Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[rsmith601]

Have you guys thought about going Bluetooth with out the adapter? Like the h9. That would be sweet. I know you would have to do it on a new series, because of continuity and all. Something to think about for the future. Or hey make a blue tooth hub version. Connect to the hub via Bluetooth and you could configure the pedals that are connected and then you wouldn’t have to buy all new pedals for the feature. Just a new hub.

Everyone forgets that one can have only one or at best 2 Bluetooth conversations at one time. With USB or the Neuro Mobile I can talk to infinite SA pedals at the same time, which is vital for setting up scenes. For this reason Bluetooth MUST be in the Hub. Also adding an antenna to something like the Aftershock would make it ugly. The H9 has the antenna in the display. We have given this lots of thought. When Hub 2.0 happens, it will have Bluetooth.

 

[rsmith601]

So does that avoid all the FFT windowing and the latency that comes with it? I'd just assumed that was how it was done digitally.

That is correct. No FFT windowing. We were very focused during this project on developing a blazing fast and accurate time-domain monophonic pitch shifter. I think other pedal companies have been less focused on this aspect.

 

[rsmith601]

This makes me sad. The Soundblox 2 series was, to me, some of the best pedal design I’ve come across. So well thought-out.

I know. But, too many people hated it. "It looks like it's going to sound digital" was a typical comment.

 

[Kijuer]

We thought it was practical and effective (we are engineers, what do we know?). But, way too many people said it was ugly and complicated. SB2 is on the way to being dead.

Whoa, so bad. I thought they were f.....n' awesome. Ugly? That's pointless to me, and too subjective to make a point. Complicated? At first I thought it was, until I started fiddlin' "consciously" with it and found it was great, and easy to set.

 

[Kijuer]

Off topic....can I have a number?

 

[Adamixoye]

I don't think the SB2 format was that confusing - it was nice to have more of the controls accessible, two switches, etc. It was a little frustrating not necessarily knowing where you were as you delved into backpage parameters, but it worked. I didn't mind the footprint; I might have liked it to be a bit more squared away.

 

[ChubbyJerk]

Everyone forgets that one can have only one or at best 2 Bluetooth conversations at one time. With USB or the Neuro Mobile I can talk to infinite SA pedals at the same time, which is vital for setting up scenes. For this reason Bluetooth MUST be in the Hub. Also adding an antenna to something like the Aftershock would make it ugly. The H9 has the antenna in the display. We have given this lots of thought. When Hub 2.0 happens, it will have Bluetooth.

Has there been any thought given to a multi-fx pedal based on the One series? I know the Hub plus Soleman gets you kinda the same thing, but...eh.

 

[Melvin7822]

I know a number of people mentioned wanting a Nemesis/Ventris enclosure for the C4 Synth architecture. Musing for a bit, when I first heard that the C4 Synth would be comprised of 2 pedals with a unified architecture, a different thought had crossed my mind than 2 almost identical pedals.

I had thought about both pedals (Elevon and Spectrum) being 2 parts of a whole. Granted 2 pedals doesn't save space compared to a Nemesis/Ventris, but it does allow for more flexibility of placement.

I had imagined the Spectrum with what it has now minus 1 filter section and the polyphonic mode and the Elevon minus 1 filter section. In this manner, more processing could be used on the Elevon to focus on a legit polyphonic mode. Both pedals would still stand up well on their own, but be even more powerful together and could be edited as a single pedal in the Neuro app.

 

[rsmith601]

Has there been any thought given to a multi-fx pedal based on the One series? I know the Hub plus Soleman gets you kinda the same thing, but...eh.

This is an interesting philosophical question and it gets to the heart of our thinking. Yes, we could do one big box with lots of controls to compete with Helix and Fractal. There are certainly some advantages to that approach. Or, we can give you a modular system that allows you to build up your own "smart" pedal board with the mix and match of effects that you want. There is a nice list of advantages to this approach too, and for many people it is more effective and more fun than Fractal or Helix.

