Soloing When You're Not Good At Soloing

[SactoBass]

How about you all?

Well, here's what I do:

I first start off by leaning my head forward and spinning my long hair around and around in circles. I then take my bass by the headstock end and swing the entire bass around over my head in orbit while exhibiting the most painful facial expression that I can generate. I then get a big running start and I throw myself out into the audience where they bodysurf me around the entire room as I pound out a 200-note-per-minute slap solo.

It goes over quite well when our band plays You've Got a Friend by James Taylor.

 

[Joshua Pickenpaugh]

Elevator pitch: Play the opposite of what the person played before; if they end low, start high; they end fast, you start slow.

 

[enricogaletta]

Great thread topic Jimmy.
Well we always have something to work on and improve;
In the late years what changed my approach to practcing is to work directly on concepts I know are my Achille's heel, focusing on quality time instead quantity time.
As my best friend Adam Nitti taught me, is better to spend 30 minutes on staff you are not familiar with, than just practicing 4 hours on your solid skills.
My soloing were pretty challenging to me because I always felt as I was playing just licks and lines I learned in the past without be capable of break these rules, even because I always gave great relevance to the melody and dynamics on a solo, groove or whatever.
When I started to work on ear training, singing what I was playing and using all my harmony knowledges then things started to quickly improve.
On live scenario when you easily can forget a solo your previous practiced, simply because the band feel is different of what you practiced at home; or your stage listening is different, or simply the drummer plays different groove; or the guitar/keys player use different chords; be able to face the new scenario without forcing yourself to play just the one single way you practiced, is the most freedom feeling I ever experienced.
So to me singing (I'm terrible at singing but I'm always doing now) what I'm soloing is the best tool, it gives your great confidence, make your harmony skills even more solid, helps you to play more interesting stuff making you play more by heart than just by techniques.
Another great things that helps my versatility is to approach to a solo section with different techniques, even if doesn't fit the arrangement. Because of that I force myself to reach the same elegance I can reach with finger style, but using slaps or palm muting for example.
When I first heard Marcus Miller solo on his "Steveland" at 3:48, I was so impressed from his delicacy on how he played a slap solo merging it with fingerstyle.. on a ballad. Simply Beautiful..

 

[bassbrad]

We all fall when learning to walk, it takes practice and we learn from our mistakes.

Practice playing melodies, as bass players we don't get a chance to do this fundamental thing often enough.

 

[The Bass Clef]

When you do this, do you tend to think modally (chord scales)? If time is not a factor this is one example of when this can be handy and helps me with options so I don’t have to think as much.
Just wondering if your head is working similarly.

For regular bass playing, I generally think of what scales/modes are associated with whatever chords are being played, and then focus more around the actual chord tones within that scale (and use the rest of the scale notes as passing tones, etc...). But when I’m soloing I just try more to think more melodically within the key of the song and worry about chords and scales a little less.

 

[Nephilymbass]

WARNING: If you hate bass soloing and think it's a waste of time, this thread is not for you, so go find another or I will insult the size of your naughty bits.

Not to brag, but I have a lot of skill I'm solid, I'm no speed demon but I'm pretty good at difficult parts and figuring out complex and difficult-to-play music, I can sightread pretty well, I'm great at spotting problems with the arrangements and fixing them, and I have good ideas for the most part and can come up with mostly solid working parts on the fly for most popular genres. My one drawback is improv soloing. Nobody is ever going to hear my solos and marvel at their complex and superhuman brilliance. I know...I've attempted it before and nobody marveled, though a few did give me points for the attempt. But the number one law of music is when someone says "Take it," you take it!

So when joining this band where the lead guitarist is a monster whose crazy speed and dexterity is only exceeded by his sense of melody, I felt like a complete yutz stumbling over stuff I couldn't pull off in a desperate attempt to keep up. So I had to figure out an alternate strategy.

Decided to rely almost entirely on being melodic. If I want to do something difficult, I stick with what I can play in my sleep and I don't reach any further beyond that without practicing it till I have it. I came across an old BP interview with a bassist who spent years backing up Les Paul at his regular Monday night gig in NYC in his later years. He said that lots of bigtime celebrity guitarists would come sit in and solo, and play crazy stuff that Les could no longer play due to arthritis, and it would come back around to him and he'd slay the house by playing the melody of the song. Hmmm...that could work.

And it does! I even occasionally get applause for my solos now. I'll try to mix it up a tad as well, but I always rely on the melody to guide me in what to play. Turns out it's a fantastic strategy to make yourself look like you know what you're doing soloing after you just went through two minutes hearing one of the best jazz guitarists you'll ever hear.

Another good tip I got for soloing with a fast walking swing tune came from our BL, who sings and plays killer blues guitar and harp. He said to keep the walking aspect strong at all times, don't do too much extra, and don't do something that takes you out of the walk. That also works.

