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Soloing When You're Not Good At Soloing
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
I usually like the band to completely drop out for my solos (except the drums), so no comping from anyone, and I’ll often start by just grooving out on the regular bass line for a little while and see where it goes. It’s very organic and patient, and it leaves lots of room to build it up. It also gives you some time to think of where you want to actually go with it, so the solo comes more from your head and not all muscle memory chops. I mean, let’s face it, most people in the crowd aren’t particularly listening to us anyway, so having the other instruments drop out and simply shifting their focus to the already moving bass line is a literal bass solo, even if you don’t change what you’re already doing at all. It sounds cool.
A lot of guys feel like they must immediately launch bass rockets at the crowd from the very first note. I know I tended to do that in my earlier years, and I eventually realized that I usually did it not because it sounded better, but just because I was being put on the spot, and I didn’t feel comfortable yet. So I needed to figure out a way to calm myself down, and this led to much better (and longer) solos that take more of a journey, than just a blast of “look how fast my fingers can move”.
A lot of guys feel like they must immediately launch bass rockets at the crowd from the very first note. I know I tended to do that in my earlier years, and I eventually realized that I usually did it not because it sounded better, but just because I was being put on the spot, and I didn’t feel comfortable yet. So I needed to figure out a way to calm myself down, and this led to much better (and longer) solos that take more of a journey, than just a blast of “look how fast my fingers can move”.
WARNING: If you hate bass soloing and think it's a waste of time, this thread is not for you, so go find another or I will insult the size of your naughty bits.
Not to brag, but I have a lot of skillI'm solid, I'm no speed demon but I'm pretty good at difficult parts and figuring out complex and difficult-to-play music, I can sightread pretty well, I'm great at spotting problems with the arrangements and fixing them, and I have good ideas for the most part and can come up with mostly solid working parts on the fly for most popular genres. My one drawback is improv soloing. Nobody is ever going to hear my solos and marvel at their complex and superhuman brilliance. I know...I've attempted it before and nobody marveled, though a few did give me points for the attempt. But the number one law of music is when someone says "Take it," you take it!
So when joining this band where the lead guitarist is a monster whose crazy speed and dexterity is only exceeded by his sense of melody, I felt like a complete yutz stumbling over stuff I couldn't pull off in a desperate attempt to keep up. So I had to figure out an alternate strategy.
Decided to rely almost entirely on being melodic. If I want to do something difficult, I stick with what I can play in my sleep and I don't reach any further beyond that without practicing it till I have it. I came across an old BP interview with a bassist who spent years backing up Les Paul at his regular Monday night gig in NYC in his later years. He said that lots of bigtime celebrity guitarists would come sit in and solo, and play crazy stuff that Les could no longer play due to arthritis, and it would come back around to him and he'd slay the house by playing the melody of the song. Hmmm...that could work.
And it does! I even occasionally get applause for my solos now. I'll try to mix it up a tad as well, but I always rely on the melody to guide me in what to play. Turns out it's a fantastic strategy to make yourself look like you know what you're doing soloing after you just went through two minutes hearing one of the best jazz guitarists you'll ever hear.
Another good tip I got for soloing with a fast walking swing tune came from our BL, who sings and plays killer blues guitar and harp. He said to keep the walking aspect strong at all times, don't do too much extra, and don't do something that takes you out of the walk. That also works.
How about you all? Whaddaya got for tips for soloing when you're not the best at it?
Hey Jimmy
Based on your post, I'd say this makes you a really GOOD soloist! Melodic speed is amazing, and I love it. But Melodic non-speed is also amazing, and much more challenging to do well because EVERY NOTE COUNTS
I'm impressed by both equally, as long as it's done well.
I'm slowing down as I age - and can't wank as effectively any more (no jokes please ;-) ). I have always enjoying improvising melodies, and building a solo up.... it takes real focus though... and by no means do I always do it well.
Good choices, and happy it's working out so well for ya!
In the words of Lennon = "Turn off your mind, relax, and float downstream....."
That's all I got.
I get asked to solo all the time, and I'm not comfortable with it at all. But like Jimmy sez ="When someone sez "take it"; you GO!
