Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[rsmith601]

I'm a little confused on two points: are "PRE EFFECT LOOP" and "SIDE CHAIN" the same thing or different?

Secondly, might I ask what the logic is in making this a "hidden" routing option only accessible via preset?

Yes, a side chain is very different from a pre effect loop.

We create routing options for you all when you do not have the resources to create them for yourself. The Pre Effect Loop cannot be created via the editor. The side chain can be easily created by the editor. Jesse felt that having this as a routing mode would only complicate the development and not add much value. I you are a C4 user and you know about side chains, then it is a snap to use a preset to use it or even create it yourself.

All of our other previous pedals DO NOT expose you to the resources to create routing modes. Therefore, we needed to do that for you. The C4 is different.

 

[rsmith601]

A pre effect loop is for adding a pedal to your system that does not have midi. You can use the resources in the C4 to turn it on and off. We cannot do post effect loop, such as we have in other pedals.

Side chain is SPECIFICALLY for an envelope filter where you want to trigger the envelope off the dry and then send the wet to the filter. We supported this on the Manta, but only if you used the internal distortions. We support this internally on the C4 too. But, some folks want to use their own dirt. So we support this via a preset we offer or you can just do it yourself.

 

[moishelichtfuss]

By the way @rsmith601, big shoutout to your "ecosystem".

I got myself an Aftershock (second time) to check it out again and tried to remember the presets I made for it a couple years ago. Connected to the Neuro App, logged in and there they still were…all my presets from three years ago. Didn't remember that they were still synced with my account. Great stuff!

 

[gregmon79]

Yes, the little card does not cover everything we need to cover. We tried to make ALT mode really logical and easy to follow. Moving the toggle with or without ALT pushed should change red to green. It does not help that people with previous One Series pedals will get confused by this. Sometimes we try to offer too many modes and too many options...and it gets confusing. The manual, however, should be your guide. Printing them became an insane task. So many pages. Different version histories. different languages. We have thrown out thousands of manuals. The only way to resolve this is electronic. I will say one thing, I have a $1000 pixel phone. The user guides are terrible relative to the C4 manual. Google has thousands of people who are capable of creating a user guides, and they don't even bother!!!

I personally like the fact that I can print the manual out if I want/need to digitally rather than having it come in the box with the pedal. You'd have a huge box for just including the manual bringing costs up for everything. Totally not worth it. Plus, I usually just use my PDF reader on my phone and it stores anything it opens up in there. I printed the C4 manual though. At work......

 

[rsmith601]

By the way @rsmith601, big shoutout to your "ecosystem".

I got myself an Aftershock (second time) to check it out again and tried to remember the presets I made for it a couple years ago. Connected to the Neuro App, logged in and there they still were…all my presets from three years ago. Didn't remember that they were still synced with my account. Great stuff!

Had not thought of that! Cant do that with an analog pedal

 

[gregmon79]

A pre effect loop is for adding a pedal to your system that does not have midi. You can use the resources in the C4 to turn it on and off. We cannot do post effect loop, such as we have in other pedals.

Side chain is SPECIFICALLY for an envelope filter where you want to trigger the envelope off the dry and then send the wet to the filter. We supported this on the Manta, but only if you used the internal distortions. We support this internally on the C4 too. But, some folks want to use their own dirt. So we support this via a preset we offer or you can just do it yourself.

As much as I learn about this pedal, and the AS, I see posts like this and realize I still have so much to learn and experiment with! It’s awesome.

 

[Robertron]

I think I need to start experimenting with the FX loop. I'm gonna run a delay through it and see what's up.

 

[Adamixoye]

Yes, a side chain is very different from a pre effect loop.

We create routing options for you all when you do not have the resources to create them for yourself. The Pre Effect Loop cannot be created via the editor. The side chain can be easily created by the editor. Jesse felt that having this as a routing mode would only complicate the development and not add much value. I you are a C4 user and you know about side chains, then it is a snap to use a preset to use it or even create it yourself.

All of our other previous pedals DO NOT expose you to the resources to create routing modes. Therefore, we needed to do that for you. The C4 is different.

A pre effect loop is for adding a pedal to your system that does not have midi. You can use the resources in the C4 to turn it on and off. We cannot do post effect loop, such as we have in other pedals.

Side chain is SPECIFICALLY for an envelope filter where you want to trigger the envelope off the dry and then send the wet to the filter. We supported this on the Manta, but only if you used the internal distortions. We support this internally on the C4 too. But, some folks want to use their own dirt. So we support this via a preset we offer or you can just do it yourself.

