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sound guy ignoring direct out on amp

#322
You are correct sir.

The prevailing ability of small minority here to impede the rest of the group having a polite discussion is indeed problematic, and something we're working on.


{quote a break from Talk Bass for awhile. This isn't as cool a place as it used to be.[/QUOTE]
 
#323
I'm a Bassist/soundman. I will and do sacrifice my personal up close sound to match the room. Why, cause I'm being paid and the people out front are the ones paying. I have no trouble with every note being heard and certainly do not need the baked in perception of someone else adding "clank". Perhaps I take a different track on this than some, try what I offer before you adjust to what you think all bass should "sound" like? Simple respect goes both ways. :)

I mixed stage monitor first of course then graduated to FOH for 15 years. I mix the absolute most demanding "on the fly" for most all bands I have been in. I rarely have the luxury of a provided engineer or someone elses house system in the last 12 years of playing. Hope to meet you sometime.
 
#325
MonkeyBass said:
See, I'm doing it wrong.

Gee all those years of experience, training, study, refining my technique... boy, I'm sure glad you're here to tell me I'm wrong! Phew!! Thanks man. I'm sure your tone is perfect for every room, in every situation that you won't allow the sound guy to do his job which is TO MAKE YOU SOUND BETTER!!

Do you seriously think I'd crank the highs so much that I'd give you a punk/pick tone on your P-Bass with flats in a funk band?

The point is, not every sound guy is that dumb. Let us do our job.

Are there bad sound guys? Yeah. Are there stupid bass players that make sound guys pissed off? Yeah. Can we find a nice middle ground of mutual understanding? Apparently not.

I think I need a break from Talk Bass for awhile. This isn't as cool a place as it used to be.
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It all good. It's not personal and I have had a lot of experience my self.
I never said I won't allow the sound guy to do his job.
I agree there must be a middle ground. But if a sound guy is just going to take a signal from the bass and not allow the bass player to try his amps DI the the sound guy is not up to the task imho
I give the sound guys a good signal that is not heavily EQ'd and they are always happy. I do minor tweeks of the eq to suit song but I never touch the low end and it's always fine.
 
#326
B-string said:
I'm a Bassist/soundman. I will and do sacrifice my personal up close sound to match the room. Why, cause I'm being paid and the people out front are the ones paying. I have no trouble with every note being heard and certainly do not need the baked in perception of someone else adding "clank". Perhaps I take a different track on this than some, try what I offer before you adjust to what you think all bass should "sound" like? Simple respect goes both ways. :)
Click to expand...

Totally!!! Yes!!! But if you need the clarity it's there!! You see what I mean? I can only go so far with blending you and mixing the band with the tone from the amp.

Guys... studios use DI's and amp sounds blended together all the time. That's what I'm going for when I'm mixing a band. Your acoustic sound of the amp and some clarity from the DI. That's all.

I'd be a piss poor sound guy if I tried to murder your tone.
 
#327
arai said:
Calm down, it all good. It's not personal and I have had a lot of experience my self.
I never said I won't allow the sound guy to do his job.
I agree there must be a middle ground. But if a sound guy is just going to take a signal from the bass and not allow the bass player to try his amps DI the the sound guy is not up to the task imho
I give the sound guys a good signal that is not heavily EQ'd and they are always happy. I do minor tweeks of the eq to suit song but I never touch the low end and it's always fine.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry man. It's just that sound guys get such a bad rap on this forum. So many ignorant and just plain wrong statements are made about how to run sound. I just get defensive.

Listen, it's about achieving a balance. Bass is tricky. It may sound great right in front of it and then turn into a muddy mess 10 feet away. Y'all just have to trust the sound guy when he wants a DI feed that he's not there to sabotage you.
 
#328
MonkeyBass said:
Totally!!! Yes!!! But if you need the clarity it's there!! You see what I mean? I can only go so far with blending you and mixing the band with the tone from the amp.

Guys... studios use DI's and amp sounds blended together all the time. That's what I'm going for when I'm mixing a band. Your acoustic sound of the amp and some clarity from the DI. That's all.

I'd be a piss poor sound guy if I tried to murder your tone.
Click to expand...
Have you tried boosting 8k on a bass with flat wounds?
 
#329
MonkeyBass said:
I'm sorry man. It's just that sound guys get such a bad rap on this forum. So many ignorant and just plain wrong statements are made about how to run sound. I just get defensive.

Listen, it's about achieving a balance. Bass is tricky. It may sound great right in front of it and then turn into a muddy mess 10 feet away. Y'all just have to trust the sound guy when he wants a DI fee that he's not there to sabotage you.
Click to expand...
Oh I guess we are taking it from a different angle. I am still on the theme of th opening post where the sound guy doesn't want to hear about anything buy the bass through his DI first in the chain.

And yeah I agree it's a common goal in the end. The sound guy is part of the band for the night and should be treated as such
 
#331
arai said:
Oh I guess we are taking it from a different angle. I am still on the theme of th opening post where the sound guy doesn't want to hear about anything buy the bass through his DI first in the chain.
Click to expand...

Yeah I realized that after I read it. I usually take the post EQ DI off an amp unless it gets really buzzy. Honestly, a lot of those built in DI's are very poor quality. But I always try to get the one on the head first.

But... if your bass is pure mud I'll take a signal directly from the bass.
 
