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Some Shade from Ron Carter

#261
cnltb said:
I completely get your point. That doesn't excuse bad playing.
Track would have been even more fun, had Browns playing been better.
I see it differently in the case of Squier who's playing was good but the sound may not be to everyones taste.
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Again, I disagree. I think it would likely have been stiff with "better" playing. That's what others were doing at the time. Brown (both of them) went for a feel vs. textbook perfection.

Again, Squire's sound wasn't meant to be heard in isolation. I think his playing was great and groundbreaking. It made Roundabout.
 
#262
cnltb said:
No; The fact that his non static bassline is not played well.
I have no issue with non static lines whatsoever and tend towards non static myself.
I think the track is fun, but would be more fun had someone more competent on this particular instrument played it more competently, leaving Brown to play those track requiring upright, which he sounds brilliant on, I think.
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I hear Rocco Prestia has bad technique.
:D

What effect does Brown's poor playing have on the track? It's a fun track despite him? Are you hyper focused on the track or listening to the music?
 
#264
Brad Johnson said:
Again, I disagree. I think it would likely have been stiff with "better" playing. That's what others were doing at the time. Brown (both of them) went for a feel vs. textbook perfection.

Again, Squire's sound wasn't meant to be heard in isolation. I think his playing was great and groundbreaking. It made Roundabout.
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I agree on Scuire! but am doubtful as to the Brown/Brown argumet as I (personally, obviously) don't get 'feel' from the bass. I just get 'guy struggling with an instrument not similar enough to his own, trying to keep his head over water in view of what others sound like on this instrument at that time.
But That's cool. Always agreeing on things is for lazy people. :)
 
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#265
As to Ron Carter's statement.
He may be genuine...one never knows.
He has been known to have opinions, but all I read was him also making good arguments for his opinions when asked to do so.
 
#266
cnltb said:
I completely get your point. That doesn't excuse bad playing.
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Agree. Which is why clank and rattle are not "added texture" in my world. They're avoidable gaffes that a more precise playing technique and a proper setup can help you avoid. ;)

I was never into indulging in the old excuse that says: "It's not a fault! It's a feature."
 
#267
cnltb said:
As to Ron Carter's statement.
He may be genuine...one never knows.
He has been known to have opinions, but all I read was him also making good arguments for his opinions when asked to do so.
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I have no problem with opinions based on something. I don't have any opinions not based on something. Not saying I'll always be right, just that there are reasons behind my thinking... and articulating them is easy.

Some didn't like Carter's opinion. There was obviously more than one way to take it or we'd all be offended.
:D
 
#268
40Hz said:
Agree. Which is why clank and rattle are not "added texture" in my world. They're avoidable gaffes that a more precise playing technique and a proper setup can help you avoid. ;)

I was never into indulging in the old excuse that says: "It's not a fault! It's a feature."
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Have you heard "Roundabout"? Pretty sure his playing was intentional. And it was a sound others sought after him.

I think that it would be a hoot to hear Yes without his edge.
 
#269
cnltb said:
I agree on Scuire! but am doubtful as to the Brown/Brown argumet as I (personally, obviously) don't get 'feel' from the bass. I just get 'guy struggling with an instrument not similar enough to his own, trying to keep his head over water in view of what others sound like on this instrument at that time.
But That's cool. Always agreeing on things is for lazy people. :)
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Ray Brown struggling is an interesting concept.
:D
 
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#271
I play both rock and jazz, although I haven't played upright since college (about 30 years ago). Mr. Carter is right on. Some rock players do embellish on the basic line, but in general, the form for most rock songs is three verses, a chorus, and a bridge, and a solo for one instrument. Other than lyrics, verses are virtually identical, as are most choruses. Even more adventurous bands, like Yes and Rush, tend to hold to this form. In jazz, it's once through the melody, then off into the void. It's more the music than the instrument.

As others have said, Jameson is probably the closest, but only on a few tunes.

I am not saying either is better. I prefer playing rock and blues. But it's two different animals.
 
#272
40Hz said:
Agree. Which is why clank and rattle are not "added texture" in my world. They're avoidable gaffes that a more precise playing technique and a proper setup can help you avoid. ;)

I was never into indulging in the old excuse that says: "It's not a fault! It's a feature."
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Fair enough.
Let me rephrase; In the case of Squire I think, whilst his setup may have been sloppy, causing rattle,I don't think his phrasing was off, or his note choices.Given that Squire often sounded like that gives me the impression that it may well have been intentional.I also don't think that it gets in a way of the music but has become one of the features of the yes sound. Initially intended or not. I don't mind it, just like I don't mind certain players use of certain effects.
 
#273
cnltb said:
(Which quote at 2:45?...I may have missed something.)
To be fair...McB talks about Brown being in the pocket on the Album. Maybe he was on some other tunes?
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There's some scrolling text in the video that says "Consider this recent quote from bassist Christian McBride recalling Ray's playing on this James Brown album". The quote itself then shows up at around the 2:45 mark. Yup, you're right, McBride is talking about Ray's playing on the album and not that particular track. Also, I can't seem to find the actual quote anywhere else on the internet...
 
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#275
cnltb said:
Fair enough.
Let me rephrase; In the case of Squire I think, whilst his setup may have been sloppy, causing rattle,I don't think his phrasing was off, or his note choices.Given that Squire often sounded like that gives me the impression that it may well have been intentional.I also don't think that it gets in a way of the music but has become one of the features of the yes sound. Initially intended or not. I don't mind it, just like I don't mind certain players use of certain effects.
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I won't argue You make good points. My point in my earlier post was that a lot of what's considered "right" vs "wrong" in music comes down to differences in personal style and individual taste rather than actual substance. Which is why I included the disclaimer "in my world."

For the record, I like Chris Squire just fine even if I still preferred Greg Lake when it comes to prog. But that's me. :)
 
#276
40Hz said:
I won't argue You make good points. My point in my earlier post was that a lot of what's considered "right" vs "wrong" in music comes down to differences in personal style and individual taste rather than actual substance. Which is why I included the disclaimer "in my world."

For the record, I like Chris Squire just fine even if I still preferred Greg Lake when it comes to prog. But that's me. :)
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My question is; Was the bass part intended to be played it was?...;)
 

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