 

[ChubbyJerk]

This is an interesting philosophical question and it gets to the heart of our thinking. Yes, we could do one big box with lots of controls to compete with Helix and Fractal. There are certainly some advantages to that approach. Or, we can give you a modular system that allows you to build up your own "smart" pedal board with the mix and match of effects that you want. There is a nice list of advantages to this approach too, and for many people it is more effective and more fun than Fractal or Helix.

I understand. Pros and cons to both. And in the end it comes down to personal preference. And my personal preference may not match with the largest part of the market. If you happen to be doing any market research on the topic, however, put me down in the column for a multi.

Even if it was still programmed through the Neuro app - to cut down on cost by eliminating a screen and GUI development and so on - I would consider it a big step up. There's a lot of overhead, both in actual $ costs and in time/hassle, for setting up the modular board.

Again, personal preference. And I understand your limited resources compared to a company like Line 6. So I'm not trying to be negative in any way, just giving an opinion on my preference.

 

[Alien8]

This is an interesting philosophical question and it gets to the heart of our thinking. Yes, we could do one big box with lots of controls to compete with Helix and Fractal. There are certainly some advantages to that approach. Or, we can give you a modular system that allows you to build up your own "smart" pedal board with the mix and match of effects that you want. There is a nice list of advantages to this approach too, and for many people it is more effective and more fun than Fractal or Helix.

But how much Source Audio gear can you really get for $800? Dont forget the cables to hook all that up in stereo.

 

[rsmith601]

I know a number of people mentioned wanting a Nemesis/Ventris enclosure for the C4 Synth architecture. Musing for a bit, when I first heard that the C4 Synth would be comprised of 2 pedals with a unified architecture, a different thought had crossed my mind than 2 almost identical pedals.

I had thought about both pedals (Elevon and Spectrum) being 2 parts of a whole. Granted 2 pedals doesn't save space compared to a Nemesis/Ventris, but it does allow for more flexibility of placement.

I had imagined the Spectrum with what it has now minus 1 filter section and the polyphonic mode and the Elevon minus 1 filter section. In this manner, more processing could be used on the Elevon to focus on a legit polyphonic mode. Both pedals would still stand up well on their own, but be even more powerful together and could be edited as a single pedal in the Neuro app.

Oh, if we only had 3-6 more months of Jesse's time to pull off something like this! Massively complicated. Too complicated. As I have noted, we are trying to find a reasonable way to deliver this technology that will make it better than breakeven for us. Breakeven and losing money is bad.
I don't know the math for other companies, but if we create something like Nemesis/Ventris, we need to sell 5000 to 10,000 units at $300 to $400 to make it worth it. A C4 product in Nemesis/Ventris format cannot sell in those volumes, I believe.

 

[rsmith601]

I understand. Pros and cons to both. And in the end it comes down to personal preference. And my personal preference may not match with the largest part of the market. If you happen to be doing any market research on the topic, however, put me down in the column for a multi.

Even if it was still programmed through the Neuro app - to cut down on cost by eliminating a screen and GUI development and so on - I would consider it a big step up. There's a lot of overhead, both in actual $ costs and in time/hassle, for setting up the modular board.

Again, personal preference. And I understand your limited resources compared to a company like Line 6. So I'm not trying to be negative in any way, just giving an opinion on my preference.

It is a fair point and you are being very respectful in communication. We can only go one path or the other due to our size. Individual pedals that can talk to each other is our choice. I would note that a Nemesis/Ventris/Aftershock/Spectrum system cannot be matched by any all-in-one (I know, I am biased)

 

[ChubbyJerk]

It is a fair point and you are being very respectful in communication. We can only go one path or the other due to our size. Individual pedals that can talk to each other is our choice. I would note that a Nemesis/Ventris/Aftershock/Spectrum system cannot be matched by any all-in-one (I know, I am biased)

I still plan on getting the new synth pedal. Even though you killed my dream of a Source Audio Mega Multi Pedal of Doom.

