Soloing When You're Not Good At Soloing

[Ric Vice]

All good advice. However, if you don’t have time to assimilate chords, scales, arpeggios in all 12 key, here’s how I prep.

1. Pick a tune you like and already know. As Jimmy Durante said “I got a million of em” and you do.

2. learn the melody

3. move it up and down 1/2 step from it’s original key. More different keys if you have time.

4. Use the bass line you have played all your life as a solo. Walter Paige ( Count Basie) made a career out of this.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Get out a looper pedal, play a progression and then:
Practice, Practice, Practice.

And in the words of Carlos Santana on soloing, "If you're thinkin' your stinkin' ".
Good luck,
Dirk

 

[interp]

Soloing is probably the least strong of my skills, but I generally don’t mind it IF I feel I have something to say. To me soloing is about communicating a feeling; there is nothing more tedious than listening to a soloist who doesn’t really have anything to say.

 

[Johnny StingRay]

Fly Me To The Moon is the first song I learned to solo on starting with the melody, taking it “outside” working through the chord progressions, then bring it back to the melody to pass it off to the next soloist or close the song.
When I take it “outside” I mix my own licks with phrases I’ve learned from Carol Kaye’s red jazz phrases book and her jazz improv book.
I apply what I learned from that first experience to any other song I solo on.

 

[marmadaddy]

Oh boy, a thread about me!
Up until my current gig, I've never been in a situation where I was asked to solo. I'm not very good at it.

Now I play in an R&B band with a drummer, keyboard player, guitar player and two sax players who all have heavy jazz backgrounds and they can each solo all night long and just kill. The band's been around for 25 years and has a history of bassists who take multiple solos every night.

This terrified me. The first year in this band I made the mistake of trying to impress the rest of the band. The result was not good. It doesn't help that the traditional bass solo spot in the set is the intro of I Wish, which is in Eb minor. No open strings.

Now I've learned to do what's been suggested here. Keep it simple and don't try to compete with the guys who were transcribing Coltrane solos twenty years ago. Melody, melody, melody. Plan it out a little beforehand. Maybe a little fast slapping for effect. And remember that while I'm not a great soloist, I am solid, funky, reasonably creative, very reliable, well prepared and I sing pretty well. Those are the things that get me hired.

 

[Honkey tonk]

Cannot be overlooked by any means! There's a lot to be said for playing with confidence. I'm almost there.

sell it without overselling it .
it should sell its self .






Dynamics

 

[brianrost]

Another lousy soloist. My choices (in order of importance):

1. Improv on the melody (if I know it)

2. Licks and phrases built on the chords (including quotes from other tunes)

3. Continue the existing bass line but add variations (esp. for funk tunes)

4. Yell "give the drummer some"

 

[REV]

This is a great thread with a lot of intelligent insights. One thing I would add is the use of dynamics. Playing loud and then soft (or vice versa) can be very effective. I think sometimes finding a counter melody that fits in with whatever tune is being played is also fun. Quoting from some other seemingly unrelated tune can sometimes inspire the other players to try and do the same.

 

[nickpc]

My solos, when they happen, tend to be me playing what I've been playing with everyone else backing off so it's out front. If I'm feeling fancy I'll walk up an octave and play the riff there. To "spice it up" even more I may double-time it where I hit two notes of half the duration of the notes I was playing - quarters become two eights, etc - then do the run up an octave (or two if I'm really feeling it), speed riff on the root, walk back down, and resume. 8 or 12 measures max. Have me solo 3 times in a gig you'll get that formula 3 times. It will always fit the song, and I can fit it in just about anywhere.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Interesting that this thread just popped up for me. I was about to post a similar one, and still will. I've been given the opportunity to do a SOLO solo at a pretty big gig coming up in March. Like yourself, I don't even like doing solos when the entire band is involved.

Truth be told... I'm terrified, but I'm a guy who likes to face my fears. I won't attempt to hijack this thread with that stuff though...

I was fortunate to get to see Les Paul at that NYC place you mentioned (Fat Tuesday) not long before he passed away. Someone famous did actually sit in with him for a few songs the night I was there, too - but I can't think of his name right now.

 

[ChrisBowsman]

Here's Paul Kowert of The Punch Brothers demonstrating how to tastefully solo without dropping the groove.

Bass solo section at approx 2:30, but the whole song is incredible.

