Adamixoye
A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?
- Apr 9, 2012
- 18,158
- 69,338
- Disclosures
- Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
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Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3
- Thread starter gregmon79
- Start date
Three things stood out to me from that comprehensive review. I'll probably make an account to give that post a like lol I just learned so much about the SY300.
- "Easier to dial in good tones"
- "Smaller"
- $400 price difference
- "Easier to dial in good tones"
- "Smaller"
- $400 price difference
As somebody who used to own an SY300 and now owns a C4, I'd say it's a decently unbiased breakdown of the differences.
It does leave off a few things. For example, the SY300 can be used as a USB audio interface, which is cool, but certainly a relatively minor "bell and whistle" type thing. (I'd consider that a major feature in the realm of general-purpose DI and/or amp sim and/or multi-fx type pedals, but not for this type of pedal). And on the flip side, it doesn't address potential benefits of the overall Source Audio ecosystem working together (I'm not into that scene, but many others are, and it's obviously a huge perk to them).
I would disagree with is the idea that they don't overlap much. I mean...I can certainly see that they would each have sounds you couldn't get out of the other. BUT...they're obviously filling the same role, and I can't see the average person ever putting both on the same board.
The biggest differences to me are probably the price, size, and programming. But again, it's all trade-offs. The programmability of the SY300 requires the bigger size; it just isn't humanly possible to do it in a small pedal. It mandates a decent-sized screen which necessitates a price increase, both for the hardware itself and the development behind it. Etc. Trade-offs, pros and cons.
Sound-wise, they have different strengths and weaknesses. A big question any potential purchaser has to ask is, do I want to have a pedal that can create cool synth sounds? Or do I have a very specific sound in mind that I want to recreate with the pedal? The answer to that question is important. If you have a specific song with a specific synth sound you're trying to recreate, I am inclined to believe that the C4 is probably more likely to get you there in most cases.
And really, I think the most important thing is the price. For many people, synths are a fringe interest. Like, "it would be cool, but I'd only use it on a handful of songs so I'm not going to dump a huge amount of money for it." And the pedals that are affordable are...gimmicky or cheesy. That's just now starting to change. And I think, hands-down, the C4 is the best sub-$300 synth pedal currently available.
To me, it isn't the C4 vs the SY300. That's unfair to both parties, in my opinion. The SY300 blows the C4 away in terms of ease of use. But the C4 blows away the SY300 in terms of price. They aren't really comparable.
So it's really the C4 against the SY1, I think. And that pedal isn't out quite yet. And then, it's a different set of trade-offs. Very close in price, similar size, deeper customization for the C4 but you need an app, etc etc. That's been beat to death I think and the SY1 isn't even out yet.
It is always easier to complain about things not working or costing money, instead of engaging those grey cells. Tor is just an example. There are free providers. Google is your friend.
Edit: Tor is free.
The Tor Project | Privacy & Freedom Online
Three things stood out to me from that comprehensive review. I'll probably make an account to give that post a like lol I just learned so much about the SY300.
- "Easier to dial in good tones"
- "Smaller"
- $400 price difference
- "Easier to dial in good tones"
- "Smaller"
- $400 price difference
Adamixoye
A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?
- Apr 9, 2012
- 18,158
- 69,338
- Disclosures
- Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
A couple of notes on the prices:
First of all, SY300 has a big used market right now. I think his $400 used price is maybe a little low; they seem to go for a shade over $400 on average, probably $430ish. I do see some sold for $390 and $367 (price + shipping). But still, the $700 price is something you shouldn't eve have to pay. Even when I got a new one, back when it first came out, I paid sub-$600 just by calling a dealer directly and asking.
Secondly, if you look only at the $240 price for the C4, that means you're looking at a C4 that's limited to 6 presets that you have to bend over to switch between. And that significantly widens the usability gap in favor of the SY300. As soon as you add on a midi controller, you're adding ~$125 or more to the price.
Between those two factors, you're looking at a much closer price comparison. Greater than $350 for the C4 + midi controller, less than $450 for the SY300, so $100 price difference, give or take a bit. Obviously, if you have a midi controller already then that's not a factor, but you get the point.
On the "easier to dial in good tones"........um....I'd say that's subjective. I found the SY300 far easier to use overall. Maybe he had a harder time dialing in the specific tones he was looking for? For me, the C4 is frustrating to create sounds on. I've either got to go hook up to my computer, which is just a pain generally speaking and I haven't done it yet, or I'm trying to program a sound on my phone, which is just a pain generally speaking. Worth it, but not anything I would ever describe as "easy" or "fun".