How about you all? Whaddaya got for tips for soloing when you're not the best at it?

When it comes to soloing on bass I’m much more about melody than blistering speed or shredding. A lot of my solos end up not sounding like solos in the mix, they just just kind of end up being the “pretty/melodic” parts of songs. I think it just goes back to my background with the music I like and originally being a trumpet player. The grunge era was a big era for me because of the era I was born in. Guitarist like Kurt Cobain (think about the guitar solo for smells like teen spirit) where he played a very simple solo that was more about melody than sounding like someone practicing scales, arpeggios or some crazy slapping stuff.

here’s an instrumental example from a demo my new band recorded at rehearsal just last weekend. I screwed up and came in early in the intro but Notice i actually play the same thing in the intro and the bridge I just add some dirt the second go around. I think that kind of vibe works well. I feel like I’m setting up the big ending and guitar solo that follows well and breaking up the song which has very simple chorus and verse parts. Like with my old band I try to keep the solos simple enough that there can be vocals over top of them also And not a situation where everyone Goes to the bar because the bass player is soloing type of vibe.
Dropbox - New Song 2 (I think).logicx.mp3 - Simplify your life

 

[GastonD]

I am good friends with pentatonic scale
Honestly, my "breakthrough" in using pents to achieve fairly solid solos over chord changes happened after working at Ant Ant Wellington's lessons we had, and Dana Rasch's Visual Guide Tones series (volumes 1-3). Yes, he is a guitar player, but his stuff is excellent and transfers really well to bass.

Anyway, relying in pentatonics allowed me to focus on phrasing, contour and dynamics of the solo...and that is still my focus in this frame of work.

 

[Robscott]

most of the time it's just a nod in your general direction! it's "law" because it's expected that you'll shine in some way and make the BL a star for having you on his set! (it's also "law" because everyone else on the bandstand expects a little break from 'thinking'/working/blowing/yada yada. most of the time: the bass solo allows everyone else to 'reset'...players expect this!)

Yep, I totally get that now it's been explained! No more looking at the floor for me!

 

[bwoodman]

My post Pt2....
1.Hearing the melody of the turn helps me...I actually hum it when learning the chord changes. I actually learn the melody on bass which was also my great leap in Soloing... You can always sort of refer to it when I don’t have any ideas at that moment.

2. I also study with guys who IMHO are great soloists as well and sidemen.this has helped a lot!


Here is a live improvised solo in real time with the “tape” on for a CD recorded live
last summer. I was hired and no idea I was getting a solo on the sobg.
It’s not my best or worst but it was me at the moment with a song that was recorded for a singer this past summer. I did not know the song in this key so I am prolly a little “light “ on the changes in this key.

Solo around 1:24
It Could Happen To You

Jim, it sounds from your posts that you have made great strides since starting and wish you continued success.

we are all still a work in progress !

Pretty good solo IMO - better than I could have done! And the fact that you didn't know you'd get a solo - very good! I like to know in advance so I can work something up. As bdplaid mentioned - Rocco and Pino have never taken a solo (that we know of) - and cats like Lee Sklar, Neil Stubenhaus (he actually will solo from time to time, but usually not - and he admits he's not a great soloist / not a chops guy, so he relies on chordal stuff), Rickey Minor, Mike Porcaro, Will Lee, James Jamerson - the list is long.

This a great thread. Just like with reading notation - same goes for soloing - the more you do it, the better you will get. The problem for me has been - I don't do either of these things very often because of the types of projects / bands I've been in. Original bands that I've been in were pop / rock / R&B - I come up with bass lines for the singer / songwriter and there's no bass solos required. In cover bands, I've always been in classic rock / R&B / AM Gold / Motown / Disco type bands with not much need for a bass solo - the exception is on the funk or disco stuff - I have no problem doing a slap style solo if needed.

As far as playing like a Hadrien Feraud or other super chops guys....I just haven't put the time in - and at this stage of the game (age 55), I can't imagine I will. I've never played in 100% jazz groups - not because I don't like jazz, I just prefer pop / rock / R&B. I can fake my way through standards / read charts pretty well / on the rare occasion I've had to take a solo on a standard, I've tried to go the melody route.

Coincidentally, I'm doing a recording project right now with a singer / songwriter and one of the tunes he wants a bass solo over a set of simple changes in A minor. So, I'm working on some things now - and looking at Marlowe DK & Scott's Bass Lessons YT vids for idears!