Have never played/learned a melody. I play what I want to hear primarily starting off letting my fingers play a pattern and taking off from there using ears 'til I need another lick/riff/pattern. Knowing the chords and the progreesion can weave something out of that; using a balance of playing something "automatically" and hearing/directing a line from that. For me it's half and half. This is a not a recommendation; it's just explaining what I do. Have never been "booed" so there's that, but if I never had to do another solo it'd be OK with me. They are fun though, and I guess playing whatever you want in a competent and enjoyable manner (for YOU and everybody listening) is what it's all about!
With rock/pop/country/blues I never use paper so it's outer space time. With rock a little distortion seems to help cover a multitude of sins - dunno why.
With jazz paper is my crutch :/ mostly because of more complex chords/voicings and more challenging progressions. I work on hearing all the time, though. Soloing for jazz with paper it's mostly a matter of weaving through the progression and hooking up tones in an interesting way - walking and taking things beyond a bit with licks and phrases/sequences. Also with paper the melody can be on the page - like if reading out of a fake book - so if you are fairly competent at reading treble clef, there ya go. I still never play the melody. Personally I figure by the time I get to solo the piano player has taken the melody through about 10 rounds, the horn player has taken another few rounds of exploring the melody, and perhaps the guitar has quoted the melody a bunch, (and if you have a singer..... duh). By the time it's my turn I want nothing to do with the melody. You are going to hear some bass ----- deal.
That's all I got.
I get asked to solo all the time, and I'm not comfortable with it at all. But like Jimmy sez ="When someone sez "take it"; you GO!
Have never played/learned a melody. I play what I want to hear primarily starting off letting my fingers play a pattern and taking off from there using ears 'til I need another lick/riff/pattern. Knowing the chords and the progreesion can weave something out of that; using a balance of playing something "automatically" and hearing/directing a line from that. For me it's half and half. This is a not a recommendation; it's just explaining what I do. Have never been "booed" so there's that, but if I never had to do another solo it'd be OK with me. They are fun though, and I guess playing whatever you want in a competent and enjoyable manner (for YOU and everybody listening) is what it's all about!
With rock/pop/country/blues I never use paper so it's outer space time. With rock a little distortion seems to help cover a multitude of sins - dunno why.
With jazz paper is my crutch :/ mostly because of more complex chords/voicings and more challenging progressions. I work on hearing all the time, though. Soloing for jazz with paper it's mostly a matter of weaving through the progression and hooking up tones in an interesting way - walking and taking things beyond a bit with licks and phrases/sequences. Also with paper the melody can be on the page - like if reading out of a fake book - so if you are fairly competent at reading treble clef, there ya go. I still never play the melody. Personally I figure by the time I get to solo the piano player has taken the melody through about 10 rounds, the horn player has taken another few rounds of exploring the melody, and perhaps the guitar has quoted the melody a bunch, (and if you have a singer..... duh). By the time it's my turn I want nothing to do with the melody. You are going to hear some bass ----- deal.
WARNING: If you hate bass soloing and think it's a waste of time, this thread is not for you, so go find another or I will insult the size of your naughty bits.
Not to brag, but I have a lot of skill
So when joining this band where the lead guitarist is a monster whose crazy speed and dexterity is only exceeded by his sense of melody, I felt like a complete yutz stumbling over stuff I couldn't pull off in a desperate attempt to keep up. So I had to figure out an alternate strategy.
Decided to rely almost entirely on being melodic. If I want to do something difficult, I stick with what I can play in my sleep and I don't reach any further beyond that without practicing it till I have it. I came across an old BP interview with a bassist who spent years backing up Les Paul at his regular Monday night gig in NYC in his later years. He said that lots of bigtime celebrity guitarists would come sit in and solo, and play crazy stuff that Les could no longer play due to arthritis, and it would come back around to him and he'd slay the house by playing the melody of the song. Hmmm...that could work.
And it does! I even occasionally get applause for my solos now. I'll try to mix it up a tad as well, but I always rely on the melody to guide me in what to play. Turns out it's a fantastic strategy to make yourself look like you know what you're doing soloing after you just went through two minutes hearing one of the best jazz guitarists you'll ever hear.
Another good tip I got for soloing with a fast walking swing tune came from our BL, who sings and plays killer blues guitar and harp. He said to keep the walking aspect strong at all times, don't do too much extra, and don't do something that takes you out of the walk. That also works.
