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I think so. It costs more money to hold basses than stocks as assets. When the return from instruments minus the cost of storage is finally less than the return from equities or debt (probably not likely in the next five years), it doesn't make sense to hold instruments that you can't play (and I really doubt that most of these Japanese collectors could play so much as "Louie, Louie").

Anyhow, how much did a brand new '62 Jazz Bass cost in 1962 dollars? I remember seeing a $400 figure once, but that may be off significantly. Anyhow, assuming 5% average annual inflation over the past 40 years (fairly close to reality), the value of today's $10,000 J is probably about $1420 in 1962 dollars. That works out to a real return of 3.2% annually--not too bad, I suppose. Of course, though, most people who collect vintage instruments purchased them in the last 10-15 years, and as such have gotten a significantly higher return due to virtually nonexistent inflation.

The real suckers are people who pay $100,000 for nice pieces of flame maple and binding with mediocre PRS and Gibson guitars attached to them. Our friend Ira Schwartzstein's made a lot of money from people like that, eh, BJ? ;)
 
#47
Originally posted by Brad Johnson

No offense and I'll try to put this the right way: the people who are saying what they wouldn't do "if" they had big dollars to spend are not the people who are buying this stuff.
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None taken, I was just pointing out that Im 17 now, and I will be the guy buying that bass off the guy whp won the auction some day if Im fortunate enough.

Im just letting you know what the next owner of that bass will do with it.

Peace
Nick
 
#51
Originally posted by rickreyn
I didn't catch the Japanese bass market report on CNN!

Honestly, I would like to get an old Fender P-bass in mint condition. But not being an investor and not being a collector, it would be best for me to get a new one and play it safe.

This has been an interesting thread.

Wow...$10,000 bucks! Still can't believe it.
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Hey, if I'm a Japanese investor and it's 1995 and I'm getting negative real returns on all of my equity and debt holdings, forking over a couple thousand yen a year to warehouse a couple dozen musical instruments suddenly doesn't seem like such a bad idea. Multiply that by a couple dozen very wealthy people, and what a surprise--vintage and art-piece guitars and basses suddenly have a lot more market value!
 
#52
Originally posted by Peter McFerrin


I think so. It costs more money to hold basses than stocks as assets. When the return from instruments minus the cost of storage is finally less than the return from equities or debt (probably not likely in the next five years), it doesn't make sense to hold instruments that you can't play (and I really doubt that most of these Japanese collectors could play so much as "Louie, Louie").

I don't know who the Japanese investors are, I do know that electric bass is huge in Japan. It makes sense that vintage Fenders would be too.

I don't think being able to play an investment is all that important to some and is very important to others.

I'm not sure in whose hands all of the 5, 6 and 7 figure instruments fall... players or collectors? Yet they're still retaining their value. By comparison, Fenders are a drop in the bucket.

Anyhow, how much did a brand new '62 Jazz Bass cost in 1962 dollars? I remember seeing a $400 figure once, but that may be off significantly. Anyhow, assuming 5% average annual inflation over the past 40 years (fairly close to reality), the value of today's $10,000 J is probably about $1420 in 1962 dollars. That works out to a real return of 3.2% annually--not too bad, I suppose. Of course, though, most people who collect vintage instruments purchased them in the last 10-15 years, and as such have gotten a significantly higher return due to virtually nonexistent inflation.

In straight economics what you just said may be valid. Throw "collectibility" into the pot and all bets are off. That's what makes a $.05 pack of baseball cards worth much more.

It works both ways, of course. My mother-in-law called last weekend to let my wife and I know that a lady she knows was selling a car. Tomorrow we're going to pick up a 1977 Fiat Spider convertible. One owner, 33k miles, service records, immaculate condition, garage kept. $3000. I hope it's as nice as they say it is.

I know, it's a Fiat;)... but for what I consider next to nothing we get a cool weekend car with nice handling and relatively simple maintainence.

Now I'm looking for a 1973 Triumph GT-6 MkIII... I miss the one I sold over twenty years ago:D. So far they seem to be in the same price range.

The real suckers are people who pay $100,000 for nice pieces of flame maple and binding with mediocre PRS and Gibson guitars attached to them. Our friend Ira Schwartzstein's made a lot of money from people like that, eh, BJ? ;)

I personally don't get buying new collectibles, any more than buying Elvis plates from the Bradford Exchange. But hey, it's their money.

BTW the Ira I know of is Ira Strickstein, who has a pretty amazing collection of high end basses. Who is Schwartztein?
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#53
Originally posted by Brad Johnson


I truly don't get the crazy guy part. Crazy guys are the ones who bought IBM in the 60's or Microsoft in the 80's. Or the guy who bought a "that sure don't look like a Fender" bass back in 1980 that no one else appeared to want... that guy was me. The bass is my 1978 Tobias.

If crazy means buying something you like with your own money, cool. I don't get it but cool.

No offense and I'll try to put this the right way: the people who are saying what they wouldn't do "if" they had big dollars to spend are not the people who are buying this stuff.
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Why are you taking this all to seriously, crazy is a term which is thrown around a lot to people and doesn't mean stupid or mentally ill in all meanings, if you'd buy this bass what's the first thing you think your wife would say??;)
 
#55
Let's just say that for every $5k I put into my 401(k) back in 1995... I'm lucky if I have $3k now. Makes a passbook account look pretty sweet:(

Makes my basses look much more attractive. Of course, selling the inner circle isn't really an option.
I'm a guy who bought basses that became collectible. The Accidental Collector, I guess.
 
#57
Originally posted by Limo


Why are you taking this all to seriously, crazy is a term which is thrown around a lot to people and doesn't mean stupid or mentally ill in all meanings, if you'd buy this bass what's the first thing you think your wife would say??;)
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Trust me, I'm not taking this any more seriously than anything else.

I can't catch your inflections on the web..."crazy guy" seemed like "crazy guy". Just for grins, what did you mean by "crazy guy"?

If I bought this bass, I know what the first thing my wife would say:

"Another bass? That's nice"

See, she knows me. She knows I know what I'm doing and that I'd have a good reason for buying it.


Sorry;)



Forgot to mention... I don't have $10k to blow on a bass. What do ya think I am... crazy??

:D
 

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