I'll be honest, I haven't looked at the editor, maybe I should, but it sounds like in both cases (pre-FX loop and side chain) you can do everything from the editing options in the editor even if there is not a specific "routing" option, do I understand that correctly? Is the preset that you're referring to just a helpful reference point or do you NEED to start with that preset and modify it?

With respect to the pre-FX loop, what options are available? Will the loop only be engaged when the rest of the pedal is on, is that how it works? Or can you turn the "loop" on and off independently from the rest of the C4?

 

[Adamixoye]

Also, completely different SA-but-non-C4 question, has anyone used pedal toppers (like Barefoot Buttons) on your pedals? The Barefoot ones are so expensive, so I tried some off-brand ones but they do not seem to fit the switches on my Nemesis. I busted out my calipers and it looks some some of my pedals (Empress, Eventide, Digitech, etc.) have 3/8" diameter switches while others (Nemesis, Darkglass, FI, etc.) have 7/16" switches. I know Barefoot offers the "big bore" models but I wasn't wondering if anyone knows of cheaper alternatives that fit the bigger diameters.

 

[Robertron]

Are those the little Stomp covers I see on people's pedals? I need some of those too.

 

[Adamixoye]

Are those the little Stomp covers I see on people's pedals? I need some of those too.

Yeah, I ordered these but they do not fit the Nemesis:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MHQSF22/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A1CYXBD3X7IJ4I&psc=1

 

[Chace90]

Yeah, I ordered these but they do not fit the Nemesis:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MHQSF22/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A1CYXBD3X7IJ4I&psc=1

I have a couple of the Barefoot Buttons in both sizes. When I get a chance, I'll see which size fits on my C4. Assuming all the newer SA pedals have the same size switch... I know the pedals like the Manta seem to have a bit wider switches.

 

[BurningSkies]

Yes, the little card does not cover everything we need to cover. We tried to make ALT mode really logical and easy to follow. Moving the toggle with or without ALT pushed should change red to green. It does not help that people with previous One Series pedals will get confused by this. Sometimes we try to offer too many modes and too many options...and it gets confusing. The manual, however, should be your guide. Printing them became an insane task. So many pages. Different version histories. different languages. We have thrown out thousands of manuals. The only way to resolve this is electronic. I will say one thing, I have a $1000 pixel phone. The user guides are terrible relative to the C4 manual. Google has thousands of people who are capable of creating a user guides, and they don't even bother!!!

Yep. Seen. I honestly love the fact that I can access manuals to many pedals through online PDF these days. It often helps me decide how usable the pedal is in a live situation, whether it will meet my needs and/or what I'm up against in assimilating the process of programming it or patches...this has become way more important in the last 5 or so years as so many pedals have 'operating systems' of some sophistication and complexity. I tend to read on line then print once I've ordered so I can be up to speed once it shows up. Then it's great to have a side-by-side when you sit down with the pedal and editor for the first time. Often, when I go back to work on patches for my pedal board I need to reference the manuals again since I have to program the MIDI devices that will control a few pedals then also the pedals themselves and I'm never ever going to remember the divergent processes or individual PC and CC codes.

Also, completely different SA-but-non-C4 question, has anyone used pedal toppers (like Barefoot Buttons) on your pedals? The Barefoot ones are so expensive, so I tried some off-brand ones but they do not seem to fit the switches on my Nemesis. I busted out my calipers and it looks some some of my pedals (Empress, Eventide, Digitech, etc.) have 3/8" diameter switches while others (Nemesis, Darkglass, FI, etc.) have 7/16" switches. I know Barefoot offers the "big bore" models but I wasn't wondering if anyone knows of cheaper alternatives that fit the bigger diameters.

Yeah, it's all over the board. Some pedals have a larger diameter button and some have taller or shorter button height. Sometimes you can insert a few washers to raise a button topper when needed but the diameter issue will remain. IIRC I couldn't fit buttons on my Strymon pedals or a few of the other non-rank-and-file type pedals I have.

 

[Adamixoye]

I have a couple of the Barefoot Buttons in both sizes. When I get a chance, I'll see which size fits on my C4. Assuming all the newer SA pedals have the same size switch... I know the pedals like the Manta seem to have a bit wider switches.

It looked like my Aftershock might be smaller than my Nemesis, but I didn't check just yet...getting something to fit the Nemesis is a higher priority.

 

[gregmon79]

Are those the little Stomp covers I see on people's pedals? I need some of those too.

Yeah mine are Barefoot Buttons. I most likely won't ever order them again unless I want to spend some "spare" money haha don't get me wrong, they are awesome! But they are also expensive. But they really do and can come on handy with some pedals that are in certain areas on your board. I'm pretty sure the "normal" or "regular" sized buttons will fit the SA pedals. I can double check when I get home. But I think I only got two different sizes, one for the regular style switches and ones for the dome soft switch types.