How about you all? Whaddaya got for tips for soloing when you're not the best at it?
Start them simple and in the groove and don't venture beyond what you know your capabilities are, many people including me try to put everything they know into a solo which lasts a minute or two, always hold back a little until right near the very end.
I HATE soloing but the spotlight happens, so...
I solo as if I were the lead guitarist, playing a melody along with the chord changes. I do NOT like those that break the groove or the drive and just do fiddly bits. The one obstacle that is tough to get over is that the rest of the band has the idea that they have to break it down and play quietly which just pulls the rug right out from under me. If the song is groovin an jammin to the point where it's rime for a bass solo, there is no reasonto stop groovin an jammin.
I solo as if I were the lead guitarist, playing a melody along with the chord changes. I do NOT like those that break the groove or the drive and just do fiddly bits. The one obstacle that is tough to get over is that the rest of the band has the idea that they have to break it down and play quietly which just pulls the rug right out from under me. If the song is groovin an jammin to the point where it's rime for a bass solo, there is no reasonto stop groovin an jammin.
I kinda go from here, except I don't think too much about chord tones, I just kinda audiate the melody, or a skeleton thereof, and flesh everything out from there. Come to think of it, that's kinda just what I do in general - I think about the melody, what chords are being played, and what the drummer is doing, and I try to think from there about what direction is good to go from there.
most of the time it's just a nod in your general direction! it's "law" because it's expected that you'll shine in some way and make the BL a star for having you on his set! (it's also "law" because everyone else on the bandstand expects a little break from 'thinking'/working/blowing/yada yada. most of the time: the bass solo allows everyone else to 'reset'...players expect this!)
I would have done the same. In this business, 1 bad showing can mess up a career so quick it can spin your mind. Great that there could be another meeting.
My post Pt2....
1.Hearing the melody of the turn helps me...I actually hum it when learning the chord changes. I actually learn the melody on bass which was also my great leap in Soloing... You can always sort of refer to it when I don’t have any ideas at that moment.
2. I also study with guys who IMHO are great soloists as well and sidemen.this has helped a lot!
Here is a live improvised solo in real time with the “tape” on for a CD recorded live
last summer. I was hired and no idea I was getting a solo on the sobg.
It’s not my best or worst but it was me at the moment with a song that was recorded for a singer this past summer. I did not know the song in this key so I am prolly a little “light “ on the changes in this key.
Solo around 1:24
It Could Happen To You
Jim, it sounds from your posts that you have made great strides since starting and wish you continued success.
we are all still a work in progress !
1.Hearing the melody of the turn helps me...I actually hum it when learning the chord changes. I actually learn the melody on bass which was also my great leap in Soloing... You can always sort of refer to it when I don’t have any ideas at that moment.
2. I also study with guys who IMHO are great soloists as well and sidemen.this has helped a lot!
Here is a live improvised solo in real time with the “tape” on for a CD recorded live
last summer. I was hired and no idea I was getting a solo on the sobg.
It’s not my best or worst but it was me at the moment with a song that was recorded for a singer this past summer. I did not know the song in this key so I am prolly a little “light “ on the changes in this key.
Solo around 1:24
It Could Happen To You
Jim, it sounds from your posts that you have made great strides since starting and wish you continued success.
we are all still a work in progress !
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Some nights I play great and just suck the solo's and other nights nail it. Seems to be almost random
One fallback I always do is stop for a beat or two and play w dynamics somewhere in there. No matter the level of suckness that seems to get the applause
One fallback I always do is stop for a beat or two and play w dynamics somewhere in there. No matter the level of suckness that seems to get the applause
Well…I don’t really have a music career (of sorts) anymore. These days I just consider myself a musician who mainly plays bass.
But I do have a lot of respect for this guy and his band. They had the audience done to a turn, and despite me feeling lousy, I was really enjoying the evening. As was everyone else. So why do anything that could possibly jeopardize it, right?
Sometimes ego and desire has to take a backseat to doing the right thing under the circumstances.
In jazz, the world class players...and there are hundreds if not thousands of them alive at any one time...are making it up on the spot. Or at least trying their best to do so and only falling back on licks when they hit the brick wall.