Finally got my C4 yesterday and just a bit of time to play it.
I am beyond excited about this pedal and its potential!
Was mostly focusing on the program last night, understanding the ways to download and tweak settings. With this, I am not understanding the purpose of "My Library"? You can save cloud presets there, but once they are in your library, there is no way to put them on the device, save, etc. from the library
Maybe I'm missing something?
I am beyond excited about this pedal and its potential!
Was mostly focusing on the program last night, understanding the ways to download and tweak settings. With this, I am not understanding the purpose of "My Library"? You can save cloud presets there, but once they are in your library, there is no way to put them on the device, save, etc. from the library
Maybe I'm missing something?
If you're speaking of the desktop editor, I believe you can simply click (or double-click?) a preset in your library, cloud, etc. then switch back to "Device" at the top right, pick a numbered slot, and hit Save. Which will prompt you to give the preset a name.
If you're talking about the mobile app, I don't know first hand yet.
rsmith601
Commercial User
- Apr 14, 2009
- 4,461
- 8,356
- Disclosures
- CEO and Co-Founder, Source Audio
Lets say your library is open and you have a list of presets there. Swipe left on any preset and you get a nice little menu of options, including "BURN" This will allow you to add any preset from your library to your pedal. This also works when browsing the "community" presets. This applies to the mobile, by the way.
Like your screen name, too
After looking at the SW thing, you need to apply for their card to get $10 a month payments. That ain’t gonna happen for me!! Haha. So I’ll stick with Zzounds whenever I can. Could be this Fri. Maybe. We’ll see.
rsmith601
Commercial User
- Apr 14, 2009
- 4,461
- 8,356
- Disclosures
- CEO and Co-Founder, Source Audio
People here and on TGP wax endlessly about the tone differences between one pedal and the next. The tone differences between the oscillators on the SY-X and the C4 are really different. In our studies of each, this is really high up on the importance list of what makes they really different.As somebody who used to own an SY300 and now owns a C4, I'd say it's a decently unbiased breakdown of the differences.
It does leave off a few things. For example, the SY300 can be used as a USB audio interface, which is cool, but certainly a relatively minor "bell and whistle" type thing. (I'd consider that a major feature in the realm of general-purpose DI and/or amp sim and/or multi-fx type pedals, but not for this type of pedal). And on the flip side, it doesn't address potential benefits of the overall Source Audio ecosystem working together (I'm not into that scene, but many others are, and it's obviously a huge perk to them).
I would disagree with is the idea that they don't overlap much. I mean...I can certainly see that they would each have sounds you couldn't get out of the other. BUT...they're obviously filling the same role, and I can't see the average person ever putting both on the same board.
The biggest differences to me are probably the price, size, and programming. But again, it's all trade-offs. The programmability of the SY300 requires the bigger size; it just isn't humanly possible to do it in a small pedal. It mandates a decent-sized screen which necessitates a price increase, both for the hardware itself and the development behind it. Etc. Trade-offs, pros and cons.
Sound-wise, they have different strengths and weaknesses. A big question any potential purchaser has to ask is, do I want to have a pedal that can create cool synth sounds? Or do I have a very specific sound in mind that I want to recreate with the pedal? The answer to that question is important. If you have a specific song with a specific synth sound you're trying to recreate, I am inclined to believe that the C4 is probably more likely to get you there in most cases.
And really, I think the most important thing is the price. For many people, synths are a fringe interest. Like, "it would be cool, but I'd only use it on a handful of songs so I'm not going to dump a huge amount of money for it." And the pedals that are affordable are...gimmicky or cheesy. That's just now starting to change. And I think, hands-down, the C4 is the best sub-$300 synth pedal currently available.
To me, it isn't the C4 vs the SY300. That's unfair to both parties, in my opinion. The SY300 blows the C4 away in terms of ease of use. But the C4 blows away the SY300 in terms of price. They aren't really comparable.
So it's really the C4 against the SY1, I think. And that pedal isn't out quite yet. And then, it's a different set of trade-offs. Very close in price, similar size, deeper customization for the C4 but you need an app, etc etc. That's been beat to death I think and the SY1 isn't even out yet.
I was using the desktop editor last night. Will be playing with the mobile in the next few days.
