• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

sound guy ignoring direct out on amp

#21
If the sound guy or company is decent they will have a decent DI option for you like a Radial or Countryman DI. A lot of sound guys don't like using the amps DI for many reasons such as noise, it's running post EQ or because the output is effected by the master volume control and your stage volume will effect the mix.

Keep in mind that just because they are taking the DI out of your amp doesn't mean that the bass tone coming out of the front of house speakers will sound anything like what you hear through your amp on stage. That signal is being routed through a board with a different preamp and gain structure as well as a completely different EQ then your head. It's then fed to PA speakers that are not tuned anything like your cabinet. So you are usually beating your head against the wall for nothing to get "your tone".

The best argument you have is making sure that the sound guy isn't giving you some piece of crap DI that is not equipped with a transformer. The transformer will protect your gear from any voltage that may came back to your gear and damage it. It's rare these days but you never know when a club or church has had some shoddy electrical work done a volunteer or a drunk brother in law who meant well in an effort to save money.

When I was in your situation I would offer my Sansamp BDDI to the sound guy as an option to a crappy DI box. I always carried a (still have them) a Radial J48 active DI box and a Radial JDI passive DI just in case they were adamant about me going through a DI.
 
#22
remainthesame said:
A few of the sound guys in my area seem to either ignore it or hate it or something. They always unplug me from my amp (the input is right next to the direct out, you cant miss it) and they hook me up to their di box.
Click to expand...

This is totally normal standard operating procedure for bar/club sound engineers when there is limited time for soundcheck, and complaining about it is amateur. When you go out to eat, do you expect the chef to use your own knife that you brought from home? Just play the bass and let the guy do his job with his tools. :)
 
#24
Mushroo said:
This is totally normal standard operating procedure for bar/club sound engineers when there is limited time for soundcheck, and complaining about it is amateur. When you go out to eat, do you expect the chef to use your own knife that you brought from home? Just play the bass and let the guy do his job with his tools. :)
Click to expand...

first off, who the hell are you calling an amateur?
2nd. no i wouldnt expect them to use my knife, but if i brought my own knife and they wouldnt let me use it and then they give me a crappy knife and insist on me using it then yes i would complain.
 
#25
Mushroo said:
This is totally normal standard operating procedure for bar/club sound engineers when there is limited time for soundcheck, and complaining about it is amateur. When you go out to eat, do you expect the chef to use your own knife that you brought from home? Just play the bass and let the guy do his job with his tools. :)
Click to expand...

I disagree, allowing a "soundtech" with unknown abilities to dictate what you will use is amateur as you can be. Of course in 40+ years of gigging I have rarely found one that knew even half of what I know. Your analogy does not apply in the least.
The bassist is the Chef and no Chef would be requested to use the server's knife set.
 
#26
Mushroo said:
This is totally normal standard operating procedure for bar/club sound engineers when there is limited time for soundcheck, and complaining about it is amateur. When you go out to eat, do you expect the chef to use your own knife that you brought from home? Just play the bass and let the guy do his job with his tools. :)
Click to expand...

if you like whatever lame ass sound the sound guy gives you then good for you. i will not stand for it. ive spent too many years and too much money crafting my sound to have it not exist to the audience. the amateur thing to do would be to let the sound guy take your sound straight from the bass and let him make you sound like every other bass player.

yes, you should let the soundguy do his job, but its not his show, its the bands show, and he was hired to get the bands sound to the audience, not the sound he thinks the band should sound like.

if you hire someone to paint your house, do you let him pick the color?
 
#30
My experience on this broken down into 2 parts:
Part A: when a new band is starting out playing low quality gigs with mulitple bands, soundman will plug all the basses straight into the DI box he or she has & act like they don't care - No mic on bass amp, no using DI out on amp with all bands bass sounding fine - sometimes the headline act will get something different.
Part B: After playing several gigs the same band gets better so gets multi-band shows in bigger venues, the sound guy suddenly becomes more open minded; puts a mic the speaker, looks for the DI in the back of the amp & maybe asks questions to make sure you have what you want on stage.
 
#31
But a simple interjection could have solved this. The OP has a tuner plugged into his amp which he wants to use for the show. By disallowing the OP to use his amp D.I the sound guy essentially removed comfortable use of one of the OP's key pieces of gear. I would have simply said to the guy 'hey we need to use the amp DI because I need to use my tuner'.

Around these parts it's commonly expected for the band to pay for the soundguy which provides you with some leverage. This is the exact reason why I hate gigs with provided backline and house paid soundguys. I don't think we've ever played a show and sounded good under those conditions. You're essentially going to sound exactly how the guy is used to presetting the board.
 
#33
Whatever. I've learned through the years it's impossible to mix front-of-house sound from the stage. Sooner or later, if you play enough gigs/sessions, somebody will inevitably suggest you use a DI. They are not doing it to piss you off; they are doing it for the same reason a carpenter uses a hammer: it is the most commonly accepted tool for the job. You can throw a hissy fit or you can roll with it. I just relax, play my ass off, and trust that the guy knows his stuff. "My sound" is in my hands and the details of my performance. Nobody can take that away from me. :)

And yes, I do think it is totally amateur when bands blame the soundguy for their own sucky performance. If the quality of your act is contingent on having a certain EQ setting or whatever, that's a sad reflection on your musicianship and ability as an entertainer. Not accusing anyone here on these forums of course, thinking more about some prima donnas I've shared the stage with through the years. Conversely I've seen top pros deal with broken strings, split drum heads, faulty mics, dead battery, bad monitor mix, power outages, crappy weather, incompetent sound guy, and many other technical difficulties with dignity and professionalism, and every single fan left the venue entertained, raving what a great show it was. ;)
 
#34
Mushroo said:
This is totally normal standard operating procedure for bar/club sound engineers when there is limited time for soundcheck, and complaining about it is amateur. When you go out to eat, do you expect the chef to use your own knife that you brought from home? Just play the bass and let the guy do his job with his tools. :)
Click to expand...


