source audio c4

[Benko]

I had the C4 for a while but slept on it, if I had time I would plug it and have fun trying out all the community presets. For lack of time, skills...I still favored my dedicated pedal (an octaver, an envelop, one dirt etc..).

My guitarist is down the synth effect path and really wanted to hear the C4 in band practice...oh god it sounded glorious! I was having it side by side with recently released (big name) octaver and envelop and it was such a better fit for our band.

So I'll give it a more serious use, but first : is the DMC micro still the best option for MIDI control?

Sub question : What is new with the DMC.micro "pro"? Is the DMC-3XL Gen3 an option too?

 

[Quatschmacher]

I had the C4 for a while but slept on it, if I had time I would plug it and have fun trying out all the community presets. For lack of time, skills...I still favored my dedicated pedal (an octaver, an envelop, one dirt etc..).

My guitarist is down the synth effect path and really wanted to hear the C4 in band practice...oh god it sounded glorious! I was having it side by side with recently released (big name) octaver and envelop and it was such a better fit for our band.

So I'll give it a more serious use, but first : is the DMC micro still the best option for MIDI control?

Sub question : What is new with the DMC.micro "pro"? Is the DMC-3XL Gen3 an option too?

Depends what you mean by “best”. The DMC micro will connect via usb without further gear. If you want really a plethora of control options the Morningstar stuff is brilliant (but will require the SA Hub or a usb host device).

 

[Benko]

Depends what you mean by “best”. The DMC micro will connect via usb without further gear. If you want really a plethora of control options the Morningstar stuff is brilliant (but will require the SA Hub or a usb host device).

Thanks for the quick feedback, yes I meant the "simple" plug'n'play solution

I got a lot of positive feedback from Morningstar but I think it's another level of involvment with the SA Hub and so on...

 

[sunbeast]

I had the C4 for a while but slept on it, if I had time I would plug it and have fun trying out all the community presets. For lack of time, skills...I still favored my dedicated pedal (an octaver, an envelop, one dirt etc..).

My guitarist is down the synth effect path and really wanted to hear the C4 in band practice...oh god it sounded glorious! I was having it side by side with recently released (big name) octaver and envelop and it was such a better fit for our band.

So I'll give it a more serious use, but first : is the DMC micro still the best option for MIDI control?

Sub question : What is new with the DMC.micro "pro"? Is the DMC-3XL Gen3 an option too?

I wouldn’t say the DMC Micro is the “best” by any means, just popular because it is the cheapest all-in-one solution (no need for a Hub or other USB Host solution). All of the gen3 DMC controllers have the necessary USB MIDI Host function you need. The Morningstar controllers are much more capable/powerful but require a Neuro Hub or USB Host interface (like the DMC Micro.Ghost) to work with the C4.

 

[GMC]

So I'll give it a more serious use, but first : is the DMC micro still the best option for MIDI control?

Sub question : What is new with the DMC.micro "pro"? Is the DMC-3XL Gen3 an option too?

It's a very very capable synth, one of the best available. It's also one of the best analogue sounding octavers available and one of the best filters available. It has a very limited pedal control. 4 knobs...which belies how deep this pedal is. I use a Spectrum purely for filters and octaves, giving my C4 a bit more space to do the synth stuff more. However, some of my octave sounds (like my funkulator patch) can't be put on a Spectrum.

You can expand the C4's live use massively with a FaderFox product, although integrating them into pedal board can be a bit of a headache. USB 5v power and 3.5mm midi jacks don't help. Plus it also doesn't like powered Midi 5 pin ports.

Control wise, you have a lot of options and there is no clear winner...just different options / choices / features / price point. The DMC range are well regarded and great if board space is at a premium, ie you don't need a bigger controller and a Neuro hub. Morning Star make a great range of Midi switchers and controllers. The Source Audio Soleman is also excellent, especially if you want to add a further layer of SA Scenes.
Personally I use a Boss ES-5, it's a great looper / switcher that can swap the order of the loops. It's a fantastic Midi controller too. It's 5 loops are only mono. So all of the pedals that I need to switch pedal order and activate in loops are under the ES-5's loops. Everything after the ES-5 loops have a static order (modulation, EQ, Delay and verbs) and are run stereo. I also have a FaderFox PC4 on my board that controls 5 knobs on my Spectrum, Lunar and C4. 2 knobs on both of my Eventide H9's, 1 knob on my EQ2, 2 knobs on my SA Nemesis and 2 knobs on my Aftershock.
With SA gear, you don't HAVE to go down the midi route, but if you do...the sky is the limit in terms of control and switching.

