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So...Would you take the Gig?

Do you take the gig?

  • Heck no! You don't need no disrespect!

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • No. The band has soured on the venue. Any issue and it will be your fault for booking it!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes. Be a professional and play the gig and earn future gigs because we're good.

    Votes: 157 99.4%

  • Total voters
    158
Book the gig, by the time it rolls around they'll probably have forgotten all about the "3 man" slight. If not just lie to them and tell them that was a different gig that you turned down, as per their request.

And never ever tell them anything a booking agent says during negotiation again. If they really wanted to know they'd be making the calls and sending the emails themselves, right?
 
Of course I'd play the gig!
Why would I be offended if the booker thought having more members would look better? It's just an opinion and maybe he's even right. But the bottomline is: it's a place I wanted to play at, and a gig was offered! Why wouldn't I take it? :wideyed:

What's next? Another promoter sees the guitarist playing a natural finish guitar and he says "red would look better"... and guitarist would go off sulking in a corner and refuse to play?

It sounds like you have two too precious bandmates. If otherwise everything is cool playing with them, I hope that after they sleep on it reason prevails, you play the damn gig and get offered a bunch more.

If size really is a problem... hire three inflatable sumo wrestler suits and play with them :p
 
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See if you can make (or rent) a fake wall of Marshall's - don't need a fourth member
WallofDoom.jpg
 
Dealing with objections are a significant part of sales. As the sales person, your job is to deal with those objections to make a sale. If every salesman out there were to get butthurt because of objections and nix the sale, there would be a lot of starving salesmen and businesses closing their doors. Objections and rejections are part of the business, and you're gonna have to deal with it to make it work.

I mentioned it before, but there's good reason not to put everything out for the band if you're the booker. For example, say you have a heavy singer that can croon like Barry White. The client says that he likes the band's sound, but mentions that the singer is too fat. You do your spiel and it's enough for the client to overlook the obese singer and book your band for a date. Do you tell the singer that? No, because there is no reason to say that. It will only bring bad blood, and even if the bar manager loves you and wants to book you for 5 more dates for $100 more than you are asking, the singer is still going to remember that the manager thought he was a fat@$$ and ruin what should be a celebratory vibe. One thing that I have learned in life, people will forget what you say and what you do, but they never forget how you make them feel.
 
If you're that close to a gig, assuming nobody's arm* falls off in the mean time, you go and play the gig. And don't tell your wussie band mates everything from now on.

* Dave Grohl proved you could rock places with 1 leg out of action, so that's not an excuse anymore. And most musicians don't use their brains , so losing your head probably won't affect the band's performance. Of course, Def Leppard played for years (maybe still does?) with a 1 armed drummer, so even losing an arm, we'll call that a temporary excuse.... a transition period. after that, get off your butt and play.
 
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TL:DR Booking agent slighted the band based on size and now the band doesn't want the gig.

As the primary person who books our gigs, I spend a lot of time finding places, making contact, establishing rapport, and then negotiating for the best possible outcome on both sides. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. The other guys in the band have asked me to start pushing into a larger metropolitan area to see if we can expand our footprint and get into better venues. So, I've spent several months finding the appropriate venues, sending out teasers, follow-up calls with the venue, more follow-up calls/emails with the venues, all in an attempt to get that lucrative booking person's contact info. It takes a ton of time and when one finally bites, it's pretty exciting.

Anyway, I've also learned through booking gigs that many venue managers, booking agents, bar managers, etc. do their darndest to talk you down, belittle you, come up with reasons why they shouldn't pay what I'm asking, etc, etc. They have a vested interest in managing the expenses on their end of the equation so I understand it's how they choose to negotiate...and, I must say, I've gotten pretty good at not taking any of it personally. Most of the time, the resulting gig goes great, we end up with future bookings, and my bandmates are none-the-wiser.

...Until last night. I've been courting a metro area bar, known for booking mid-to-upper tier bands (we're a low-to-mid tier band, depending on the night but that's another thread!). In the conversation/negotiation, he hesitated once he found out we were a trio and actually asked me if we ever considered adding a fourth member. When I asked him why that would matter, he said they have a fairly large stage and trios and duos look pretty small on the stage. At that point, many things run through my head but I tell him that we've played many large stages (which we have) but we've yet to be told we come off as small or that our sound doesn't fill the room (we can be, uhm, LOUD!). He get's past it and we set up a tentative date for in October. Tentative because of how he wants to structure the comp, which is what concerned me so I wanted to discuss with the other guys.

Now, what comes next, has me completely bamboozled. I get ahold of the other two guys via text and tell them what's what. They're excited as it's another metro bar and are ok with the price. I then, for some reason, tell them about the comment on adding a fourth member and the guy being concerned about filling the stage. For some reason, this sets them both off and they go all in on what a d-bag this guy is and who is he to say that yadda yadda yadda. Up and to the point where they say they don't want to do the gig.

Now I'm p'd off. So I called them soft if that comment was enough to offend them. I also reminded them that, as the person who's doing 99% of our bookings, I hear all sorts of things from booking agents, bar managers, owners, etc. and it's part of how they negotiate the price down but if this comment has them so defeated that they feel they couldn't play the gig, I'll tell the venue we're a no go on the date and close that door and let the months of effort go to waste.

What would you do? Let it sit for a couple days until they get over themselves and reconsider or shut the door knowing it will be an uphill battle regardless?

