I've been trying to program this one for the longest time too, it's a staple song in the 80's band I sub with and their bassist just recently got a C4. I just can't get a patch put together that sounds like the original bass track.
5sg.
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source audio c4
- Thread starter drewphishesp
- Start date
I've been trying to program this one for the longest time too, it's a staple song in the 80's band I sub with and their bassist just recently got a C4. I just can't get a patch put together that sounds like the original bass track.
5sg.
I spent some time trying to get this too and failed. The DX7 E.BASS 1 is a sound that I haven't been able to get with any pedals. I got excited by the possibilities of FM on the C4, but it doesn't quite work out.
I broke apart the patch (using Dexed) and it should be possible to get close even with just two oscillators (operators). The main ingredients seem to be one operator at f=5 (5 times the root frequency, 2 and a bit octaves up) with a short decay modulating another operator at f=0.5 (one octave down) with a longer decay. Both oscillators set to sine.
The issue for the C4 is that it does its FM before the envelopes are applied to the audio. Even you apply a short envelope it doesn't affect the amount of FM modulation between the two oscillators, so you don't get the movement from bright to dark. Limitations of the DSP I guess.
If you use Input as the source for FM, then it does modulate the oscillator with the 'envelope' of your bass's signal. But you can't tweak the envelope and my bass decays much too slowly to get the DX7 sound. Maybe you could use a compressor before the C4 to tweak the envelope, but that's getting complicated.
Don't get me wrong, I've got some fun FM sounds from the C4 and love it as a synth pedal. I just can't get the DX7 patch from it.
Months ago that all would have flewn way over my head. I'm learning!
Hello guys!
I'm french so sorry for my bad english...
I bought the C4 last month. I love it! The sound is so hudge!
But i'm disappointed because for me it isn't possible to use the lfo with a midi sync...
I play with loops so when i have a strait rythm effect, this one have to be synchronised all the time.
When i try the C4 with loop and midi sync. It is on time on the first beat but quickly it's slowing down.
And when i compare the tempo of my DAO and the C4 one. Those are differents.
For example if the tempo of my DAO is 80, the C4 one is 79.80.
Can someone reproduce this issue?
Thanks
I'm french so sorry for my bad english...
I bought the C4 last month. I love it! The sound is so hudge!
But i'm disappointed because for me it isn't possible to use the lfo with a midi sync...
I play with loops so when i have a strait rythm effect, this one have to be synchronised all the time.
When i try the C4 with loop and midi sync. It is on time on the first beat but quickly it's slowing down.
And when i compare the tempo of my DAO and the C4 one. Those are differents.
For example if the tempo of my DAO is 80, the C4 one is 79.80.
Can someone reproduce this issue?
Thanks
Hey! Anyone up for a little "how-close-can-i-get-to-this-sound" challenge? If so, I'd love help understanding what my new C4 can do (and how do it myself) as we try to replicate this. Thanks!!
Yes, the only thing that the Spectrum gets over the C4 is the extended mode two extra controls. Other than that the C4 does exactly what the Intelligent Filter does but with the added synth layer.
Some guys are buying both, putting the C4 early in their chain and an Intelligent Filter late in their chain....or if you have a Boss ES-5/8 then anywhere really....
C4 just landed at my place today. Wow! I’m already deep down the rabbit hole. Looks like I’ll be taking EHX Micro Synth, EBS Octobass, and MXR Script Phase 90 off my little board.
Now waiting on my DMC.micro to ship before I can actually put it on the board. I’m not planning to use it live until I’ve got access to all the presets I’m building/ stealing.
This thing does so much. It’s gonna be a long journey, but an amazing one.
Thanks to all you folks in this thread and those that have uploaded their work. Really cool feature to have that community out there for support.
Now waiting on my DMC.micro to ship before I can actually put it on the board. I’m not planning to use it live until I’ve got access to all the presets I’m building/ stealing.
This thing does so much. It’s gonna be a long journey, but an amazing one.
Thanks to all you folks in this thread and those that have uploaded their work. Really cool feature to have that community out there for support.
I'd love to hear what preset you create/created to replace your Phase 90! I think the C4 is a great option for a phaser tone.C4 just landed at my place today. Wow! I’m already deep down the rabbit hole. Looks like I’ll be taking EHX Micro Synth, EBS Octobass, and MXR Script Phase 90 off my little board.
Now waiting on my DMC.micro to ship before I can actually put it on the board. I’m not planning to use it live until I’ve got access to all the presets I’m building/ stealing.
This thing does so much. It’s gonna be a long journey, but an amazing one.
Thanks to all you folks in this thread and those that have uploaded their work. Really cool feature to have that community out there for support.
Nobody to check my midi sync issue?
I haven’t tried this because I don’t have any other midi devices, but the manual says you can select the “midi clock” button for both LFO1 and LFO2. This is done in the Neuro desktop editor and you’d need to do this for every preset you want to stay in sync with your device.
That’s what the manual says, but I don’t know about the connections between your C4 and the device in question. Somebody smarter will need to chime in on that, but you can share how you’ve connected the devices.
edit to add:
Check the manual for your other device to see if the following statement applies...
“The C4 does not sync to MIDI timecode containing SMPTE timestamps.”
Last edited:
Hi! I downloaded the “3-Stage Phaser” from the community. I then began tweaking the parameters to get closer to how I’ve been setting my Phase 90. The sounds are not identical, but for my purposes, the C4 does a perfectly acceptable, if not better, phase shifter sound.
