Sound too low in mix, no definition

[Corn Pop]

I am a hired gun playing classic country on a P-bass.
I am playing La Bella Deep Talking FS flats.
My settings are, I turn mids down low, and my tone knob is almost off
Issues:

• I recently received 3 complaints: Steel guitar stated he couldn't hear the changes, that the I and IV sounded the same to him on stage. In another band, the lead guitar said he likes to hear the high on the bass and I have too much bass
• On 2 separate occasions, another bassist sat in and played my bass, and in the crowd I could finally hear my sound, and I hated it. It sounded so muddy and down in the mix.

Questions:

• Settings: I understand how my settings could be causing the problem. I assume the answer is to turn my tone knob up and turn up the middle. I just don't like the sound and feel like it doesn't fit with classic country music. Is this just a settings issue and not a strings issue? If so, suggestions?
• Strings: I've tried a lot of strings, rounds and flats...should I get off the La Bellas? Is turning up tone and mids not going to get me there with a string that sits so slow in the mix? I really like the beautiful full sound of La Bellas...
  

 

[superheavyfunk]

Between the no mids on the amp, no high mid/treble on the tone knob, and the lack of highs from the DTFs, you’ve definitely painted yourself into a flubby, definition-less bass corner.

I can’t think of anything that will help you that doesn’t include changing at least one (or preferably two) of the tonal decisions that you’ve made.

Flat wounds don’t have to lack definition. I use them all the time and I’m well heard by all parties. At the least, either turn up your tone knob or turn up the mids on your amp. No mids = no cutting through anything and no note definition. You’re just a vague bassy sound taking up lots of low end space in the mix.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

What amp and cab are you using? Do you have anything else in the signal path (Compressor? Pedal/Rack EQ? OD?) before it gets to the amp? With few exceptions, the tone stacks on different amps will be...different. We can probably be of more help if we know what you're working with.

"No definition" sounds like not enough mids to me, and the "High Bass" would mean high mids or treble are lacking. I usually think warm, thumpy tone for classic country bass (trying to emulate an upright bass on the electric), so I think your tonal goals may be along those lines too. You've got the right bass and strings, have you tried any other amps rehearsal that fared better with the bandmates?

 

[blr2]

Turn your mids up and open the tone control of your bass. Problem solved.

 

[Bullitt5135]

Turn your mids up and open the tone control of your bass. Problem solved.

A little bit of mild overdrive never hurts. Look into something like a Sansamp from Tech21.

Check this out...Ryan has talked about keeping her EQ pretty close to "12-o'clock" in other videos.

 

[Wasnex]

I am a hired gun playing classic country on a P-bass.
I am playing La Bella Deep Talking FS flats.

• On 2 separate occasions, another bassist sat in and played my bass, and in the crowd I could finally hear my sound, and I hated it. It sounded so muddy and down in the mix.

Questions:

• I assume the answer is to turn my tone knob up and turn up the middle. I just don't like the sound and feel like it doesn't fit with classic country music.
  

It's clear you already know the answer. Deal with the emotional dissonance and make the necessary adjustments. The results still won't be perfect, but they will definitely be better.

If adding mids and treble doesn't provide enough of an improvement, then consider different strings.

Something you may not know or understand. The sound of the bass becomes darker and more diffuse as it travels over distance. In order for your amp to deliver the desired tone to the distant audience, the tone needs to start out brighter and more focused near the amp.

In a perfect world your sound will adjusted different for your location and needs on stage versus the audience's location and needs. If your amp is pushing the room, then you have to choose which audience gets the best sound. Since you are a pro and providing a service for pay, I suggest prioritizing the audiences needs with the knowledge that it will take away from you playing experience.

Another part of the problem may be that your artistic vision of how country should sound is not inline with other peoples expectations. If you want to continue working for this group, then consider honoring their artistic vision and trying to give them what they want.

 

[trothwell]

You say you don't like the sound of the mids turned up and of the tone knob up. Are you saying that based on playing by yourself? Are you saying that based on the sound in the room with the band?

I think if you could have another bassist play it that way and let you listen again, that might be helpful in judging wha tit sounds like.

I'm not really sure that Precision basses in general sound super awesome by themselves. They seem to be to really lock in to their superpowers in the mix of a band.

 

[Killing Floor]

The thing about mids vs forums is that mids is how you cut through without simply being too loud and forums are where you go to hear the opposite.

Step 1, dial up the mids. The “smile” EQ is your enemy.
Step 2, live out the rest of your days on earth basking in the comfort of knowing you are the only person at your gig who notices your tone.

EQ for the gig. Next venue may be totally different.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I am a hired gun playing classic country on a P-bass.
I am playing La Bella Deep Talking FS flats.
My settings are, I turn mids down low, and my tone knob is almost off
Issues:

• I recently received 3 complaints: Steel guitar stated he couldn't hear the changes, that the I and IV sounded the same to him on stage. In another band, the lead guitar said he likes to hear the high on the bass and I have too much bass
• On 2 separate occasions, another bassist sat in and played my bass, and in the crowd I could finally hear my sound, and I hated it. It sounded so muddy and down in the mix.

Questions:

• Settings: I understand how my settings could be causing the problem. I assume the answer is to turn my tone knob up and turn up the middle. I just don't like the sound and feel like it doesn't fit with classic country music. Is this just a settings issue and not a strings issue? If so, suggestions?
• Strings: I've tried a lot of strings, rounds and flats...should I get off the La Bellas? Is turning up tone and mids not going to get me there with a string that sits so slow in the mix? I really like the beautiful full sound of La Bellas...

