Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by gregmon79, Feb 19, 2014.


  1. Quatschmacher

    Quatschmacher

    May 16, 2007
    Hence why I said to drop SA a line about cables, they’ll point you in the right direction.
     
    DrMole likes this.
  2. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    SA guys, are there plans to enhance the capabilities of the Soleman switches in the direction of Morningstar? Multiple uses for the switches ? e.g. press, long, press, press and hold, release
    Thanks!
     
  3. rsmith601

    rsmith601

    Apr 14, 2009
    Boston, MA
    President, Source Audio
    Not anytime soon. We have a couple of really big projects in the works! :)
     
  4. monkeyfinger

    monkeyfinger Moderator Staff Member

    Hi all -

    I've been playing with my midi pedalboard which consists of a Morningstar MC-8, a Morningstar ML-5, a NeuroHub, an Ultrawave, a C-4, and a Collider. The UW and the C4 are connected to midi via the hub. The Collider is directly connected to midi. I have an expression pedal connected to the MC-8. I programmed the MC-8 to send midi expression to the Collider on a particular preset. I found that I can only control two parameters at a time using this method. If I add a third expression CC, it does not change the corresponding parameter. However, if I move the third CC to the first position, it responds to that CC change and the the one following. The last one is ignored. Is there a work-around for this?
     
  5. I believe the collider has difficulties handling CCs received too quickly, as I have heard a few people with similar issues. Even for simple presets on the MC8 it’s common to require a delay in between CCs to have them all registered. I am not sure there is anything you can do when it comes to using an expression pedal as I don’t think adding a delay will work there. I don’t have a collider myself so I can’t test, but perhaps you can try connecting the Collider through the Neuro Hub instead? You can also set up the parameters you’d like to change in the Collider preset itself under “External Control”, and just send the expression CC. That should allow you to change 3 parameters at the same time.
     
  6. AlvarHanso

    AlvarHanso

    Jun 20, 2011


    Found an EDM/Indian drum loop in Studio One I liked and wanted to build something around it. Also, an excuse to tune up and play my guitar, and see how it does with the new pedals. Found some nice Gated Phaser in the Spectrum> a Room in the Collider> Zero Through Flanger on the Lunar for the guitar sound, with a lot of treble boost on the EQ2, with a channel of clean. The bass some Foldover Distortion on the Aftershock> EQ2 for HPF and EQ> Ultrawave for compressor> Spectrum Thrust factory preset> Collider Oil Can> Room> Lunar 6 Stage Phaser. Just did a clean boost on the EQ2 for 2nd bass track. A bit of reverb on everything in mixdown.

    I'm working an all Source Audio ecosystem now, and learning the ropes. But really loving the ability to sculpt sounds with steady volumes and mixes across everything. I wish I had saved the scene for the bass sound here, like the thick envelope. Oh well, as Chuck Berry said, "C'est la vie." Gonna play some more now. I really need to plug in the Dual Expression Pedal and shake things up a bit...

    Not quite current pic. as I moved the Aftershock to the front so it has the 2nd channel as clean out (modified my presets to keep it clean), then the EQ2, but close enough.

    IMG_20210417_213014_376.jpg
     
  7. Adamixoye

    Adamixoye A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?

    Apr 9, 2012
    Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
    Can't speak to the Collider but I've had issues with the Nemesis and Hub getting "overloaded" with MIDI messages.
     
    Derek Williams likes this.
  8. monkeyfinger

    monkeyfinger Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks for the feedback. So I mapped CC 0 to 'Remote Expression' in the Collider midi map. Then I enabled external control, and set the source to expression on all three parameters. I selected the three parameters I want to control and their ranges. I then programmed the Morningstar to send CC 0, from 0-127. I works like a charm. Much easier to set up this way too. Thanks again.
     
  9. I haven't had a chance to truly dig into the Ultrawave yet! And more coolness coming! Jeez... Is the Source Audio team invested in the coffee industry or something? Do you guys ever sleep? LOL

    5sg.
     