I’m going to run with it live to see how it stands up. I’ll report back once I’ve done that, but it may be a while because I don’t know when the DMC micro will arrive, and I’m not going to be able to access that preset location on the fly. I don’t want to be fiddling with the C4 other than levels when I’m gigging.
Yes i know how to use the midi sync but for me there is an issue with the tempo.
Interesting. I would think that you’re either sync’d or not sync’d, not sync’d and drifting apart on tempo. Sounds peculiar.
Yes it's hard to explain specally if you aren't bilingual!
i have to check it one more time during my hollyday but i'm shure that if you set the C4 with midi sync. The Dao send a 80 bpm and the C4 play a 79.80 tempo and if you listen you can feel the fx drifting appart compared to the sequence. Obviously i can try to set the C4 with a 80 bpm without midi sync but for me it's a shame and it would have to work with midi sync!
Gibs210
Commercial User
- Aug 31, 2019
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this has more to do with midi clock than the pedal, midi clock isn’t as precise as people think it is, and different devices process the clock in different ways. 2/10ths of a BPM is pretty minuscule. Your not going to notice the difference within the first 2 seconds. The pedal is constantly processing the sync signal, unlike tap tempo, so it’s going to shift occasionally to line itself up again. Tap tempo would just drift apart as tome goes on.
I have to do some test to compare different brands because i think that with a strymon effect the midi is managed as well. I use midi sync with sonuus, strymon and line 6 and it's working pretty good.
When I tryed the c4 with midi sync for me it dosen't shift occasionnally. For the first mesure the fx is on time and the second it's completely disynchronised wich isn't musical... i would do some sample during my hollydays.
I've been working on a Take On Me patch for a while now, and Special thanks to @Chace90 for sending me a recording of the isolated bass track, which is what I was comparing to for my patches:
After quite a few hours of programming and making tweaks, taking a break and revisiting a day or two later (several times), these four audio samples are where I'm at.
One is a 4-voice patch using four voices: Saw 1, Saw 2 Oct+1, Mono Pitch 1 Oct+1 and Sine 1 with only some mild FM. I used Phagor's suggestion to use just two sine waves with FM for the second patch, but I think it sounds a little too dirty. I also tried both patches with chorus after. I'm thinking that these might be as close as I'm/the C4 is going to get to the original sound.
@Phagor, I think we've ended up on the same page. I've had a ton of fun with the C4, but I think this particular sound might be something that it just can't quite do. Maybe it has something to do with your point about the FM being before the envelope, similar to the sound difference of dirt > envelope filter vs envelope filter > dirt...?
I haven't had a chance to try either patch in a live setting yet, so they may get some further adjustments. Once I get them finalized, I'll upload to the Neuro Community of course.
All that said, I'm sure my band and/or Joe Public would be pretty happy with either one of these as is in a mix.
On with the samples.
5sg.
I've been working on a Take On Me patch for a while now, and Special thanks to @Chace90 for sending me a recording of the isolated bass track, which is what I was comparing to for my patches:
After quite a few hours of programming and making tweaks, taking a break and revisiting a day or two later (several times), these four audio samples are where I'm at.
One is a 4-voice patch using four voices: Saw 1, Saw 2 Oct+1, Mono Pitch 1 Oct+1 and Sine 1 with only some mild FM. I used Phagor's suggestion to use just two sine waves with FM for the second patch, but I think it sounds a little too dirty. I also tried both patches with chorus after. I'm thinking that these might be as close as I'm/the C4 is going to get to the original sound.
@Phagor, I think we've ended up on the same page. I've had a ton of fun with the C4, but I think this particular sound might be something that it just can't quite do. Maybe it has something to do with your point about the FM being before the envelope, similar to the sound difference of dirt > envelope filter vs envelope filter > dirt...?
I haven't had a chance to try either patch in a live setting yet, so they may get some further adjustments. Once I get them finalized, I'll upload to the Neuro Community of course.
All that said, I'm sure my band and/or Joe Public would be pretty happy with either one of these as is in a mix.
On with the samples.
5sg.
Impressive! I have no C4 (yet) and know very little about synths in general, but might still offer a comment?
The third and forth ones are too dirty. Still cool, though! I think nr two is closest. Still a bit too buzzy and with too much low mids. Scoop away, Sir!
I think the original has some sort of detune (just a little) and some modulation, perhaps a little flanger (or is it a dynamic filter I hear in the attacks?). Transients are also WAY brighter than anything I have heard from the C4 so far. Transients sound almost like a line of even order harmonics, extending high up in the treble region.
Thanks for the positive words @AlexanderB.
I agree with you 100% on the two FM samples. I like the sound, but it's a little too dirty for this particular song. As I was making the patch, I tried various FM settings with the Sine voices, but it always sounded too dirty even at lower settings. I think it goes back to @Phagor's point of where the FM happens in the signal chain.
I also think you're right about a little something extra with the note attack in the original and I tried getting it, but adding more depth and/or Q to the envelope didn't sound right on the C4. I even tried inverting the envelope for a downward attack, but that sounded even less right. None of the ADSR envelopes sounded quite right either, and they also introduced some triggering issues, so I find myself wondering if actual ADSR controls might help more here.
This patch has been frustrating me for a while, but I'm fairly happy with where I've ended up. I wonder if I'm missing something in the C4, so I'll probably tinker with it a bit more before I upload it to the Community.
5sg.