In addition to the above,

- with a normal, passive tone control on a bass, there is a difference between "almost off" and "off": with the knob completely "off" the resonance peak of the pickup is restored, at a lower frequency, whereas the control in most intermediate positions flattens said peak, making the timbre actually *less* defined than with the knob at 0.
In other words, try it at 0 and see if the situation improves.
You may then also consider swapping the capacitor with a lower value (less treble cut) than the usual .047 µF;
again somewhat counterintuitively, even a *higher* value might improve things (if the tone control is kept at 0, which restores the peak, possibly slotting the instrument in a less trod spot of the mix).

- You may not have to turn up mids, or they may only need a gentle boost:
also try *cutting* first (bass, specifically).

 

[Lava]

IMO:
P Bass > Volume knob all the way up > Tone knob at 8 or 9 out of 10.

You currently have no mids action happening. You have tons of low end which is not helping. At that rate your bass tone will never cut through

 

[Silky Johnson]

I am a hired gun playing classic country on a P-bass.
I am playing La Bella Deep Talking FS flats.
My settings are, I turn mids down low, and my tone knob is almost off
Issues:

• I recently received 3 complaints: Steel guitar stated he couldn't hear the changes, that the I and IV sounded the same to him on stage. In another band, the lead guitar said he likes to hear the high on the bass and I have too much bass
• On 2 separate occasions, another bassist sat in and played my bass, and in the crowd I could finally hear my sound, and I hated it. It sounded so muddy and down in the mix.

Questions:

• Settings: I understand how my settings could be causing the problem. I assume the answer is to turn my tone knob up and turn up the middle. I just don't like the sound and feel like it doesn't fit with classic country music. Is this just a settings issue and not a strings issue? If so, suggestions?
• Strings: I've tried a lot of strings, rounds and flats...should I get off the La Bellas? Is turning up tone and mids not going to get me there with a string that sits so slow in the mix? I really like the beautiful full sound of La Bellas...
  

Over time I've found what sounds like too much mids standing in front of your amp is often what you need in the context of a loudish band

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Here it goes,,,
A P bass generally isn't a clean sound. The flats are making it "less clean" Try playing on top of the pickup, add some mids & highs for a little punch. (this should be good for some negative replies!)

 

[rolfplamperton]

Strings are fine. It’s your settings. You know the answer. I gig country all the time with flats on a P bass and get no complaints.

 

[Pilgrim]

IMO:
P Bass > Volume knob all the way up > Tone knob at 8 or 9 out of 10.

You currently have no mids action happening. You have tons of low end which is not helping. At that rate your bass tone will never cut through

That's the explanation. I love dead flats myself, and dislike treble, but you clearly need more mids and a bit more top end in your sound. What you have left yourself with is just "woof, woof woof" under the music.

 

[bearhart74]

classic country with a reggae / dub bass setup....no wonder

 

[MDBass]

I am a hired gun playing classic country on a P-bass.
I am playing La Bella Deep Talking FS flats.
My settings are, I turn mids down low, and my tone knob is almost off
Issues:

• I recently received 3 complaints: Steel guitar stated he couldn't hear the changes, that the I and IV sounded the same to him on stage. In another band, the lead guitar said he likes to hear the high on the bass and I have too much bass
• On 2 separate occasions, another bassist sat in and played my bass, and in the crowd I could finally hear my sound, and I hated it. It sounded so muddy and down in the mix.

Questions:

• Settings: I understand how my settings could be causing the problem. I assume the answer is to turn my tone knob up and turn up the middle. I just don't like the sound and feel like it doesn't fit with classic country music. Is this just a settings issue and not a strings issue? If so, suggestions?
• Strings: I've tried a lot of strings, rounds and flats...should I get off the La Bellas? Is turning up tone and mids not going to get me there with a string that sits so slow in the mix? I really like the beautiful full sound of La Bellas...
  

Yep.

Tone knob almost off AND mids all the way down will sound very muddy with no pitch definition, regardless of what strings you’re using.

If you “like the beautiful full sound of La Bellas”, stop neutering them with such extreme EQ moves.

 

[dkelley]

Turn up the mids and highs and tone control. always, for live. now... if you don't like your tone from your amp which I presume you are using as your monitor, turn it so it isn't facing your ears, or turn off it's tweeter if it has one, or use an external cab that is very mellow sounding. That's all I got. Generally I really want to hear very bright bass on stage and when recording so I can hear my technique to make sure I'm playing perfectly cleanly... and then if it is eqd down to be thick etc afterwards for everybody else to hear, that's great!

 

[Rickplaysbass]

As a bass player you have to realize that your sound on your own and your sound with a band are two totally different things. A super scooped thumpy sound solo will turn into a muddy, undefined blob of a tone with a group.

On a P w/ DTFs I would rock my EQ pretty flat. Maybe a slight bump somewhere between 250hz and 800hz. My tone knob would be set to somewhere between 60-80% depending on the day individual bass. Just down enough to kill any zing that might be left but not enough too make it start getting woofy.

By itself, I would want my bass to almost sound a little honky but beefy for lack of a better way to describe it.

 

[MegaSwing]

Bump the mids into your cab’s sweet spot. Low mids are way more critical to bass tone than your lowest frequencies. Learn to look at the lowest lows as the end of the curve, not the peak of it. Also, don’t roll off the highs on the instrument. The stage is not hospitable to ‘bedroom tone’.

Well, you asked.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Flats have very little high end. And you dime your mids. That leaves you with low end content only, and with no mids or highs it's no surprise that you sound muddy.