Barefoot Buttons – Guitar Pedal Buttons Easy On Your Feet

You can find them in a lot of places now these days. They really blew up over the last year or two.

 

[DrMole]

Not a Sorcerer but humbly submit as an apprentice.
This, DG B7K ultra, GK MB212 V2 combo
Will see you all in a year when I hopefully have it all sorted.

The level of instigation to buy on TB is both wonderful and horrific. There is never a "Good Angel" on one shoulder begging you to think of the mortgage and children.

The GK and Combo club folks: Buy
The Ibanez/Soundgear folks: Buy
The Darkglass Folks: Buy, and Buy 3 more.

I suspect and expect only support to increase my quiver of SA pedals.

So,
What do I need next? (Also have a "Blue" compressor, repurposed from guitar)
Will just accept that this Rabbit Hole is nearly infinite and enjoy the ride

 

[benevan]

It looked like my Aftershock might be smaller than my Nemesis, but I didn't check just yet...getting something to fit the Nemesis is a higher priority.

The Aftershock uses 10mm diameter switch which is generally the most common size and the size of most of the lower cost buttons including the Mooers and the cheap ones available on amazon. The standard Barefoot button is also 10mm but as was stated they do offer the big bore 11mm size as well as the smaller 9mm size for use on things like the H9. The Nemesis and Ventris (and the SB2 pedals) need the big bore as they are 11mm.

I did a “shoot out” so to speak a few months back on TGP comparing some of these buttons. Invalid Link Removed
There is a fellow TBer that makes 3D printed button toppers to order with several diameters available at a very reasonable price.

Edit: The TBer that makes button toppers is @DDXdesign, product is bullseye buttons.
Link Removed

 

[Robertron]

View attachment 3507237 Not a Sorcerer but humbly submit as an apprentice.
This, DG B7K ultra, GK MB212 V2 combo
Will see you all in a year when I hopefully have it all sorted.

The level of instigation to buy on TB is both wonderful and horrific. There is never a "Good Angel" on one shoulder begging you to think of the mortgage and children.

The GK and Combo club folks: Buy
The Ibanez/Soundgear folks: Buy
The Darkglass Folks: Buy, and Buy 3 more.

I suspect and expect only support to increase my quiver of SA pedals.

So,
What do I need next? (Also have a "Blue" compressor, repurposed from guitar)
Will just accept that this Rabbit Hole is nearly infinite and enjoy the ride

one of us
You also need an SA Hub and C4 Synth. Maybe a MIDI controller? What's your reverb and delay section looking like? We have suggestions for that too...
one of us
one of us

 

[Adamixoye]

The Aftershock uses 10mm diameter switch which is generally the most common size and the size of most of the lower cost buttons including the Mooers and the cheap ones available on amazon. The standard Barefoot button is also 10mm but as was stated they do offer the big bore 11mm size as well as the smaller 9mm size for use on things like the H9. The Nemesis and Ventris (and the SB2 pedals) need the big bore as they are 11mm.

I did a “shoot out” so to speak a few months back on TGP comparing some of these buttons. Invalid Link Removed
There is a fellow TBer that makes 3D printed button toppers to order with several diameters available at a very reasonable price.

Edit: The TBer that makes button toppers is @DDXdesign, product is bullseye buttons.
Link Removed

Thanks, that all checks out, especially that the Nemesis has a bigger switch than the Aftershock. I didn't notice that the H9 switch was smaller, the buttons fit and you just have to tighten the set screws more. However, the other issue there is that those switches are so low profile that they won't engage before the topper makes contact with the pedal. Could probably add a washer to make it work.

 

[BurningSkies]

View attachment 3507237 Not a Sorcerer but humbly submit as an apprentice.
This, DG B7K ultra, GK MB212 V2 combo
Will see you all in a year when I hopefully have it all sorted.

The level of instigation to buy on TB is both wonderful and horrific. There is never a "Good Angel" on one shoulder begging you to think of the mortgage and children.

The GK and Combo club folks: Buy
The Ibanez/Soundgear folks: Buy
The Darkglass Folks: Buy, and Buy 3 more.

I suspect and expect only support to increase my quiver of SA pedals.

So,
What do I need next? (Also have a "Blue" compressor, repurposed from guitar)
Will just accept that this Rabbit Hole is nearly infinite and enjoy the ride

Yeah, no mortgage or kids...So...

Incoming C4 & Hub. I guess they're currently pending restock nearly everywhere, though assuming estimates are correct, maybe mid-next week I'll have them in hand.