There are some crazy advanced improvisers out there, like the late pianist Paul Bley or saxophonist Lee Konitz who can freely improvise stuff that sounds like a jazz standard you never heard before. I got to see both of them playing together twice and it was mind boggling. I'm not talking about what most people think of as "free jazz", either. Every song they played eventually revealed itself as either a warhorse standard or a blues but it wasn't clear until about 2/3 of the way through the tune when allusions to the melody would suddenly emerge. The heads were never played! Imagine a 12 bar blues where you can't even hear the 12 bar form for 5 minutes due to extreme reharmonizations...well, they played it. They were coming up with melodic phrases of more than 12 or even 32 bars spanning multiple choruses. That sort of playing is really inspiring to hear.
BTW, while Paul Bley certainly spent a lot of time working on his craft, in his memoirs he mentioned he had stopped practicing the piano altogether because every night on the gig the piano would be different requiring him to adjust his playing approach. Those of you who have experienced sitting in on a gig using someone else's bass that doesn't respond like your own will understand what he meant. Now think about soloing every night on a strange bass yet killing it...that's something I will never experience
WARNING: If you hate bass soloing and think it's a waste of time, this thread is not for you, so go find another or I will insult the size of your naughty bits.
Not to brag, but I have a lot of skill
So when joining this band where the lead guitarist is a monster whose crazy speed and dexterity is only exceeded by his sense of melody, I felt like a complete yutz stumbling over stuff I couldn't pull off in a desperate attempt to keep up. So I had to figure out an alternate strategy.
Decided to rely almost entirely on being melodic. If I want to do something difficult, I stick with what I can play in my sleep and I don't reach any further beyond that without practicing it till I have it. I came across an old BP interview with a bassist who spent years backing up Les Paul at his regular Monday night gig in NYC in his later years. He said that lots of bigtime celebrity guitarists would come sit in and solo, and play crazy stuff that Les could no longer play due to arthritis, and it would come back around to him and he'd slay the house by playing the melody of the song. Hmmm...that could work.
And it does! I even occasionally get applause for my solos now. I'll try to mix it up a tad as well, but I always rely on the melody to guide me in what to play. Turns out it's a fantastic strategy to make yourself look like you know what you're doing soloing after you just went through two minutes hearing one of the best jazz guitarists you'll ever hear.
Another good tip I got for soloing with a fast walking swing tune came from our BL, who sings and plays killer blues guitar and harp. He said to keep the walking aspect strong at all times, don't do too much extra, and don't do something that takes you out of the walk. That also works.
How about you all? Whaddaya got for tips for soloing when you're not the best at it?
Great thread. I'm still more of a sax player than bass player so, for me, having solos thrown in my direction was pretty much the norm every night over the years when I was gigging. To start with I found this REALLY hard... lots of playing scales over chord changes in the hope that I wouldn't sound obviously terrible. The breakthrough for me came when I realised that having a dozen or so interesting and cool 1 or 2 bar licks and shapes imprinted in my brain and fingers - and learning them in all 12 keys - goes a long way when interspersed with simple lines that build on the melody.
I read somewhere that this was how Michael Brecker used to build up his soloing repertoire... as part of his daily practice routine, he'd jam around ideas, and if he landed on a lick he liked, he'd write it down, transcribe it into all keys and add to his daily practice book. There is a lot less spontaneity to a great "take it" spontaneous solo than it might seem... much of it is stitching together pre-learnt shapes. Also, space is important... so an even balance between simple lines (inverting the melody always works IME), flashy licks and just the right amount of space (which is where Miles just rocked it, as a previous poster mentioned).
Also, in jazz, don't underestimate just carrying on walking when the band drops out but moving around between octaves with the odd grace note. So, not a lot of fireworks but good solid quarter notes that sustain the groove and melody chord map. In fact, given that most people in the audience aren't that aware of the bassline when the band's at full tilt, sometimes just playing *exactly* what you were already playing when subsumed by all the other instruments will do the job and get a round of applause ;-)
Most of my solos are only a few measures long. So far, I've played a slightly modified version of the bass line, but I like @JimmyM 's idea of playing the melody. I often think in those terms anyway, and a stripped-down minimalist version of the melody would carry the solo pretty nicely.
When you do this, do you tend to think modally (chord scales)? If time is not a factor this is one example of when this can be handy and helps me with options so I don’t have to think as much.
Just wondering if your head is working similarly.