    LowWay likes this.
  10. rsmith601

    rsmith601

    Apr 14, 2009
    Boston, MA
    President, Source Audio
    Innovation is thrilling!!!
     
    muggsy, xI Jonathan Ix, GMC and 3 others like this.
  11. LowWay

    LowWay It’s got 4 strings ‘cause they’re bigger! Supporting Member

    Dec 16, 2009
    W Mass
    My bank account just called and said it didn't like the sound of that.
     
  12. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    Proper order of midi devices in chain.

    Controller, Hub, HX, EQ2, FI

    Hub talks TRRS TO C4. I would like it to also talk to the Eq2 on midi ch 4. Doesn't seem to be passing PC and CC along though. EQ2 does recognize midi on the 5 pin. So trying to cover the bases while debugging.

    Thx! Mal
     
  13. Gibs210

    Gibs210 Commercial User

    Aug 31, 2019
    Part time Tech Support for Source Audio effects
    Eq2 should work via hub, you can’t send it PC messages over hub, but that’s what cc103/104 are for. Make sure that you have eq2 set to the proper midi channel and that it’s scanned into all your scenes and everything should recall properly.
     
  14. Adamixoye

    Adamixoye A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?

    Apr 9, 2012
    Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
    Is it true that the older One Series pedals (e.g., the Aftershock) cannot used with a USB host the way that the C4 and Ultra Wave can?

    I understand that on the older pedals you don't get presets stored on the pedals in the same way --- just the six presets in the two modes, and you need the Hub for more, while on the C4 / Ultra Wave there are 128 presets you can store on the pedal. But I'm curious about USB host mode for other MIDI communication.
     
  15. Gibs210

    Gibs210 Commercial User

    Aug 31, 2019
    Part time Tech Support for Source Audio effects
    No midi access to the presets. You can send midi ccs via usb and midi clock, but there’s no way to recal presets via usb midi on the older pedals.
     
  16. Adamixoye

    Adamixoye A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?

    Apr 9, 2012
    Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
    But, hypothetically, within those limitations, some sort of USB host would still do those things?
     