#332
MonkeyBass said:
Yeah I realized that after I read it. I usually take the post EQ DI off an amp unless it gets really buzzy. Honestly, a lot of those built in DI's are very poor quality. But I always try to get the one on the head first.

But... if your bass is pure mud I'll take a signal directly from the bass.
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Fair call. And I hear you on mud, there are a lot of bassists that don't have a clue how to eq a bass to fit in with a band or room.
 
#333
The thing people have to realize too is that when you're one of 4 bands playing that night in one of those cattle call situations, I'm gonna give you a DI on your bass because I straight up don't have time to tweak a micked amp sound in the 15 minutes between bands. If I take too long, people get pissed. The crowd gets pissed, the bar tender gets pissed, the other bands get pissed, the club owner gets pissed...

As the sound guy I have to manage the schedule, which includes tracking your guitar player down when he's out in his car smoking a bowl, getting your lead singer to quit making out with his girlfriend, getting your drummer to hurry up and get his crap on stage, mic it all up, do a line check and get a sound dialed in after a song or two while your girlfriend offers me her expert mixing advise after the first 20 seconds. All while adjusting monitors, EQ's, balance, and running the lights.

So if a DI on your bass makes my life that much easier... guess what, you're getting a DI.
 
#334
MonkeyBass said:
Yeah I realized that after I read it. I usually take the post EQ DI off an amp unless it gets really buzzy. Honestly, a lot of those built in DI's are very poor quality. But I always try to get the one on the head first.

But... if your bass is pure mud I'll take a signal directly from the bass.
Click to expand...

That makes me think that you would be a welcome relief to come across (like agedhorse doing the mix). We did an outside 4th of July gig when it was 122 in the shade, I was supplying the sound folks with cold water and cool wet towels while they set us up. They were not the greatest but our mix wound up being so. The lead guitarists Marshall failed on stage and was being fed post from the head (no live mike on cab). The guys appeared flustered so I grabbed the line from the amp and a spare DI and ran from the guitarists pedal board.
Poor company had 3 out of 5 powered Mackie monitors smoke on stage that afternoon. The band plays on.

Until I read you would give me a DI no matter what I requested that is ;)
 
#335
MonkeyBass said:
As the sound guy I have to manage the schedule, which includes tracking your guitar player down when he's out in his car smoking a bowl, getting your lead singer to quit making out with his girlfriend, getting your drummer to hurry up and get his crap on stage, mic it all up, do a line check and get a sound dialed in after a song or two while your girlfriend offers me her expert mixing advise after the first 20 seconds.
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[ : Applause : ]
 
#337
B-string said:
That makes me think that you would be a welcome relief to come across (like agedhorse doing the mix). We did an outside 4th of July gig when it was 122 in the shade, I was supplying the sound folks with cold water and cool wet towels while they set us up. They were not the greatest but our mix wound up being so. The lead guitarists Marshall failed on stage and was being fed post from the head (no live mike on cab). The guys appeared flustered so I grabbed the line from the amp and a spare DI and ran from the guitarists pedal board.
Poor company had 3 out of 5 powered Mackie monitors smoke on stage that afternoon. The band plays on.
Click to expand...

Oh man I've been there. Had my power amps pop fuses in the middle of a show because of the heat. Only thing you can do is reset them and keep trying.

Sounds like you saved those guys some trouble and you were really nice to give them water and towels. If every band were that nice and understanding you'd see a lot less grouchy sound guys.
 
#338
HolmeBass said:
You are not an idiot OP, just the victim of worthless and stupid discrimination. See "guitar players always get mic'ed" for the proof.
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Part of the reason why guitar amps get mic'ed while bass usually doesn't is that guitarist want a speaker to "break up" a certain way, as part of their tone. This is not typically how bass players approach getting their sound, aiming more for clarity and definition. This goes a ways to explain why in recording situations the bass is often run direct to the console, while the guitar rarely does.

Much can be said about trying to educate someone about using a different approach. It takes skill to convey that message without coming off as offensive, bossy, etc. Sometimes there simply isn't time for this, and you just roll with the situation. Maybe leave the education until after the show. I think if you can explain yourself to the sound man using the reasoning you spelled out here, people will listen and consider.
 
#339
abarson said:
Part of the reason why guitar amps get mic'ed while bass usually doesn't is that guitarist want a speaker to "break up" a certain way, as part of their tone. This is not typically how bass players approach getting their sound, aiming more for clarity and definition. This goes a ways to explain why in recording situations the bass is often run direct to the console, while the guitar rarely does.

Much can be said about trying to educate someone about using a different approach. It takes skill to convey that message without coming off as offensive, bossy, etc. Sometimes there simply isn't time for this, and you just roll with the situation. Maybe leave the education until after the show. I think if you can explain yourself to the sound man using the reasoning you spelled out here, people will listen and consider.
Click to expand...

Exactly
 
#340
MonkeyBass said:
Oh man I've been there. Had my power amps pop fuses in the middle of a show because of the heat. Only thing you can do is reset them and keep trying.

Sounds like you saved those guys some trouble and you were really nice to give them water and towels. If every band were that nice and understanding you'd see a lot less grouchy sound guys.
Click to expand...

I have been there so I know how frustrating it can be trying to patch in 48 or more sends and 8 (or more) returns with hell breathing at your neck. :)
 

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