Soloing When You're Not Good At Soloing

[Reiska]

Charlie Haden never played anything fast and his technique looked like he was going to cramp anytime. Nobody ever played anything more meaningful and beautiful on bass.

 

[wes stephenson]

WARNING: If you hate bass soloing and think it's a waste of time, this thread is not for you, so go find another or I will insult the size of your naughty bits.

Not to brag, but I have a lot of skill I'm solid, I'm no speed demon but I'm pretty good at difficult parts and figuring out complex and difficult-to-play music, I can sightread pretty well, I'm great at spotting problems with the arrangements and fixing them, and I have good ideas for the most part and can come up with mostly solid working parts on the fly for most popular genres. My one drawback is improv soloing. Nobody is ever going to hear my solos and marvel at their complex and superhuman brilliance. I know...I've attempted it before and nobody marveled, though a few did give me points for the attempt. But the number one law of music is when someone says "Take it," you take it!

So when joining this band where the lead guitarist is a monster whose crazy speed and dexterity is only exceeded by his sense of melody, I felt like a complete yutz stumbling over stuff I couldn't pull off in a desperate attempt to keep up. So I had to figure out an alternate strategy.

Decided to rely almost entirely on being melodic. If I want to do something difficult, I stick with what I can play in my sleep and I don't reach any further beyond that without practicing it till I have it. I came across an old BP interview with a bassist who spent years backing up Les Paul at his regular Monday night gig in NYC in his later years. He said that lots of bigtime celebrity guitarists would come sit in and solo, and play crazy stuff that Les could no longer play due to arthritis, and it would come back around to him and he'd slay the house by playing the melody of the song. Hmmm...that could work.

And it does! I even occasionally get applause for my solos now. I'll try to mix it up a tad as well, but I always rely on the melody to guide me in what to play. Turns out it's a fantastic strategy to make yourself look like you know what you're doing soloing after you just went through two minutes hearing one of the best jazz guitarists you'll ever hear.

Another good tip I got for soloing with a fast walking swing tune came from our BL, who sings and plays killer blues guitar and harp. He said to keep the walking aspect strong at all times, don't do too much extra, and don't do something that takes you out of the walk. That also works.

How about you all? Whaddaya got for tips for soloing when you're not the best at it?

There's no money above the 5th fret

 

[Stewie]

I'll admit that I didn't read all nine pages. I play jump blues and early rock n roll. Most of the time the harp/main singer uses hand signals for change, stops et.c. When I get pointed at, I just go. It's pretty easy to hang 8 or 12 bars, 36 isn't fun and is a good way to empty a bar(no one wants to hear a bass solo, especially a long one)

 

[Neon Blues]

I am an awful soloist and do 1 a night I'd say.

I play mainly Blues. I have 1 set out solo I play being Reggie Richards solo on Why I Sing The Blues from BB King Live.

I use a similar formula when I solo. I tried and play uptempo riffs for the first 6 bars keeping similar patterns to the normal bass line. For the V, I jump up an Octave and try and do a fancy line playing down to the lower Octave V, IV, I.

I change up the style and riffs but most solos are pretty much the same formula. It's enough that it fits the song, shows a bit of skill without being over the top and stuffing it up.

 

[Wasnex]

In jazz, the world class players...and there are hundreds if not thousands of them alive at any one time...are making it up on the spot. Or at least trying their best to do so and only falling back on licks when they hit the brick wall.

I totally agree there are masters that play largely impromputu. But these people are way beyond the level of development that most of us will ever achieve and they are becoming increasingly rare. That doesn't mean the rest of us cannot make some fabulous music that gives the impression of impromptu improvisation.

IMHO using licks can also be a method of expanding your ear. Basically you study a theoretical concept and then play the concept until it is internalized. For example, currently I am casually studying pentatonic substitutions, and it is going very slow.

My current course of study was inspired by the following video and then I found the next video which gives a more in depth theoretical foundation.



IMHO these videos are really proposing a licks based approach, but once you get the sounds established in your head, you should theoretically be able to apply these ideas freely without thinking about the licks or theory.

 

[Wasnex]

Prisoners of an indigenous tribe are subjected to, driven crazy by drums, all day, all night all week when suddenly, they stop!

"Oh, no!" says one of their captors, "Now it gets really bad! Bass solo!"

....
One trick I utilized inna jam yesterday was to break down the bass line to parts, mebbe the "1" of the A section and then the "B" section of the riff. Then just the 1 and part of the B section. Then just the 1, then build it back up, all the way to chording the riff. Ya can't do it every time, but it makes for a good fallback approach.

I guess the good thing is most of the time when I was soloing we were playing what could be called, "music to be ignored to," basically background music for dinner or cocktail hour. Nobody gets upset when the bass solos, so it's an opportunity to cut lose and explore. The only real constraints are you have to keep the volume down and dress nice.

 

[drumvsbass]

Improvised solos are generally one of two things;
A) A chance to show off melodic sensibilities.
B) A chance to show off technical prowess.
Best to learn one before the other as one approach serves the song, one doesn't.

 

[somebrains]

You guys for the most part sound like the 1/1 trombone guy from hs jazz band.

