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Some Shade from Ron Carter

#241
teh-slb said:
The isolated excerpt from "Soul on Top"? Call me crazy, but I actually liked (parts of) it :laugh:
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No I won't...call you crazy, but to me the bass sounds borderline incompetent. I feel polite, saying 'borderline'.
What I like about it is that some players that hear this and read, Ray Brown played it might feel a little better about their own playing now.
 
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#243
This wasn't released. It's the isolated bass track, not the actual release. The bass is far more forward in the mix

Reminds of when someone commented on Chris Squire in an isolated bass track.... "Wow, couldn't he play clean?".

Completely missing the point.
 
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#244
teh-slb said:
If that quote starting at the 2:45 mark is correct, Christian McBride stated that "Ray was right in the pocket" with James Brown.
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Did he hear this track before making the statement you refer to?
(Which quote at 2:45?...I may have missed something.)
To be fair...McB talks about Brown being in the pocket on the Album. Maybe he was on some other tunes?
 
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#247
cnltb said:
Well it made it to youtube.
Let me re-phrase...how did this bass take not get erased right after being recorded?
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As an isolated bass track.

Why would it get erased, it's what James Brown wanted and a big part of why it was a hit?

Listen to the actual release, not the example put up to highlight what Ray did. aka "isolated".

I remember reading an interview with Leland Sklar years ago. Pointing out what sounds clean and pretty may not be what's desired to cut through in the mix. People mistakenly look for bedroom tone in recordings, it's why some are far more successful at it than others.

The insults to his playing are to be expected. In the meantime he's on a classic loved by millions that also informed generations of bassists after him. I'd take that.
 
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#249
Brad Johnson said:
As an isolated bass track.

Why would it get erased, it's what James Brown wanted and a big part of why it was a hit?

Listen to the actual release, not the example put up to highlight what Ray did. aka "isolated".

I remember reading an interview with Leland Sklar years ago. Pointing out what sounds clean and pretty may not be what's desired to cut through in the mix. People mistakenly look for bedroom tone in recordings, it's why some are dark more successful at it than others.

The insults to his playing are to be expected. In the meantime he's on a classic loved by millions that also informed generations of bassists after him. I'd take that.
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I agree 100% that 'what sounds clean and pretty may not be what's desired to cut through in the mix. '. In this case the playing is simply off (including some notes, as in: pitches).
Never mind. I will re listen to the proper album again and hear what's what.
 
#250
Brad Johnson said:
Look for Chris Squire isolated bass on YouTube.

People hear stuff in the mix and mistakenly think that the track is clean because the edge and rawness isn't isolated . They think that fret buzz is the enemy when in fact it was a huge component of his playing.
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I just did listen to a few squire and bruford isolated tracks. Playing was 'on' on all of them.
Hence my request for the specific track. There may very well be a 'dudd' somewhere too.
 
#251
cnltb said:
I agree 100% that 'what sounds clean and pretty may not be what's desired to cut through in the mix. '. In this case the playing is simply off (including some notes, as in: pitches).
Never mind. I will re listen to the proper album again and hear what's what.
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I completely disagree that the playing is off. It may bother folks who are looking for more rigid playing, the opposite of JB. Groove is not stiff and predictable

And by all means don't listen to any of Paul McCartney's early Beatles isolated tracks.

There are lessons in these tracks. Great lessons.
 
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#255
cnltb said:
How is whataboutism going to help anyone?
This is about a specific track, how about we keep it that way. Otherwise this is getting completely derailed.
Fair enough we briefly talked Squire.
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This is not whataboutism. They're all examples of some folks not seeing the forest for the trees. The forest is the end product, not the isolated ingedients. If that is of no interest to you, cool. It might help someone else.
 
#256
cnltb said:
I sure heard that.
The rattle and grating sound just adds texture whilst the playing( phrasing, dynamics, note choices) is 'on'.
It is not Browns sound I have an issue with. His playing is off. That's what I am talking about
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Did you listen to it in context yet? If not... you're still missing my point. Recorded bass and recorded bass in the mix are not necessarily the same thing. The isolated track was never meant to be isolated. Just like Squire's rattles.
 
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#257
Brad Johnson said:
This is not whataboutism. They're all examples of some folks not seeing the forest for the trees. The forest is the end product, not the isolated ingedients. If that is of no interest to you, cool. It might help someone else.
Click to expand...
I just listened to the James brown album track and still find the bass playing off. But Yes, it doesn't stand out at all, which helps. And yes, it's a fun track over all.
 
#258
Brad Johnson said:
Did you listen to it in context yet? If not... you're still missing my point. Recorded bass and recorded bass in the mix are not necessarily the same thing. The isolated track was never meant to be isolated. Just like Squire's rattles.
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I completely get your point. That doesn't excuse bad playing.
Track would have been even more fun, had Browns playing been better.
I see it differently in the case of Squier who's playing was good but the sound may not be to everyones taste.
 
#259
cnltb said:
I just listened to the James brown album track and still find the bass playing off. But Yes, it doesn't stand out at all, which helps. And yes, it's a fun track over all.
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What is off about it? The fact that he's not playing a static bassline?

There was a time when this type of bass playing was new. It was adventurous. Electric boogaloo. Groovy. Early funk.

It's a fun track in spite of the bass... or because of it?
;)
 
#260
Brad Johnson said:
What is off about it? The fact that he's not playing a static bassline?

There was a time when this type of bass playing was new. It was adventurous. Electric boogaloo. Groovy. Early funk.

It's a fun track in spite of the bass... or because of it?
;)
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No; The fact that his non static bassline is not played well.
I have no issue with non static lines whatsoever and tend towards non static myself.
I think the track is fun, but would be more fun had the bas been played more competently, (maybe by someone more competent on the instrument ?). I seem to remember there being track on the album where he plays upright and sounds fantastic. No?
 

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