source audio c4

[RudyTardy]

I'm using standard MIDI cables to a SA Hub right now. I do have USB cables that remain wired in place to the Hub and my C4 and remain coiled under my board when I'm not using an editor and haven't had a problem. I have a DMC 3XL, C4, Hub & AS all on my board. I've never noticed a problem when I have any of the USB's in use while at home and 'editing' any given sounds on a pedal or hub though, and I was just plugged in and editing a few minutes ago, so pretty recently.

My power supply is a TrueTone CS-12, which has all of the outputs isolated from each other though. In the past I've run into some issues with daisy-chaining where mutilple digital pedals on the same tap or even a mix of digital/analog pedals on the same tap may cause hums, digital whines or noise and it takes some 'trial and error' to find which pedals power well together. Also, I've found that certain pedals are less friendly in sharing supplies than others (I'm lookin' at you Strymon Timeline). My feeling from watching my guitarist and keyboard player is that sometimes power supply design can make it all more difficult. They both use Voodoo Labs Mondos and have way more fussy noise issues than I do with the CS12.

Interesting. I’m using the TrueTone CS6. The amount of noise when using the editor via USB varies greatly depending on what is connected to the laptop. With no peripherals connected and laptop on battery, noise is all dependent on the USB cable itself. Wiggle it around and you can hear interference.

 

[Chace90]

I'm using standard MIDI cables to a SA Hub right now. I do have USB cables that remain wired in place to the Hub and my C4 and remain coiled under my board when I'm not using an editor and haven't had a problem. I have a DMC 3XL, C4, Hub & AS all on my board. I've never noticed a problem when I have any of the USB's in use while at home and 'editing' any given sounds on a pedal or hub though, and I was just plugged in and editing a few minutes ago, so pretty recently.

My power supply is a TrueTone CS-12, which has all of the outputs isolated from each other though. In the past I've run into some issues with daisy-chaining where mutilple digital pedals on the same tap or even a mix of digital/analog pedals on the same tap may cause hums, digital whines or noise and it takes some 'trial and error' to find which pedals power well together. Also, I've found that certain pedals are less friendly in sharing supplies than others (I'm lookin' at you Strymon Timeline). My feeling from watching my guitarist and keyboard player is that sometimes power supply design can make it all more difficult. They both use Voodoo Labs Mondos and have way more fussy noise issues than I do with the CS12.

Very few digital pedals like being on a shared supply, as evidenced by noise issues, frequently a high pitched whine. Hence it's a good idea to keep digital pedals on an isolated supply. Many analog pedals are daisy chain friendly, but it's important to make sure the total current draw doesn't exceed what the supply can give.

As for the USB noise issues, I get noise when I edit via USB on my C4 and connected to an amp. USB from a computer will usually create a ground loop. It's just the nature of USB on computers, they're not isolated. Doesn't matter that the pedal isn't necessarily drawing any power over USB.

 

[kesslari]

Interesting. I’m using the TrueTone CS6. The amount of noise when using the editor via USB varies greatly depending on what is connected to the laptop. With no peripherals connected and laptop on battery, noise is all dependent on the USB cable itself. Wiggle it around and you can hear interference.

I'm using the C6 with no noise. But I haven't tried listening while wiggling the cable - then again, I don't try to wiggle the cable much in my applications.

 

[rsmith601]

Interesting. I’m using the TrueTone CS6. The amount of noise when using the editor via USB varies greatly depending on what is connected to the laptop. With no peripherals connected and laptop on battery, noise is all dependent on the USB cable itself. Wiggle it around and you can hear interference.

You can get USB isolation devices that solve this.

 

[BurningSkies]

I'm using the C6 with no noise. But I haven't tried listening while wiggling the cable - then again, I don't try to wiggle the cable much in my applications.

The TrueTones are different from most supplies...they're SMPS with the added bonus of all the taps being isolated they have this happening:
A major benefit of using a switching power supply is that it can handle far more current (power being pulled out of it) than any transformer-based power supply. Although we had to put power rating labels on each output to satisfy certification agencies (yes, we actually certified these, unlike most companies), the outputs can generally handle far more than the label shows. For example, you can connect a 300mA pedal to a 200mA output, without causing any problems. With a transformer-based power supply, you can’t get away with that. The important thing is to not exceed the total of all the labels.