I've been all around the world courtesy of my bass playing, and I'll tell you what: it's a very far thing from amateur concerning yourself with what your audience hears. In fact, I would say your attitude is about the most amateur one in this conversation.
 
#35
Well, I *am* an amateur, no argument. :)

ps In response to the painter analogy, the notes I play = the color of the paint. The brand of the DI is more analagous to the paintbrush, and yes, I would let the painter use his own brushes, ladder, dropcloth, etc. to spread the color I chose over the walls according to his own experience.

Everything I've said assumes a bar/club/festival gig where the sound guy is provided. If you are running your own PA and hiring your own soundguy, then of course you get to boss him around and tell him exactly how to mix you. :)
 
#36
srxplayer said:
Because very few guitar amps are equipped with a D.I. The typical SM 57 (insert whatever mic here) on the cab is usually the only option for a guitar amp.
Click to expand...
:eyebrow:

There was a time you never saw a DI on a bass amp either, and bass players were given outboard DI's. Nothing stopping guitars from being forcibly DI'd.
 
#37
Mushroo said:
Whatever. I've learned through the years it's impossible to mix front-of-house sound from the stage. Sooner or later, if you play enough gigs/sessions, somebody will inevitably suggest you use a DI. They are not doing it to piss you off; they are doing it for the same reason a carpenter uses a hammer: it is the most commonly accepted tool for the job. You can throw a hissy fit or you can roll with it. I just relax, play my ass off, and trust that the guy knows his stuff. "My sound" is in my hands and the details of my performance. Nobody can take that away from me. :)
Click to expand...

not one person here has said to try to mix from the stage, or to not use a DI. the main point has been to use the DI from the amp, not a DI between the bass and amp.

Mushroo said:
And yes, I do think it is totally amateur when bands blame the soundguy for their own sucky performance. If the quality of your act is contingent on having a certain EQ setting or whatever, that's a sad reflection on your musicianship and ability as an entertainer. Not accusing anyone here on these forums of course, thinking more about some prima donnas I've shared the stage with through the years. Conversely I've seen top pros deal with broken strings, split drum heads, faulty mics, dead battery, bad monitor mix, power outages, crappy weather, incompetent sound guy, and many other technical difficulties with dignity and professionalism, and every single fan left the venue entertained, raving what a great show it was. ;)
Click to expand...

its a sad reflection on the state of music when people dont have their own tonal identity with their instrument. i could play through any decent gear and have a good tone, but i want MY tone. would a sound guy tell geddy, "sorry bud, you get this DI and not the tone you want"? would that get said to Billy Sheehan? Marcus Miller? you can insert an endless list of musicians that play with a unique tone into that question. call me a prima donna if you want, but ive crafted a tone thats worth being heard. if a person doesnt feel that way they shouldnt be on stage. or they should just stick to open mic jam nights.
 
#38
Biggest reasons I insist on using my amp DI (or SansAmp in "ampless" scenarios) vs garden variety DI are to get the sonic benefits of a tube preamp/emulation, and compression.

Both my amp DI and SansAmp have ground lifts and in the case of my amp, a pre/post EQ option which I always set to pre. So once I inform the soundman of all that, he realizes he doesnt have a leg to stand on and I don't get any flak.
 
#39
Mushroo said:
Whatever. I've learned through the years it's impossible to mix front-of-house sound from the stage. Sooner or later, if you play enough gigs/sessions, somebody will inevitably suggest you use a DI. They are not doing it to piss you off; they are doing it for the same reason a carpenter uses a hammer: it is the most commonly accepted tool for the job. You can throw a hissy fit or you can roll with it. I just relax, play my ass off, and trust that the guy knows his stuff. "My sound" is in my hands and the details of my performance. Nobody can take that away from me. :)

And yes, I do think it is totally amateur when bands blame the soundguy for their own sucky performance. If the quality of your act is contingent on having a certain EQ setting or whatever, that's a sad reflection on your musicianship and ability as an entertainer. Not accusing anyone here on these forums of course, thinking more about some prima donnas I've shared the stage with through the years. Conversely I've seen top pros deal with broken strings, split drum heads, faulty mics, dead battery, bad monitor mix, power outages, crappy weather, incompetent sound guy, and many other technical difficulties with dignity and professionalism, and every single fan left the venue entertained, raving what a great show it was. ;)
Click to expand...

people never listen any more man. i never said that he made me play bad. i know you said you werent talking about me but you totally were. quit trolling.
 
#40
Tons of amp manufacturers put in tons of DI's on the amps they make. Some are good, soma are not, and some just downright stink.

I never ask questions when I'm playing a venue that's big enough to not use my own sound guy. The sound guy says "bass plugs in to that DI by the drunk it" and I say "OK".

I just want to put on a good show. I don't want to make anyone work harder than they have too.

*****auto correct posted drunk it instead of drum kit, but I still think it plays!*****
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back