 

[Lava]

Great stuff!
After 30+ yrs of playing rock, R&B, disco and funk, a favorite drummer in my life and I decided a while back that we'd live the later years in our lives doing smaller jazz combo gigs. I've only now started getting back into jazz and as someone else mentioned, soloing terrifies me. But only because I don't do it very well. Now 6 months of lessons later, I've hit a plateau with soloing and all this info in this thread is super useful!

 

[bbh]

WARNING: If you hate bass soloing and think it's a waste of time, this thread is not for you, so go find another or I will insult the size of your naughty bits.

Not to brag, but I have a lot of skill I'm solid, I'm no speed demon but I'm pretty good at difficult parts and figuring out complex and difficult-to-play music, I can sightread pretty well, I'm great at spotting problems with the arrangements and fixing them, and I have good ideas for the most part and can come up with mostly solid working parts on the fly for most popular genres. My one drawback is improv soloing. Nobody is ever going to hear my solos and marvel at their complex and superhuman brilliance. I know...I've attempted it before and nobody marveled, though a few did give me points for the attempt. But the number one law of music is when someone says "Take it," you take it!

So when joining this band where the lead guitarist is a monster whose crazy speed and dexterity is only exceeded by his sense of melody, I felt like a complete yutz stumbling over stuff I couldn't pull off in a desperate attempt to keep up. So I had to figure out an alternate strategy.

Decided to rely almost entirely on being melodic. If I want to do something difficult, I stick with what I can play in my sleep and I don't reach any further beyond that without practicing it till I have it. I came across an old BP interview with a bassist who spent years backing up Les Paul at his regular Monday night gig in NYC in his later years. He said that lots of bigtime celebrity guitarists would come sit in and solo, and play crazy stuff that Les could no longer play due to arthritis, and it would come back around to him and he'd slay the house by playing the melody of the song. Hmmm...that could work.

And it does! I even occasionally get applause for my solos now. I'll try to mix it up a tad as well, but I always rely on the melody to guide me in what to play. Turns out it's a fantastic strategy to make yourself look like you know what you're doing soloing after you just went through two minutes hearing one of the best jazz guitarists you'll ever hear.

Another good tip I got for soloing with a fast walking swing tune came from our BL, who sings and plays killer blues guitar and harp. He said to keep the walking aspect strong at all times, don't do too much extra, and don't do something that takes you out of the walk. That also works.

How about you all? Whaddaya got for tips for soloing when you're not the best at it?

Another thing to try is go for style and pleasing notes only. I get by on my choices, no blistering techniques as that isn’t my strongest point. So sometimes, I’ll try nothing faster than quarter notes. Then again, one in a while, I will go nuts depending on the effects I’d be using that day. I do it off the top off my head so how I’m feeling has a lot of input.

 

[40Hz]

Truth be told... I'm terrified, but I'm a guy who likes to face my fears.

It’s one thing to be willing to face your fears. But you also (I think) need to be realistically aware of your limitations.

I declined to sit in on a few numbers with a name act at the Iridium in NYC a few months ago. Bugged me saying “maybe next time” because it’s been awhile since I played with someone of that caliber and reputation at NYC club. But I had been feeling lousy for the previous week and been running a mild fever since the day before. So I hadn’t touched a bass in about three days. And the show was absolutely smoking hot that night. So I had to decide between doing a Hail Mary and risk making it the low point of the evening for everyone in the place, or being responsible and acknowledging I wasn’t up to the offer that night.

I got a chance to hang with the headliner after the show and I explained why I didn’t take him up on his kind offer. He told me he really appreciated me doing that - and that there definitely would be a next time.

As one of my mentors once told me: Every day brings its challenges and opportunities to do battle. The important thing is to pick your venues.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Also, a good practice tip is grabbing the omnibook, isolate 2 bar phrases of sothing like a ii V7 I and practice it in all 12 keys.

You're bound to strike gold.

 

[jellymax]

Knowing where to start can be difficult .
Maybe learn the Jimmy Blanton solo.
Then, take an easy tune from your
Set list, then find a Ray brown recording of the tune. Step 2. Steal his solo!

 

[TheDirtyLowDown]

Lots of good advice here, so I'm obviously piling on, but I'm struggling with exactly this same issue right now, so I wanted to add my two cents worth.

One sax player we work with is always obsessing over "I play this scale over this part, and that scale over the other part" kinds of things. My advice to him has been to think less about that and more about what you want to say with your solo. Play the melody. Play something derived from the melody. Hit one screaming note and believe in it, etc.

I'm trying to give myself that same advice. I struggle most with WHAT I want to say in a solo and somewhat less with HOW to say it. By that I mean -- if you write/play me a bass part and say "now you play it" I can work to do that. I can learn a Jaco solo. I can learn a Victor Wooten solo. But I'm struggling to find my solo voice.