 

[Hummergeist]

I'm using a Kenton MIDI USB Host to get MIDI into the C4, but I'm probably going to change for for the DMC, mainly because of size and the 9v power supply, it'll go easier on my board (the Kenton is slightly larger and strictly requires 5v power).

 

[Benko]

Thank you all for the great feedback. Yep the goal would be to keep it very simple, I set up 6-7 patchs and I run with them without fiddling with the controls. The epiphany was how good of an octavers and/or filter it was.

Ok will get a DMC Micro and start the journey from there

 

[Gibs210]

Some news for you all, if you don’t want to use Usb midi with the micro/3xl/4. Disaster area came out with new firmware that allows the DMCs to communicate via multi jack using the neuro cable of all things. (This was a big surprise for both us and disaster area that this works). Spectrum, C4, Ultrawave are fully supported, it’s gets a little less useful for older pedals (due lack of midi access to presets) midi channel 1 works best with all devices, but the C4 will work with 2,3, and 4. I believe Matt says the ultrawave is a bit finicky yet on this. Not sure about spectrum. Old one series will only work on channel 1. So you could use multiple pedals via multi jacks (I believe the DA din to trs midi box is an option here, though overall, the hub is probably the easier solution when getting into using with more than 1 one series that prefers midi channel 1 over trs).

 

[Oddmetersam]

I, too, wanted the simplest option to control my C4. I wound up with the DMC Micro Pro and it works like a charm. Only downside is that naming presets on it via usb interface with a computer isn't possible on my MacBook Air without downloading Chrome because the DMC doesn't work with Safari. Otherwise it's great and hardly takes up any space.

 

[sunbeast]

Some news for you all, if you don’t want to use Usb midi with the micro/3xl/4. Disaster area came out with new firmware that allows the DMCs to communicate via multi jack using the neuro cable of all things. (This was a big surprise for both us and disaster area that this works). Spectrum, C4, Ultrawave are fully supported, it’s gets a little less useful for older pedals (due lack of midi access to presets) midi channel 1 works best with all devices, but the C4 will work with 2,3, and 4. I believe Matt says the ultrawave is a bit finicky yet on this. Not sure about spectrum. Old one series will only work on channel 1. So you could use multiple pedals via multi jacks (I believe the DA din to trs midi box is an option here, though overall, the hub is probably the easier solution when getting into using with more than 1 one series that prefers midi channel 1 over trs).

I hope Morningstar catches on and figures out how to implement this as well!

 

[Quatschmacher]

I hope Morningstar catches on and figures out how to implement this as well!

If you want that to happen, I suggest emailing them - they are very responsive to customer feedback.

 

[moon-bass]

I just ordered the DMC Micro pro for my C4, and it does not come with the gHost adapter. I couldn't find a definitive answer on this - does the gen 3 Micro Pro need the gHost adapter, or can I use a standard USB b to USB b cable (I have many). Thanks!

 

[sunbeast]

I just ordered the DMC Micro pro for my C4, and it does not come with the gHost adapter. I couldn't find a difinitice answer on this - does the gen 3 Micro Pro need the gHost adapter, or can I use a standard USB b to USB b cable (I have many). Thanks!

You don't specifically need the DMC Ghost cable, but there are definitely some cable combinations that don't work in my experience. I don't understand the "Host" standard, but apparently not every B cable can support it. Its worth a try with the cables you have- try both orientations if one doesn't work.

I really disliked the amount of space the straight USB cables took up on my board and they were also pretty fragile as a result (I actually broke my DMC Ghost cable because of extra tension on one of the cable ends on my board), so I did some experimenting with cheap right-angle and then up/down-angle USB cables for my C4 + DMC combo that allowed me to save a ton of space on the pedalboard and route the cables in between the bars and underneath my Pedaltrain board. I ended up using three cables together for mine, but I don't doubt there is a single cable option somewhere that works. At least using a dual-cable like the Ghost adapter works great so you can just split the junction to plug the C4 into your computer without plugging/unplugging directly from the pedals every time which risks damaging those sensitive connectors (did I mention how I hate USB connectors?!!).

Here are the cables I ended up using. These two:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015PRGS08/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Mated with this one in between:
1ft CablesOnline USB 2.0 Mini-B 5-Pin to Mini-B 5-Pin Male/Male Cable, USB2-5501 30955275475 | eBay

 

[moon-bass]

You don't specifically need the DMC Ghost cable, but there are definitely some cable combinations that don't work in my experience. I don't understand the "Host" standard, but apparently not every B cable can support it. Its worth a try with the cables you have- try both orientations if one doesn't work.