You are in a funny position in that you are, whether meaning to be or not, your band's manager. And most managers are very careful not to pass on this type of criticism or comment on to the 'talent'. And for good reason apparently!
Your bands mates are just unused to dealing with this sort of thing so their reactions are really that of a normal person. of course it sounds insulting and ridiculous. but it just happens to mean nothing and so should be dismissed as such. They aren't used to that yet. and will most likely never be. It sounds like from your post it took you some time to get used to these types of comments and criticisms - so you would have to expect your bandmates would need some time to develop a thick skin for this type of stuff too.
I would say take the gig, but you will have to do some work on your bandmates to get them to feel good about it. otherwise the gig could really suck and then the whole thing will not have been worth it. In other words, you're going to have to manage them a bit.
 
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You are in a funny position in that you are, whether meaning to be or not, your band's manager. And most managers are very careful not to pass on this type of criticism or comment on to the 'talent'. And for good reason apparently!
Your bands mates are just unused to dealing with this sort of thing so their reactions are really that of a normal person. of course it sounds insulting and ridiculous...

The interesting thing is, I usually DO keep the bad stuff away from them. I had no idea commenting on the size of our band would be so offensive! :oops:

Oh, and I think I've unintentionally become the manager even though I've only been in this band for 2 years and the two other guys formed it back in 2009. They'd been playing the same 3-4 places over and over and had worn out their welcome so weren't getting any money and weren't having any fun. I took over booking, found new places, rebuilt their confidence in our product and went from a 15-20 gigs a year band to 40-45 gigs a year with better venues and better pay. I might be dealing with a slight regression in confidence as we're moving into bigger/better venues so the easy way out is to say the venue sucks and we shouldn't play it rather than play it and not be asked back.

The easy way to address that is to play it, knock their socks off, and be added to a rotation! Easy peasy!
 
Tell your other band members to quit being pussies and get over it or else you'll find two other guys who appreciate your efforts. And put them on a need-to-know basis from here on out and never tell them anything they don't absolutely need to know. He who brings in the money owns the band, and it's time to act like it.
 
Book the gig...

If they don't appreciate your efforts on their part, then call other people to play the venue. I've been in your position and it's a thankless job. In fact, I prefer talking to the business people over the musicians. There's less Diva-ness and ego driven verbiage uttered when it's business... Usually...
 
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Unfortunately it seems that there are times when you gotta 'act' like you just don't care. Beside that, where did you find these prima-donna 'cupcakes'? They maybe good musicians but it maybe an indicator of things to come. Guard your heart with these crybaby snowflakes. BTW- I'd try to book that gig to another band and maybe get some chump-change out of it and let your mushrooms stay in the dark (they seem to like it there) and if they want to they can go negotiate bigger better gigs.
 
TL:DR Booking agent slighted the band based on size and now the band doesn't want the gig.

As the primary person who books our gigs, I spend a lot of time finding places, making contact, establishing rapport, and then negotiating for the best possible outcome on both sides. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. The other guys in the band have asked me to start pushing into a larger metropolitan area to see if we can expand our footprint and get into better venues. So, I've spent several months finding the appropriate venues, sending out teasers, follow-up calls with the venue, more follow-up calls/emails with the venues, all in an attempt to get that lucrative booking person's contact info. It takes a ton of time and when one finally bites, it's pretty exciting.

Anyway, I've also learned through booking gigs that many venue managers, booking agents, bar managers, etc. do their darndest to talk you down, belittle you, come up with reasons why they shouldn't pay what I'm asking, etc, etc. They have a vested interest in managing the expenses on their end of the equation so I understand it's how they choose to negotiate...and, I must say, I've gotten pretty good at not taking any of it personally. Most of the time, the resulting gig goes great, we end up with future bookings, and my bandmates are none-the-wiser.

...Until last night. I've been courting a metro area bar, known for booking mid-to-upper tier bands (we're a low-to-mid tier band, depending on the night but that's another thread!). In the conversation/negotiation, he hesitated once he found out we were a trio and actually asked me if we ever considered adding a fourth member. When I asked him why that would matter, he said they have a fairly large stage and trios and duos look pretty small on the stage. At that point, many things run through my head but I tell him that we've played many large stages (which we have) but we've yet to be told we come off as small or that our sound doesn't fill the room (we can be, uhm, LOUD!). He get's past it and we set up a tentative date for in October. Tentative because of how he wants to structure the comp, which is what concerned me so I wanted to discuss with the other guys.

Now, what comes next, has me completely bamboozled. I get ahold of the other two guys via text and tell them what's what. They're excited as it's another metro bar and are ok with the price. I then, for some reason, tell them about the comment on adding a fourth member and the guy being concerned about filling the stage. For some reason, this sets them both off and they go all in on what a d-bag this guy is and who is he to say that yadda yadda yadda. Up and to the point where they say they don't want to do the gig.

Now I'm p'd off. So I called them soft if that comment was enough to offend them. I also reminded them that, as the person who's doing 99% of our bookings, I hear all sorts of things from booking agents, bar managers, owners, etc. and it's part of how they negotiate the price down but if this comment has them so defeated that they feel they couldn't play the gig, I'll tell the venue we're a no go on the date and close that door and let the months of effort go to waste.

What would you do? Let it sit for a couple days until they get over themselves and reconsider or shut the door knowing it will be an uphill battle regardless?
I would Tell band members to grow up!! if not find another two guys to do the gig with ! Don't burn your bridges cuz of two idiots!!
 
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