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Soloing When You're Not Good At Soloing
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
Cannot be overlooked by any means! There's a lot to be said for playing with confidence. I'm almost there.
The last I time I took a gig as a sub, the BL wanted me to solo a bunch, but he only gave me the nod on tunes I don't normally solo on, and it was obvious he was not capable of soloing well on them either. Most of the songs I normally solo on, he kept for himself and didn't bother looking my way. We played a lot of tunes that I would have been happy to solo on. By the end of the night, we were both a bit frustrated.
On top of that, he showed up late (after scheduled down beat) and he expected me to unload his gear, and then help load it again after the gig was over. This was for a three hour gig that paid $50-60, and I can guarantee that he took home at least triple what he paid me.
If you want me to solo I am good with it, but it better not be because you want to slack off, or because you are too incompetent to play the solo yourself, because that's just going to P*** me off. Now if you're an A player and/or willing to pay me well, then sure you can call the shots and I will jump up and down and coo like a good monkey should. But there has to be something worthwhile in it for me. No banana, no happy monkey, and I am sure you know what unhappy monkeys do, right?
The BL I normally worked with paid better, showed up on time, and I never had to help him load or unload before getting paid. He wanted me to solo quite a bit too. When he gave me the look, I took it, but at least he threw some tunes my way that I enjoyed soloing on instead of just sending me the stuff he couldn't play well.
I wouldn't solo in the middle of a song, unless it's the part in Free's Alright Now, which really isn't a solo, just a bass break.
I'd do a stand alone solo between songs. I've been working up a cool version of Tool's Sober, and some other songs you wouldn't expect to hear on a bass but work well. I don't showboat, just groove.
I'd do a stand alone solo between songs. I've been working up a cool version of Tool's Sober, and some other songs you wouldn't expect to hear on a bass but work well. I don't showboat, just groove.
WARNING: If you hate bass soloing and think it's a waste of time, this thread is not for you, so go find another or I will insult the size of your naughty bits.
Not to brag, but I have a lot of skillI'm solid, I'm no speed demon but I'm pretty good at difficult parts and figuring out complex and difficult-to-play music, I can sightread pretty well, I'm great at spotting problems with the arrangements and fixing them, and I have good ideas for the most part and can come up with mostly solid working parts on the fly for most popular genres. My one drawback is improv soloing. Nobody is ever going to hear my solos and marvel at their complex and superhuman brilliance. I know...I've attempted it before and nobody marveled, though a few did give me points for the attempt. But the number one law of music is when someone says "Take it," you take it!
So when joining this band where the lead guitarist is a monster whose crazy speed and dexterity is only exceeded by his sense of melody, I felt like a complete yutz stumbling over stuff I couldn't pull off in a desperate attempt to keep up. So I had to figure out an alternate strategy.
Decided to rely almost entirely on being melodic. If I want to do something difficult, I stick with what I can play in my sleep and I don't reach any further beyond that without practicing it till I have it. I came across an old BP interview with a bassist who spent years backing up Les Paul at his regular Monday night gig in NYC in his later years. He said that lots of bigtime celebrity guitarists would come sit in and solo, and play crazy stuff that Les could no longer play due to arthritis, and it would come back around to him and he'd slay the house by playing the melody of the song. Hmmm...that could work.
And it does! I even occasionally get applause for my solos now. I'll try to mix it up a tad as well, but I always rely on the melody to guide me in what to play. Turns out it's a fantastic strategy to make yourself look like you know what you're doing soloing after you just went through two minutes hearing one of the best jazz guitarists you'll ever hear.
Another good tip I got for soloing with a fast walking swing tune came from our BL, who sings and plays killer blues guitar and harp. He said to keep the walking aspect strong at all times, don't do too much extra, and don't do something that takes you out of the walk. That also works.
How about you all? Whaddaya got for tips for soloing when you're not the best at it?
I think I can solo OK when needed. One thing that you do need to do is A, you have to look forward way beyond the next note, B, always remember where the tonic is just in case you’re up a dead end alley, and let it fly.
If you're talking about jazz, a lot of times you would likely be playing a walking bass through the changes anyway, so when your solo comes around if you just keep doing that and the drummer sits back and gives you some space that can be really effective. And if you swing it a little more, a few more skips and ghost notes, even better. One thing I sometimes do if I know a solo is likely coming my way is prepare the first few bars in advance, just to get me set up right to improv through the rest of the sequence. Also I work out a few "landing notes", so if things start to get a bit too interesting I can dive for cover. That's what I do, but I can't say I'm a virtuoso, more a good fake. Plus, I've only been playing jazz for a year or so. I'm pretty sure you are already well in advance of me. But boy, do you ever learn quick with those jazz guys!