I really disliked the amount of space the straight USB cables took up on my board and they were also pretty fragile as a result (I actually broke my DMC Ghost cable because of extra tension on one of the cable ends on my board), so I did some experimenting with cheap right-angle and then up/down-angle USB cables for my C4 + DMC combo that allowed me to save a ton of space on the pedalboard and route the cables in between the bars and underneath my Pedaltrain board. I ended up using three cables together for mine, but I don't doubt there is a single cable option somewhere that works. At least using a dual-cable like the Ghost adapter works great so you can just split the junction to plug the C4 into your computer without plugging/unplugging directly from the pedals every time which risks damaging those sensitive connectors (did I mention how I hate USB connectors?!!).

Here are the cables I ended up using. These two:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015PRGS08/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Mated with this one in between:
1ft CablesOnline USB 2.0 Mini-B 5-Pin to Mini-B 5-Pin Male/Male Cable, USB2-5501 30955275475 | eBay

Awesome, thank you very much. I have a bunch of cables that look like the middle cable so I'm gonna give them a shot but I ordered a pair of the top ones based on your recommendation from an earlier post. My board is super crowded as well.

 

[Hummergeist]

Awesome, thank you very much. I have a bunch of cables that look like the middle cable so I'm gonna give them a shot but I ordered a pair of the top ones based on your recommendation from an earlier post. My board is super crowded as well.

I'm in the same boat with USB cables. I've got communications between Micro Pro and C4 working with a USB male-to-male adaptor and a couple of USB A to mini USB cables. But it's messy. I now have various adaptors on order, I'll post a pic when I get it tidy.

 

[moon-bass]

I'm in the same boat with USB cables. I've got communications between Micro Pro and C4 working with a USB male-to-male adaptor and a couple of USB A to mini USB cables. But it's messy. I now have various adaptors on order, I'll post a pic when I get it tidy.

USPS arbitrarily decided to send my Micro Pro back to the dealer for some reason, so it's going to be a few more days for me ..

 

[Hummergeist]

USPS arbitrarily decided to send my Micro Pro back to the dealer for some reason, so it's going to be a few more days for me ..

Agh, frustrating. If it's any consolation, I had to wait quite a while for one to be available here in the UK. Disaster Area stuff is rare here.

 

[MascisMan]

@rsmith601

I am trying to configure my Neural QC to control a few simple parameters of my C4 Synth and running in to a communication issue between the two devices. It seems like the CC command is not getting from the QC to the C4.

In order to get the 5 pin MIDI down to mini USB (C4) I am using a MIDI to USB-A and then an adapter (USB-A to mini USB).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VWTD7CQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09JFP1HZW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

I believe this is where the breakdown is occurring. To troubleshoot the QC I used a standard 5-pin to 5-pin cable from the QC to my HxStomp and it worked no problem. So I know the QC is sending the CC message correctly.

When I send the CC message from the QC to the C4 the smaller green LED on the C4 does not trigger. So I'm pretty sure it is not being received.

Do I need to use a USB host in between? Something like this:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Not sure where to go from here.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Hummergeist]

@rsmith601

I am trying to configure my Neural QC to control a few simple parameters of my C4 Synth and running in to a communication issue between the two devices. It seems like the CC command is not getting from the QC to the C4.

In order to get the 5 pin MIDI down to mini USB (C4) I am using a MIDI to USB-A and then an adapter (USB-A to mini USB).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VWTD7CQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09JFP1HZW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

I believe this is where the breakdown is occurring. To troubleshoot the QC I used a standard 5-pin to 5-pin cable from the QC to my HxStomp and it worked no problem. So I know the QC is sending the CC message correctly.

When I send the CC message from the QC to the C4 the smaller green LED on the C4 does not trigger. So I'm pretty sure it is not being received.

Do I need to use a USB host in between? Something like this:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Not sure where to go from here.

Thanks for your help!

My initial thought is 'yes' you need a USB host when no computer is involved (I use the micro pro), but there will be others on here with greater knowledge.

 

[Derek Williams]

@rsmith601

I am trying to configure my Neural QC to control a few simple parameters of my C4 Synth and running in to a communication issue between the two devices. It seems like the CC command is not getting from the QC to the C4.

In order to get the 5 pin MIDI down to mini USB (C4) I am using a MIDI to USB-A and then an adapter (USB-A to mini USB).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VWTD7CQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09JFP1HZW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

I believe this is where the breakdown is occurring. To troubleshoot the QC I used a standard 5-pin to 5-pin cable from the QC to my HxStomp and it worked no problem. So I know the QC is sending the CC message correctly.

When I send the CC message from the QC to the C4 the smaller green LED on the C4 does not trigger. So I'm pretty sure it is not being received.

Do I need to use a USB host in between? Something like this:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Not sure where to go from here.

Thanks for your help!

Yes, a USB host is required to send MIDI to the C4 through USB.