So I'm wrestling with what that should be. The bass (or sax, or guitar or any instrument) solos I love the most have a story to tell, a structure or form, and they're using all the dynamic and lyrical tools in the soloist's toolbox to make that happen.

What I've been doing lately is learning to play the melody for every tune I play, as if the bass was the only instrument. And I've picked out bass solos that have a beautiful shape (lately, I'm working on some Charlie Haden solos from the Metheny/Haden Beyond the Missouri Sky album) and I am learning them. Not just in a "I can play it" way, but investigating how they connect to or depart from the melody.

I'm hoping that some insight from that will find its way into my playing one day. And I'm trying as hard as I can to avoid "play this scale, really fast" kinds of things in my solos, for now at least, and instead trying to keep them grooving, and melodic.

Good luck, and thanks for an interesting read...

 

[phillipkregg]

To me, what's really strange about bass solos is the tendency for the rest of the band to just completely drop out.

Bass is usually a supportive instrument, so by that definition, they are also the least likely to be the best candidates for solos. But, ironically, when it comes time to take a solo you're completely on your own with no support.

This usually isn't such a big problem in jazz ensembles where people know how to comp no matter who is soloing - and it's also not unusual for the bass to have a solo spot.

My best advice, if you're playing Top 40, rock, country, or other music where you don't typically solo but may be occasionally called on to do one, is train your band-mates on how to support you.

You will be a much, much better soloist if you have something to play against. The guitarist can drop their volume and maybe turn off the overdrive and play simple chords behind you. If you have a keyboardist, have them play some soft pads that you can hear. Have the drummer keep a consistent, but not too complex pattern going.

Sometimes people just don't know what to do, and bass frequencies can get kinda muddy or washed out on stage so they think they're doing you a favor by all dropping out, but in reality it makes it much more difficult.

 

[Carl Hillman]

WARNING: If you hate bass soloing and think it's a waste of time, this thread is not for you, so go find another or I will insult the size of your naughty bits.

Not to brag, but I have a lot of skill I'm solid, I'm no speed demon but I'm pretty good at difficult parts and figuring out complex and difficult-to-play music, I can sightread pretty well, I'm great at spotting problems with the arrangements and fixing them, and I have good ideas for the most part and can come up with mostly solid working parts on the fly for most popular genres. My one drawback is improv soloing. Nobody is ever going to hear my solos and marvel at their complex and superhuman brilliance. I know...I've attempted it before and nobody marveled, though a few did give me points for the attempt. But the number one law of music is when someone says "Take it," you take it!

So when joining this band where the lead guitarist is a monster whose crazy speed and dexterity is only exceeded by his sense of melody, I felt like a complete yutz stumbling over stuff I couldn't pull off in a desperate attempt to keep up. So I had to figure out an alternate strategy.

Decided to rely almost entirely on being melodic. If I want to do something difficult, I stick with what I can play in my sleep and I don't reach any further beyond that without practicing it till I have it. I came across an old BP interview with a bassist who spent years backing up Les Paul at his regular Monday night gig in NYC in his later years. He said that lots of bigtime celebrity guitarists would come sit in and solo, and play crazy stuff that Les could no longer play due to arthritis, and it would come back around to him and he'd slay the house by playing the melody of the song. Hmmm...that could work.

And it does! I even occasionally get applause for my solos now. I'll try to mix it up a tad as well, but I always rely on the melody to guide me in what to play. Turns out it's a fantastic strategy to make yourself look like you know what you're doing soloing after you just went through two minutes hearing one of the best jazz guitarists you'll ever hear.

Another good tip I got for soloing with a fast walking swing tune came from our BL, who sings and plays killer blues guitar and harp. He said to keep the walking aspect strong at all times, don't do too much extra, and don't do something that takes you out of the walk. That also works.

How about you all? Whaddaya got for tips for soloing when you're not the best at it?

When Miles Davis, as a young man, was faced with following Charlie Parker's solos nightly, he struggled mightily to match the peerless technical prowess that Bird and Dizzy Gillespie had attained.

He eventually realized that path was a dead end for him, and he became a master at using tone and space to create something equally musical and uniquely personal.

Listen to the way Miles solos...how he draws listeners in and plays with their expectations by NOT playing a zillion notes. Especially listen to the way he plays ballads.

 

[konfyouzd]

Don't be afraid of your own clichés. The audience doesn't know you use that lick all the time.

This gets in my head so badly some days.