 

[Wfrance3]

Somewhere out there is a meme that says something like, when the bass solo par happens, the other instruments back off, the bassist does exactly what he's been doing for the whole song, and the crowd goes wild. That's basically it

 

[KJMO]

Kind of timely because I struggle. Only solo I had for most of my life was during "got the time" by Joe Jackson. No prob. However, in my current band it's an "introduction to the crowd solo" during "the look" by roxette. I've never been so stumped. I've tried a few things and just settled on galloping the roots, because I can't compete with the keyboard and sax solos (arpeggios and high squeals). Melody? Sounds like a great idea except "Nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah nah nah" is two notes, not super melodic. I'm tired of being motioned at to do some sort of slap thing that I can't really do. I got one idea from this thread and I'm going to see if I can work it out. Everyone drops out but the drummer, but I've got a couple bars to impress, so I can't really work my way into anything. Tapping would be perfect, if I could.... Just a barrage of fast notes. Easy/common chord progression though! On second thought, maybe the melodic approach might work...

 

[KJMO]

Somewhere out there is a meme that says something like, when the bass solo par happens, the other instruments back off, the bassist does exactly what he's been doing for the whole song, and the crowd goes wild. That's basically it

Someone just posted that meme at me on facebook, and I was a bit insulted Mostly cuz it's true!

 

[vvvmmm]

Prisoners of an indigenous tribe are subjected to, driven crazy by drums, all day, all night all week when suddenly, they stop!

"Oh, no!" says one of their captors, "Now it gets really bad! Bass solo!"

....
One trick I utilized inna jam yesterday was to break down the bass line to parts, mebbe the "1" of the A section and then the "B" section of the riff. Then just the 1 and part of the B section. Then just the 1, then build it back up, all the way to chording the riff. Ya can't do it every time, but it makes for a good fallback approach.

 

[knight of ni]

Mostly cuz it's true!

Exactly, and it's because at this very moment the audience finally realizes what's been making the song great all this time !

 

[GonzoBfiddy]

What would happen if you walked into the melody? I have always been a no-solo player, but this thread might change all that.

I'm the same way!

 

[Wasnex]

I never knew about the "Take It" law until now. Jeez, I've been playing in a jazz combo for a year and I am a serial offender. Now you've explained it to me I will take all my solos, never shake my head again! Always learn something from you Jimmy, keep posting!

It's not the law in every group. Have a conversation and learn what the group mores are. Sometimes the look means, "You want a piece of this?" It really depends on the internal culture and expectations of the group.

 

[smeet]

Kind of timely because I struggle. Only solo I had for most of my life was during "got the time" by Joe Jackson. No prob. However, in my current band it's an "introduction to the crowd solo" during "the look" by roxette. I've never been so stumped. I've tried a few things and just settled on galloping the roots, because I can't compete with the keyboard and sax solos (arpeggios and high squeals). Melody? Sounds like a great idea except "Nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah nah nah" is two notes, not super melodic. I'm tired of being motioned at to do some sort of slap thing that I can't really do. I got one idea from this thread and I'm going to see if I can work it out. Everyone drops out but the drummer, but I've got a couple bars to impress, so I can't really work my way into anything. Tapping would be perfect, if I could.... Just a barrage of fast notes. Easy/common chord progression though! On second thought, maybe the melodic approach might work...

There's a few nice cliches for a short bass solo in rock. Starting out with the open E string and the G# at the 13th fret on the G string. Then moving to the open A and the E at the 14th fret on the D string. Sustain them and noodle in between. Gives a nice floaty sound. Stanley Clarke does this for the intro of Silly Putty (monster song if you haven't heard it!):

 

[Charlzm]

I was asked to take a short lead in an original song of my band's. I worked out a part based mainly on chord tones and a few passing notes and kept it simple and easy, save for a little twiddly bit at the end. I'm happy with it, but that's because I worked it out for a few hours in advance.

Soloing off the cuff? Nope. Not my thing.

 

[2112]

I just posted this to another thread:

Some things that helped me:

1. Remember, you will still be alive after playing this solo. Putting it into that perspective, it just ain't a big deal. Life will go on, regardless of the outcome.

2. Everybody there is there for other reasons, and alcohol is likely to be involved. Thus, audience scrutiny is not likely to be real, real deep. Unless you're in a Rush tribute band.

3. Most of the people in the audience wish *they* were the ones that are up on-stage, so you have a degree of "can-do-no-wrong" built into your signal chain.

4. Develop your solo *before* the gig, and then practice it so you can play it from muscle memory at least at 125% speed.

5. Remember, amateurs practice until they get it right, professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.

Now, go melt some faces!

 

[Wfrance3]

Hey @JimmyM -

I just heard this on my spotify channel:

Not sure how spotify links work, but if it doesn't pan out, it's supposed to go to a live version of Ophellia by The Wood Brothers. The bassist just takes this kinda walky approach on an EUB. The solo is just a run thru of the melody. Sounds right and tight. Something like that approach work for you? Not trying to over simplify it or anything, just seemed like a great angle, and in my opinion, a killer result.