Wanna become more familiar with the mobile because it seems really useful for making adjustments at a gig, practice, etc. on the fly
Lets say your library is open and you have a list of presets there. Swipe left on any preset and you get a nice little menu of options, including "BURN" This will allow you to add any preset from your library to your pedal. This also works when browsing the "community" presets. This applies to the mobile, by the way.
Like your screen name, too
Thanks!
I was using the desktop editor so I will certainly try this with the mobile.
Is the functionality of the mobile the same as the desktop. Are there any limitations on one as opposed to another?
rsmith601
Commercial User
- Apr 14, 2009
- 4,461
- 8,356
- Disclosures
- CEO and Co-Founder, Source Audio
Yes, there is one HUGE difference. The Desktop knobs are always a direct reflection of what is going on INSIDE the pedal. i.e. there is 2 way communication. The Mobile, on the other hand, is sending commands to the pedal with no knowledge of where the pedal is at. i.e. there is only one way communication.
Otherwise, the app has some nice little touches that it has picked up over the development cycles. It is rather polished these days!
@rsmith601 Cannot thank you enough for how attentive you have been at answering questions for the community.
You are much appreciated!
You are much appreciated!
@ChubbyJerk Thanks a lot for all of your insight. The stuff that stood out to me is all purely subjective, you're right.
I'm very comfortable working with the desktop editor because I've spent a lot of time in Neuro tweeking tones on my Aftershock and setting up my computer doesn't add any time to my work flow. So far creating sounds has been fun and has been easy for me.
As a result I'm also not locked in to 6 presets. A computer is part of my workflow and gives me more preset slots than I could fill. The price was also important to me. A MIDI controller hasn't, and still isn't, a priority for me and does not add to the cost of the pedal. The MIDI setup I build is not solely for the C4, solely for the Aftershock, my reverb, or other devices. This is something I view as an independent expense, like adding an 8 channel looper or power supply to a board.
The footprint is important to me. I have a small board for a handful of reasons that aren't changing.
Those points spoke to me based on my circumstances and intended use.
I'm very comfortable working with the desktop editor because I've spent a lot of time in Neuro tweeking tones on my Aftershock and setting up my computer doesn't add any time to my work flow. So far creating sounds has been fun and has been easy for me.
As a result I'm also not locked in to 6 presets. A computer is part of my workflow and gives me more preset slots than I could fill. The price was also important to me. A MIDI controller hasn't, and still isn't, a priority for me and does not add to the cost of the pedal. The MIDI setup I build is not solely for the C4, solely for the Aftershock, my reverb, or other devices. This is something I view as an independent expense, like adding an 8 channel looper or power supply to a board.
The footprint is important to me. I have a small board for a handful of reasons that aren't changing.
Those points spoke to me based on my circumstances and intended use.
I know Tor since 2011 and I have reasons not to use it, but it’s a little off topic here. I also have reasons not to use free proxies.
Nevertheless, are you sure that Neuro Editor has ability to use an app-specific socks proxy (that very Tor)? I don’t recall it there.
rsmith601
Commercial User
- Apr 14, 2009
- 4,461
- 8,356
- Disclosures
- CEO and Co-Founder, Source Audio
You are welcome EST>>EYES. It does take a crazy amount of time and attention, but it allows the world of users/customers to flow into our company every day in a way that is kind of unprecedented. Particularly with a product like the C4, there is enormous benefit in having lots of varied customers sitting around the virtual design table. I am also grateful for so many of you who have taken the time to help us in such a polite and helpful manner. It is not always the way things go in discussion forums on the internet!!@rsmith601 Cannot thank you enough for how attentive you have been at answering questions for the community.
You are much appreciated!
Absolutely. A lot depends on individual preferences and use cases and existing gear and board space and budget and so on. And that's before you even get to the sounds.
I feel like I'm coming across as being anti-C4 or giving the impression that I prefer the SY300. Just to be clear, that isn't the case. I own a C4 and not an SY300, and I love it. But it isn't perfect and it doesn't beat the SY300 in every way possible. The C4 is, in my opinion, overall, subjectively, the better pedal. But there are buts...
I prefer the C4 overall, but the ability to program a preset straight from the pedal was great. but...the list of effects on the SY300 is better. but...I think SY300 was better at light and airy pad patches. Etc.
I need to go and dig in more and rebuild some of my old favorites as best I can. I had 3 I used a lot. A light, airy octave up reverb and light delay pad; a wubbly filtered square wave; a fake power chord. If I can create (or find) a patch for each of those, I'll be suitably happy. I'm sure those sounds are in there somewhere!
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