 

[Melvin7822]

Oh, if we only had 3-6 more months of Jesse's time to pull off something like this! Massively complicated. Too complicated. As I have noted, we are trying to find a reasonable way to deliver this technology that will make it better than breakeven for us. Breakeven and losing money is bad.
I don't know the math for other companies, but if we create something like Nemesis/Ventris, we need to sell 5000 to 10,000 units at $300 to $400 to make it worth it. A C4 product in Nemesis/Ventris format cannot sell in those volumes, I believe.

I definitely understand the math behind the bigger One Series boxes. A whole synth would be lucky to sell several hundred let alone several thousand. I've often wondered about the business model of creating multiple nearly identical pedals. In the case of the C4 products, I'd be concerned that most people would just grab the first pedal in the series to be released. That's why I envisioned some split of functionality between the 2 pedals to give incentive to owning both while at the same time making their core function stronger.

That said, I appreciate that Source Audio can do what it does and still turn a profit.

 

[OhulahanBass]

That is correct. No FFT windowing. We were very focused during this project on developing a blazing fast and accurate time-domain monophonic pitch shifter. I think other pedal companies have been less focused on this aspect.

Fantastic!! Videos so far show amazing tracking! I am hooked.

 

[Fiset]

It is a fair point and you are being very respectful in communication. We can only go one path or the other due to our size. Individual pedals that can talk to each other is our choice. I would note that a Nemesis/Ventris/Aftershock/Spectrum system cannot be matched by any all-in-one (I know, I am biased)

Put me down as someone who far prefers the modular system I have with a Nemesis, Aftershock, Lunar Phaser, Programmable EQ (and soon to add, C4) all controlled with a Hub and Soleman. The versatility I have is off the charts. I sometimes think people don’t fully understand just how powerful the One Series pedals are, especially when combined with the Hub and a midi controller. And the Soleman is another under-talked about product that is extremely simple yet massively useful. To me this system is the best of both worlds and I can’t wait to add a C4 (and whatever comes later) to the SA ecosystem that dominates my board and has literally changed how I view the instrument.

 

[rsmith601]

Put me down as someone who far prefers the modular system I have with a Nemesis, Aftershock, Lunar Phaser, Programmable EQ (and soon to add, C4) all controlled with a Hub and Soleman. The versatility I have is off the charts. I sometimes think people don’t fully understand just how powerful the One Series pedals are, especially when combined with the Hub and a midi controller. And the Soleman is another under-talked about product that is extremely simple yet massively useful. To me this system is the best of both worlds and I can’t wait to add a C4 (and whatever comes later) to the SA ecosystem that dominates my board and has literally changed how I view the instrument.

This is certainly a marketing challenge for us at times. The power of our approach and tools is not self evident. I hope the integration of the Hub Manager intro the Desktop Editor moves the needle. In the meantime, testimony like this is priceless. Thank you!

 

[rsmith601]

Fantastic!! Videos so far show amazing tracking! I am hooked.

Have not seen your avatar in a while!!!

 

[ChubbyJerk]

Put me down as someone who far prefers the modular system I have with a Nemesis, Aftershock, Lunar Phaser, Programmable EQ (and soon to add, C4) all controlled with a Hub and Soleman. The versatility I have is off the charts. I sometimes think people don’t fully understand just how powerful the One Series pedals are, especially when combined with the Hub and a midi controller.

I owned a Helix for a long time (and an HX Effects). Our versatility charts may be scaled a little differently. Don't fool yourself into thinking people don't like it because they just don't understand it. It just isn't for everyone. And that's ok.

I don't want to argue, but I also don't want the downsides to be viewed as illegitimate or just a misunderstanding. Even if they don't go with my preferred solution of a multi, maybe they can come up with an innovative solution or new product.