I can't really add anything that hasn't been said already......I think melodically like singing, and start off slow and easy...... because it is a lot like verbal communication .....like saying "Hello..... What's up?......How are you doing"......... If I get in a rut, I'll use the meters of melody lines from well known songs
I never knew about the "Take It" law until now. Jeez, I've been playing in a jazz combo for a year and I am a serial offender. Now you've explained it to me I will take all my solos, never shake my head again! Always learn something from you Jimmy, keep posting!Ha! I'm not above it. Neither is our guitarist. I noticed he did it last night.
Thanks for the participation, everyone! The new tips are high quality...mostly
And there's good reason for it, too...on NYE I told the jazz band I was filling in with not to worry about calling me for a solo on every single instrumental. The sax player says, "If you don't solo, we'll have to come up with 10 or 15 minutes worth of other songs." I totally felt him.
I have two things to offer.
1) seek out soloists OTHER than bass players to copy. Transcribe some licks from trumpet/trombone/etc. Develop your ear to the point you can copy a little phrase by hearing it once.
2) you have to know what you're gonna play before you start the solo. Not note-for-note what you will play, but some idea of what will work. Good soloists have a wide vocabulary of licks that will work in different styles of playing. Then they can build solos on the fly, drawing from that vocabulary.
1) seek out soloists OTHER than bass players to copy. Transcribe some licks from trumpet/trombone/etc. Develop your ear to the point you can copy a little phrase by hearing it once.
2) you have to know what you're gonna play before you start the solo. Not note-for-note what you will play, but some idea of what will work. Good soloists have a wide vocabulary of licks that will work in different styles of playing. Then they can build solos on the fly, drawing from that vocabulary.
To me a solo is all about melody and being melodic. Not necessarily the main melody in the song. But I think it should find its roots in it. A clever variation on the main theme that fits the mood and groove but is different enough to stand on its own has always been the ideal for me.
I also think a bass “solo” works better when the bass is trading phrases back and forth with another instrument in a pas de deux movement most times. But that’s probably just me.
One thing to consider however: not every song deserves a bass solo IMO. And not every song has space for one. Many times it can be an unwelcome distraction if the song isn’t really geared for solo breaks. I recently heard an otherwise decent band where every song had a guitar solo. And every other song also had a bass solo. Once that pattern became clear it got old pretty fast. So higher quality in smaller servings might be a good thing to strive for. And pick the place for it with care.
I also think a bass “solo” works better when the bass is trading phrases back and forth with another instrument in a pas de deux movement most times. But that’s probably just me.
One thing to consider however: not every song deserves a bass solo IMO. And not every song has space for one. Many times it can be an unwelcome distraction if the song isn’t really geared for solo breaks. I recently heard an otherwise decent band where every song had a guitar solo. And every other song also had a bass solo. Once that pattern became clear it got old pretty fast. So higher quality in smaller servings might be a good thing to strive for. And pick the place for it with care.
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This is such great advice! I cannot agree more.WARNING: If you hate bass soloing and think it's a waste of time, this thread is not for you, so go find another or I will insult the size of your naughty bits.
Not to brag, but I have a lot of skill
So when joining this band where the lead guitarist is a monster whose crazy speed and dexterity is only exceeded by his sense of melody, I felt like a complete yutz stumbling over stuff I couldn't pull off in a desperate attempt to keep up. So I had to figure out an alternate strategy.
Decided to rely almost entirely on being melodic. If I want to do something difficult, I stick with what I can play in my sleep and I don't reach any further beyond that without practicing it till I have it. I came across an old BP interview with a bassist who spent years backing up Les Paul at his regular Monday night gig in NYC in his later years. He said that lots of bigtime celebrity guitarists would come sit in and solo, and play crazy stuff that Les could no longer play due to arthritis, and it would come back around to him and he'd slay the house by playing the melody of the song. Hmmm...that could work.
And it does! I even occasionally get applause for my solos now. I'll try to mix it up a tad as well, but I always rely on the melody to guide me in what to play. Turns out it's a fantastic strategy to make yourself look like you know what you're doing soloing after you just went through two minutes hearing one of the best jazz guitarists you'll ever hear.
Another good tip I got for soloing with a fast walking swing tune came from our BL, who sings and plays killer blues guitar and harp. He said to keep the walking aspect strong at all times, don't do too much extra, and don't do something that takes you out of the walk. That also works.
How about you all? Whaddaya got for tips for soloing when you're not the best at it?
First off my inability to slap after I switched to a right handed playing, had taken me to the realm of no solo land 
I later added finger style solos during some songs, but any time I wanted to add a solo it was written out and rarely on the fly.
I recently got the "take it" during SRV Pride and Joy and though what I did was appreciated, it was in no way a stellar solo to be proud of.
I ran home and wrote a little something for the next time hopefully it won't fall on deaf ears. There's nothing worse than taking a solo and getting no crowd reaction for your efforts.
I later added finger style solos during some songs, but any time I wanted to add a solo it was written out and rarely on the fly.
I recently got the "take it" during SRV Pride and Joy and though what I did was appreciated, it was in no way a stellar solo to be proud of.