 

[KPO2000]

I use a power supply with isolated outputs and have terrible noise problems when any USB cables are attached to the C4. That said, I don’t have the micro

I also have noise problems when I have the USB connecting the C4 to my laptop, but I find that they go away when I run my laptop off my battery instead of the the power adapter.

 

[bassbrad]

I must be an outlier using a 1Spot + daisy chain to power my board* without noise issues as well as usb midi hub connecting my SA and Zoom pedals to a computer also without and noise issues at home, gigs or studios.

*My board has a mix of old and new analog and digital pedals 14 in total.

 

[rsmith601]

I also have noise problems when I have the USB connecting the C4 to my laptop, but I find that they go away when I run my laptop off my battery instead of the the power adapter.

Yup. That works too!

 

[Matty Koff]

I must be an outlier using a 1Spot + daisy chain to power my board* without noise issues as well as usb midi hub connecting my SA and Zoom pedals to a computer also without and noise issues at home, gigs or studios.

*My board has a mix of old and new analog and digital pedals 14 in total.

Personally I've never experienced hums related to daisy chaining from a power supply.. but I'd attribute that to the fact I make sure I have enough current to cover all of the pedals my chain.

Your Onespot has a total of 1700ma to cover those needs. When you start getting into power supplies with isolated outputs - even on my expensive cioks most of the jacks are 100/200/250/400ma, with one jack capable of 12v 600ma (which is why I bought it, for my Markbass compressore)

Always a good idea check the technical specs of a given pedal to see its power draw to ensure you have room for it.

 

[bassbrad]

Personally I've never experienced hums related to daisy chaining from a power supply.. but I'd attribute that to the fact I make sure I have enough current to cover all of the pedals my chain.

Your Onespot has a total of 1700ma to cover those needs. When you start getting into power supplies with isolated outputs - even on my expensive cioks most of the jacks are 100/200/250/400ma, with one jack capable of 12v 600ma (which is why I bought it, for my Markbass compressore)

Always a good idea check the technical specs of a given pedal to see its power draw to ensure you have room for it.

I learned that when I got one of those nifty Furman SPC8C pedalboards that were all the rage and tried using the power outlets, didn't power all my pedals at the time Akai UniBass, Deep Impact and Zoom B2.1u had to use the wall warts until i got a 1Spot. Had noise until i daisy chained the whole line. I would have just gone back to the Boss PSM5 that was noise free but I didn't have it and couldn't find one.

 

[GisserD]

You never want to plug a pedal in to a power source providing less ma than you need. More is fine. Less can cause damage
.

Really!?!?

 

[Matty Koff]

Really!?!?

Unsure if sarcasm or genuine -

In the case of your response not being sarcasm.. then.. first my apologies for the assumption and yes really.. and I wouldn't think any less of anyone for not being aware of it personally, and am happy if I helped.

you can damage a pedal by underpowering it. It's not guaranteed to cause damage, but most manufacturers warn of the possibility in their instruction manuals. Each has both a voltage requirement, and total milliamp requirement. Digtal pedals tend to have a higher draw.

In the case of sarcasm - there's a lot of context missing from that one sentence from me, like who I was responding to, what power supply he was using and how easily one might overlook that it has 6 9v 150mA sockets, and two capable of 9/12/18 @ 500mA. a c4 requiring 9v 165mA might make some weird noises or function oddly using a power source outputting only 9v 150ma. It wouldn't be the first time pointing something like that out to someone helped them solve a problem.. and they probably appreciate knowing what to look for for future pedal and power supply purchases. In fact if it wasn't as easy as replacing a mono cable, that's been the only time I've personally heard unusual hums or squealing from someone's pedal board. A pedal using an inadequate power supply. Not everybody understands this stuff.. we're human.

 

[Basshappi]

Well, my guitarist surprised me with a C4 for Christmas, might just keep him in the band.
Guess I've got a thread to read through now!

 

[Sotonian]

I was reading the Take On Me posts with interest as it is one I need to have nailed myself. I felt like I was getting close by going from the mono input to the sample reducer, into an inverted bandpass filter (missing out all synthesis!). With a bit of tweaking and the envelope adjusted for the attack etc, it doesn't sound a million miles away. I haven't saved a patch but someone with more time than me may have some luck refining this!

 

[fivestringgecko]

@fivestringgecko has been killing the presets recently!