Nothing like throwing someone blank bars with chord changes while the drummer and I stare at him.

If you aren't inspired in that moment you get to spend time working it out.

 

[IamGroot]

I stopped in at a friends jam session last night. Very nice guy and a good bass player, but he plays by rote. When I finish playing he jokes at me for once again making him look bad with all my improvisation. I have shown him some ideas over the years I have known him but they never really sink in.

If you want to improvise/solo, its about a serious commitment to study and practice.

Music theory can really help speed up the process, but you got to pay your dues. I

The truth is out there, especially if you go beyond bass players for knowledge.

Scales,
Modes,
Progressions,
Triads
Triad Pairs
Melodic Ideas
Soloing Ideas.
...........

PS, I have been woodshedding improv for 7 months, instead of gigging and I can see the difference.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

WARNING: If you hate bass soloing and think it's a waste of time, this thread is not for you, so go find another or I will insult the size of your naughty bits.

Not to brag, but I have a lot of skill I'm solid, I'm no speed demon but I'm pretty good at difficult parts and figuring out complex and difficult-to-play music, I can sightread pretty well, I'm great at spotting problems with the arrangements and fixing them, and I have good ideas for the most part and can come up with mostly solid working parts on the fly for most popular genres. My one drawback is improv soloing. Nobody is ever going to hear my solos and marvel at their complex and superhuman brilliance. I know...I've attempted it before and nobody marveled, though a few did give me points for the attempt. But the number one law of music is when someone says "Take it," you take it!

So when joining this band where the lead guitarist is a monster whose crazy speed and dexterity is only exceeded by his sense of melody, I felt like a complete yutz stumbling over stuff I couldn't pull off in a desperate attempt to keep up. So I had to figure out an alternate strategy.

Decided to rely almost entirely on being melodic. If I want to do something difficult, I stick with what I can play in my sleep and I don't reach any further beyond that without practicing it till I have it. I came across an old BP interview with a bassist who spent years backing up Les Paul at his regular Monday night gig in NYC in his later years. He said that lots of bigtime celebrity guitarists would come sit in and solo, and play crazy stuff that Les could no longer play due to arthritis, and it would come back around to him and he'd slay the house by playing the melody of the song. Hmmm...that could work.

And it does! I even occasionally get applause for my solos now. I'll try to mix it up a tad as well, but I always rely on the melody to guide me in what to play. Turns out it's a fantastic strategy to make yourself look like you know what you're doing soloing after you just went through two minutes hearing one of the best jazz guitarists you'll ever hear.

Another good tip I got for soloing with a fast walking swing tune came from our BL, who sings and plays killer blues guitar and harp. He said to keep the walking aspect strong at all times, don't do too much extra, and don't do something that takes you out of the walk. That also works.

How about you all? Whaddaya got for tips for soloing when you're not the best at it?

On the job training. Embrace it and don't hold back. I know you're a solid bass player and from what you described, you should have no reservations letting it rip. Sure, you will have some flubs but you will also have moments that will make you happy you went for it. And... the more you do it, the more natural it will become. Good luck Jimmy... no doubt in my mind you will lay it down.

 

[diegom]

I remember reading and interview where Jaco said that first thing he did when learning a new tune (in his old days playing with FL dance bands), is learn the melody. Once he knew where the melody was on the neck, and he got the phrasing right, he felt he could do anything...
Not bad advice.

 

[somebrains]

I remember reading and interview where Jaco said that first thing he did when learning a new tune (in his old days playing with FL dance bands), is learn the melody. Once he knew where the melody was on the neck, and he got the phrasing right, he felt he could do anything...
Not bad advice.

 

[JimmyM]

Every night... just played the same bass line, threw in a few extra licks /notes and it was good enough.

That is also a bigtime strategy with me. Not on every song but it does work.

 

[JimmyM]

Wow, this thread really blew up today! Have some things to do before I read it all but I will. Thank you everyone!

 

[logdrum]

Senor @JimmyM . I hope this inspires. Larry Carlton's son. He builds it up. Humble guy.



I've seen father and son live - Very inspiring

 

[vvvmmm]

I may or may not be as good a bass-soloist as my guitarists are guitar-soloists.

But I like to think so, and behave accordingly - seems to help.

 

[somebrains]

Wow, this thread really blew up today! Have some things to do before I read it all but I will. Thank you everyone!

Blues, jazz, Latin jazz, fusion.
There's a lifetimes worth of study right there.
We got drilled in fundamentals so we could solo with a ton more musical context.

It sucked as a kid being put in that position bc you could easily lose your chair if you had nothing musical to say. Try soloing in chamber music, that's playing what's on the sheet.

Improv takes so much time on its own bc you're trying to excite parts of the brain you've been taught to control intensely in a band context.

Some guys literally can't do it bc they are too band institutionalized.

 

[JimmyM]

There's no money above the 5th fret

The size of your naughty bits is a subject of humor.

 

[wes stephenson]

The size of your naughty bits is a subject of humor.

Hey! Naughty bits don't need to be above the 5th fret either!

 

[Playbyear]

There's no money above the 5th fret

That only applies to guitar players.


I know from experience that there is tens to hundreds of dollars to be made playing bass above the fifth fret!