I ran home and wrote a little something for the next time hopefully it won't fall on deaf ears. There's nothing worse than taking a solo and getting no crowd reaction for your efforts.
A few ideas on this subject:
1) Play chord notes
2) Play few notes.
3) Play 'your' version of the melody, simplifying where appropriate/necessary.
4) play with phrasing and time just as much as notes.
Most importantly...breathe and don't stop listening to what ever else is going on.
1) Play chord notes
2) Play few notes.
3) Play 'your' version of the melody, simplifying where appropriate/necessary.
4) play with phrasing and time just as much as notes.
Most importantly...breathe and don't stop listening to what ever else is going on.
WARNING: If you hate bass soloing and think it's a waste of time, this thread is not for you, so go find another or I will insult the size of your naughty bits.
Not to brag, but I have a lot of skill
So when joining this band where the lead guitarist is a monster whose crazy speed and dexterity is only exceeded by his sense of melody, I felt like a complete yutz stumbling over stuff I couldn't pull off in a desperate attempt to keep up. So I had to figure out an alternate strategy.
Decided to rely almost entirely on being melodic. If I want to do something difficult, I stick with what I can play in my sleep and I don't reach any further beyond that without practicing it till I have it. I came across an old BP interview with a bassist who spent years backing up Les Paul at his regular Monday night gig in NYC in his later years. He said that lots of bigtime celebrity guitarists would come sit in and solo, and play crazy stuff that Les could no longer play due to arthritis, and it would come back around to him and he'd slay the house by playing the melody of the song. Hmmm...that could work.
And it does! I even occasionally get applause for my solos now. I'll try to mix it up a tad as well, but I always rely on the melody to guide me in what to play. Turns out it's a fantastic strategy to make yourself look like you know what you're doing soloing after you just went through two minutes hearing one of the best jazz guitarists you'll ever hear.
Another good tip I got for soloing with a fast walking swing tune came from our BL, who sings and plays killer blues guitar and harp. He said to keep the walking aspect strong at all times, don't do too much extra, and don't do something that takes you out of the walk. That also works.
How about you all? Whaddaya got for tips for soloing when you're not the best at it?
First: Do it a lot. The only way to get better at something is to practice.
Second: Record yourself. You really need to be critical of your playing in order to improve in this area, asking questions like "why does this part make sense in the context of the song?" or "what am I trying to say here?"
Third: Know your theory. As with thinking and speaking, if you have a limited vocabulary, you won't be able to say much. In particular focus on how to create and resolve musical tension (dissonance, stretching time, etc).
Fourth: Know the music you're playing. REALLY know it, like be able to sing any part of it and be able to move between parts and elaborate them without breaking the flow. Because that's what you'll be doing when you're soloing.
Fifth: Practice by singing. Guitarists and bassists can make sound without deliberately thinking about it, but singers can't. You have to be choosing your notes, rather than letting your fingers choose them, if your solo is going to be worth anything at all.
Sixth: Things like sweep picking (if you pick), tapping, and long glissandos demonstrate technical facility, and are cool ways to add drama, but your job is still to serve the song, so use them judiciously.
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I suck at soloing but what little I have done comes off as at least acceptable. I stick to the key and melody and add some octave range (above/below what the song is typically).
One thing I like to do is insert another song riff that is familiar (not genre specific). For example, during Roadhouse Blues dropping in Jack Bruce's "Spoonful" line.
I like simplicity and generally, I think people just want to hear the bass groovin so they can bob their heads.
I know my limitations and if I could do more I would. That's why I practice. Maybe (doubtfully), one day I'll approach the abilities of Victor, Janek or Andy Irvine etc...
One thing I like to do is insert another song riff that is familiar (not genre specific). For example, during Roadhouse Blues dropping in Jack Bruce's "Spoonful" line.
I like simplicity and generally, I think people just want to hear the bass groovin so they can bob their heads.
I know my limitations and if I could do more I would. That's why I practice. Maybe (doubtfully), one day I'll approach the abilities of Victor, Janek or Andy Irvine etc...
It's been said before, but I like a repetitive melody.
I also like to play against a drone/open string. Usually playing on the D under a droning open A. But sometimes up the neck on the same string I'm using for a drone.
(But... I'm still very much learning my way around the bass. My guess is I'm applying stuff from my early days playing guitar in '85 a'la The Edge?)
I play in a 3 piece, so to my ear, any solo type spot can create a "hole" in the landscape that needs filled.
I also like to play against a drone/open string. Usually playing on the D under a droning open A. But sometimes up the neck on the same string I'm using for a drone.
(But... I'm still very much learning my way around the bass. My guess is I'm applying stuff from my early days playing guitar in '85 a'la The Edge?)
I play in a 3 piece, so to my ear, any solo type spot can create a "hole" in the landscape that needs filled.
I usually just get a little trickier with the rhythm and call it good lol.
