It's so nice to have some people sticking up for the sound guy on TB for once! What a nice change!! Thanks guys that's awesome.
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sound guy ignoring direct out on amp
- Thread starter remainthesame
- Start date
I don't think anyone here has disrespect for good sound engineers? The guy that was DJ'ing last night and thinks he knows everything about live sound because he can mix CDs is a different story. 
I don't think anyone here has disrespect for good sound engineers? The guy that was DJ'ing last night and thinks he knows everything about live sound because he can mix CDs is a different story.
This is true and I've certainly encountered many of those guys when I'm playing bass.
But, there seems to me (and maybe I'm just over sensitive here) that any time a sound guy asks some inexperience player on TB to do something he doesn't understand, he'll get on here and post about it and the next thing you know it's an all-sound-guys-suck ignorance fest.
Inexperienced players should listen much more and talk much less. But they shouldn't be treated like morons just because they don't have a lot of experience and are doing things that you don't dig. Again, I'll use the Entwistle example...were all the sound people and engineers right to screw with the sound he wanted to get just because he was a kid starting out at one point? No they weren't. Turned out the sound Entwistle liked was awesome, and any tracks recorded his way sound way better than when he was vetoed by a producer.
Was he? Should he be touching Chuck Berry's amp without asking him? I get enraged if anyone touches my amp without permission, too.
I thought it was the engineer that touched his amp. Maybe I'm wrong.
If you go into the studio you're paying the engineer to give you the best sound possible. That's what you're paying him your hard earned money for. And, yeah, if the engineer touched Chuck Berry's amp without asking that may have been a bit disrespectful. I'd use more tact then that. But, ultimately, the engineer is right. And if you're at the level where you're recording Chuck Berry and Keith Richards chances are good that you know if the amp sounds like crap.
If you go into the studio you're paying the engineer to give you the best sound possible. That's what you're paying him your hard earned money for. And, yeah, if the engineer touched Chuck Berry's amp without asking that may have been a bit disrespectful. I'd use more tact then that. But, ultimately, the engineer is right. And if you're at the level where you're recording Chuck Berry and Keith Richards chances are good that you know if the amp sounds like crap.
Had the same experience with a 1001rb Hartke 4x10. I suppose it has to do with the soundguys experience with the setup too though.
:lol: I love that!
I have a bit of a problem with this statement, but it all comes down to situation and the player
Yeah the GK DI's are pretty good. I own that bass head myself and it's a great DI. And the OP's point is valid that the sound guy probably should have tried the DI in his 1001RB.
I realized I got so caught up in the tangents of this post that I didn't reply to the OP. Yeah... the sound guy should probably have use the DI on your head. On the other hand, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he may have had a good reason not to. I hope I've explained myself as to why I may think that.
I realized I got so caught up in the tangents of this post that I didn't reply to the OP. Yeah... the sound guy should probably have use the DI on your head. On the other hand, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he may have had a good reason not to. I hope I've explained myself as to why I may think that.
I'm not hearing much mutual understanding out of soundmen in this thread, bro. I'm hearing a lot of "I have determined that this is the best way, so if you're not directly paying me you can eat it if you disagree." Not everyone, but enough to make it the prevailing sentiment. And that's why I'm going to bolt this thread. Won't do any good anyway.
As a bass player I do too.
But, man, you gotta put yourself in the shoes of a sound guy sometime. If you walk in with a P-Bass and a basic amp with no pedals I know I can dial your sound in in about 2 seconds.
If you walk in with a full effects board then I'll certainly be asking you questions about what we need to do.
But... if your drummer is late, and your singer is being a diva, and that clock is ticking and we're running late... I hate to say it because I'm a bass player too... but out comes the DI.
Huh? How?
To be honest I'm sorta getting the same vibe from you Jimmy. With all due respect.
I'm hearing "my bass tone is my tone and the sound guy/engineer is wrong".
I used to be one of those sound guys.
Reason why I would almost always refuse the DI out on the bass amps was simply because most of the time they are too high level to bring into the mixing board without a pad.
I do not know who designs those heads, but most every mixer used for live sound has tons of XLR mic inputs and not as many XLR line inputs.
Then of course there is that most sound guys anticipate putting in much more time getting the drums and vocals to sound right, the guitar bass and keys are just speedbumps on the way to those tasks.
Reason why I would almost always refuse the DI out on the bass amps was simply because most of the time they are too high level to bring into the mixing board without a pad.
I do not know who designs those heads, but most every mixer used for live sound has tons of XLR mic inputs and not as many XLR line inputs.
Then of course there is that most sound guys anticipate putting in much more time getting the drums and vocals to sound right, the guitar bass and keys are just speedbumps on the way to those tasks.
Jimmy, I think you are fighting from a reasonable position. Such things will not be tolerated here. Unless you can take on an extreme position, I'm going to have to ask you to leave.
Seriously though, I think a lot of the discussion here is based on what ifs. But I think the biggest part of the problem is that many line outs on amps in the 80s sucked. And many sound guys have their heads stuck up their...... I mean...... in the 80s. (And, again, I'm a sound guy too.) Back then, DI was God. Which is really strange because most of the (consumer to semi-pro level) DIs on the market back then were awful as well.
These days, however, with complex signal chains and effects and whatnot, I think it's high time that sound guys and musicians started (call me crazy) TALKING to each other. The problem THERE is that many on both sides of the conversation GO IN LOOKING for a fight. Necks are swelling before the conversation even starts. If you were lizards, those little red bubbles in your neck would look like tomatoes before the first words were spoken.
Another problem is all these ridiculous 5 or 6 band shows. Oy. It's a trainwreck more often than not. Nobody gets to talk about anything when you have 2.3 seconds to set up an entire backline. Each band gets a half *$$ mix for the first 3 or their 5 or 6 songs because there's only a level check. So, a bass player spends several years figuring out what kind of sound he is going for, only to have a few seconds at most to talk to the sound guy about it (who has neither the time nor experience in most cases to give a crap). It's a mess. I hate those shows.
Anyway, none of it is going to be resolved here. Both sides are too emotional about it. And none of us are working with each other on a stage any time soon, so we're pissing up a rope pretty much.
Seriously though, I think a lot of the discussion here is based on what ifs. But I think the biggest part of the problem is that many line outs on amps in the 80s sucked. And many sound guys have their heads stuck up their...... I mean...... in the 80s. (And, again, I'm a sound guy too.) Back then, DI was God. Which is really strange because most of the (consumer to semi-pro level) DIs on the market back then were awful as well.
These days, however, with complex signal chains and effects and whatnot, I think it's high time that sound guys and musicians started (call me crazy) TALKING to each other. The problem THERE is that many on both sides of the conversation GO IN LOOKING for a fight. Necks are swelling before the conversation even starts. If you were lizards, those little red bubbles in your neck would look like tomatoes before the first words were spoken.
Another problem is all these ridiculous 5 or 6 band shows. Oy. It's a trainwreck more often than not. Nobody gets to talk about anything when you have 2.3 seconds to set up an entire backline. Each band gets a half *$$ mix for the first 3 or their 5 or 6 songs because there's only a level check. So, a bass player spends several years figuring out what kind of sound he is going for, only to have a few seconds at most to talk to the sound guy about it (who has neither the time nor experience in most cases to give a crap). It's a mess. I hate those shows.
Anyway, none of it is going to be resolved here. Both sides are too emotional about it. And none of us are working with each other on a stage any time soon, so we're pissing up a rope pretty much.