Thanks for the positive vibes @rsmith601! Means a good bit coming from THE guy at Source Audio! The C4 has proven to be a ton of fun, and I'm really enjoying programming sounds for it. I've still got a few that I'm working on that are waiting for upload, just need to get them to where I'm happy with them.

I was reading the Take On Me posts with interest as it is one I need to have nailed myself. I felt like I was getting close by going from the mono input to the sample reducer, into an inverted bandpass filter (missing out all synthesis!). With a bit of tweaking and the envelope adjusted for the attack etc, it doesn't sound a million miles away. I haven't saved a patch but someone with more time than me may have some luck refining this!

I'm working on a couple different Take On Me patches and feel like I've almost got them as close as they're going to get. I'm following everything you're saying except for the Sample Reducer part. I'm not seeing anything about a Sample Reducer in the manual...?

5sg.

 

[sunbeast]

Unsure if sarcasm or genuine -

In the case of your response not being sarcasm.. then.. first my apologies for the assumption and yes really.. and I wouldn't think any less of anyone for not being aware of it personally, and am happy if I helped.

you can damage a pedal by underpowering it. It's not guaranteed to cause damage, but most manufacturers warn of the possibility in their instruction manuals. Each has both a voltage requirement, and total milliamp requirement. Digtal pedals tend to have a higher draw.

In the case of sarcasm - there's a lot of context missing from that one sentence from me, like who I was responding to, what power supply he was using and how easily one might overlook that it has 6 9v 150mA sockets, and two capable of 9/12/18 @ 500mA. a c4 requiring 9v 165mA might make some weird noises or function oddly using a power source outputting only 9v 150ma. It wouldn't be the first time pointing something like that out to someone helped them solve a problem.. and they probably appreciate knowing what to look for for future pedal and power supply purchases. In fact if it wasn't as easy as replacing a mono cable, that's been the only time I've personally heard unusual hums or squealing from someone's pedal board. A pedal using an inadequate power supply. Not everybody understands this stuff.. we're human.

Inadequate mA won’t damage a pedal, it just won’t function correctly. The worst thing that I could imagine with a digital pedal is that it might lose saved info, but it wouldn’t be damaged. The only thing here that would damage a pedal is too much voltage.

 

[Matty Koff]

Inadequate mA won’t damage a pedal, it just won’t function correctly. The worst thing that I could imagine with a digital pedal is that it might lose saved info, but it wouldn’t be damaged. The only thing here that would damage a pedal is too much voltage.

Re-reading a few manuals you're likely right. The damage concern is more about plugging positive/negative center plugs into jacks not designed for them, and unregulated supplies. Still... it's worth reading the manual or the specs of a pedal before you try to power it so you can match voltage and current. *shrug* I've not purchased a piece of musical equipment that didn't specify exactly what it's power needs are within a manual or a product spec sheet. Really no reason to ever underpower a pedal if you read the documentation that comes with it. No judgement there but experiencing this once should be enough to get someone in the habit of at least reading this much from the supplied booklet or product web page.

 

[Sotonian]

I'm working on a couple different Take On Me patches and feel like I've almost got them as close as they're going to get. I'm following everything you're saying except for the Sample Reducer part. I'm not seeing anything about a Sample Reducer in the manual...?

5sg.

I found the Sample Reducer in the list of distortions. Used drive at around 1 or 2 o clock to try and get those metallic sounding frequencies then I guess the filter rolled them off a little. Quite low depth and Q on the filter. I'll try and play around with it more later!

 

[fivestringgecko]

I found the Sample Reducer in the list of distortions. Used drive at around 1 or 2 o clock to try and get those metallic sounding frequencies then I guess the filter rolled them off a little. Quite low depth and Q on the filter. I'll try and play around with it more later!

Ah right, there it is. Thanks for the reminder! (derp!) I looked through the manual and even did a search for "sample reducer," which isn't actually mentioned in the rule book. ha ha

I'll look forward to checking out your tips for this patch and will report back when I get a chance to sit down and work on it.

5sg.

 

[Sotonian]

Ah right, there it is. Thanks for the reminder! (derp!) I looked through the manual and even did a search for "sample reducer," which isn't actually mentioned in the rule book. ha ha

I'll look forward to checking out your tips for this patch and will report back when I get a chance to sit down and work on it.

5sg.

I hope it helps even a little bit, seems to be difficult to make it sound as clean as it needs to be still. I don't really know my way around the pedal yet and I'm going to be relying on your great patches I'm sure while I try and get my head around it!