  17. GMC

    GMC

    Jan 1, 2006
    Wiltshire, UK
    Not that I am aware of. My EQ2 is controlled directly via midi. In my case a Boss ES-5. All the other Source Audio devices that I use are controlled by my ES-5 via a Source Audio Neuro Hub. My UltraWave and C4 receive midi commands via the Neuro Hub, but I don't bother with scenes with these two devices. I use the Hub to relay midi from my ES-5 to the pedal's internal patches (midi PC change). If I want to call up a patch on my C4 or Ultrawave, I send a Midi PC change command to the pedal and the hub passes this on really well and it's as if the two pedals were directly controlled from my ES-5 via midi. The same system also works for Expression via CC midi.
    My Lunar and Aftershock are both older One Series models and this approach doesn't fully work the same.
    Both my Lunar and Aftershock are connected and controlled by the Neuro Hub. However, these two devices do not have Midi PC capabilities. So I can't send patch change over midi to either device. It's a limitation of the device and it's firmware. It's by design and can't be easily retro fixed. These two devices are mature products and can't be re-coded without a large risk of breaking all of the current settings / patches that are on the device and on the community cloud.
    You can select the model on both devices, just not the 6 pre-sets / patch. So I can use midi to change / choose which modulation model on my Lunar and which distortion model is used on the currently selected patch. But none of the other settings are touched. Not all of these settings can be controlled via Midi, but most can. However, sending that amount of Midi commands is a slow and cumbersome way of changing a patch on either device.
    The way that I use extended patches on my Aftershock and Lunar (beyond the 6 internal) is to utilise the Scene options on the hub. The hub has 128 patch memory that can be spread across all SA pedals attached to it, up to a max of 6. Before I had my Lunar, I used the Hub Scenes purely to service my Aftershock. When I got my Lunar, I had to rethink how I was going to use my hub. I have 8 sounds that I regularly use on my Lunar. So I set up the 6 internal pre-sets with my top 6 most used. I then copied these over to the Hub (not and easy task) and reserved patches over No#40 to be for the Lunar. My 1-6 from my Lunar are loaded as 41-86 on my hub. 47 and 48 are my other two patches that I like to use. This means that I can access my top 6 from either the device or the hub. My ES-5 calls up the Scene via the Hub and I have the other patches are available via the device 3 ways switch in Green or red mode.
    My Aftershock is configured in a similar way with my hub. Scene (Patch) 1-6 on the hub is identical to my 6 internal patches on my Aftershock. I currently have 37 Aftershock Scenes loaded on my hub. Most of these Scenes are dedicated Aftershock Scenes. Interestingly, If I call up say Scene 12 and then Scene 47 from my ES-5, the two scenes don't over write each other. So both scenes effectively become live (calling up a Scene that just uses the Aftershock, doesn't over right the Luna settings and vice versa).
    4 of these Scenes are very specific dirt used with an OC-2 patch on my C4. These 4 scenes also have Lunar / Modulation patches in the same Scene. So these 4 scenes control settings and patches for both pedals at the same time. I have 2 Scenes that have Aftershock, Lunar, Ultrawave and C4 patches loaded. So I can call up one Neuro hub scene and it calls up 4 patches on 4 different devices.
    This system is really flexible but requires a bit of thought and configuration to get working correctly. I can call up any of the internal 128 pre-set patches stored in my C4, Eq2 and Ultrawave via midi. Each device also has it's own 6 internal pre-sets I can easily change manually. My EQ2 has 8 internal patches. My Aftershock has 37 patches loaded as Scenes in my Neuro hub and can be changed via midi. My Lunar as 8 patches loaded as Scenes that can also be changed via midi, I've also got four Scenes that load both Aftershock and Lunar patches.
    When I had my Neuro Hub only controlling my Aftershock, life was a bit simpler. I used the hub as a way of added 128 patches to my Aftershock. When I integrated my Lunar into my board I did consider getting a 2nd Hub (on it's own midi channel) to add 128 patches on to the Lunar. This is a very viable option and it works well. The hubs are fairly cheap, small and easy to power. However, I soon realised that my Modulation patch needs were actually quite small (although essential). I find the max 6 internal patches a bit limiting on the Lunar (strangely less of an issue with the Aftershock...go figure). But I find that I only need less than 10 different modulation patches. I think that modulation patches are more varied in sound and application but there's less of them. Where as Dirt (on bass) is less varied in it's sounds but more plentiful in type. I can get by with less dirt patches than I can with modulation. I have a UniVibe, 2 phasers, a Leslie cab, 3 Chorus and a Flanger set as presets. I just don't use any more than that (but I can if I want to). A univibe sound wont cut it on a patch / sound that needs a gentle Quad Chorus. Where as with Dirt, I have way more options in terms of dirt models...but when applying dirt to stacked effects; one light overdrive is very similar to many others if I tweek the knobs a bit.
    So to answer your question...no I don't think you can add a USB midi controller directly to your Aftershock and change your Aftershock patches. You can get it to change it's dirt model via midi (but retain all the same patch settings). It's easier to plumb in a Neuro Hub and use it's Scene array to add 128 patches to the Aftershock's work flow. But you'll need a midi controller and a Hub. You could then use your hub to control other SA pedals...or have one hub per SA device. It's up to you how complicated / simple you want to make it, which is one of the great advantages of the Source Audio Eco-System: it can be super easy...or very very deep dive if you want to.
     
    AlvarHanso and DrMole like this.
  18. rsmith601

    rsmith601

    Apr 14, 2009
    Boston, MA
    President, Source Audio
    All the One Series pedals are USB MIDI compliant. Plug them into a computer and a DAW will recognize them. They will respond to MIDI CC. Therefore, I would say yes to USB host. Agreed, @Gibs210 ?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  19. Adamixoye

    Adamixoye A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?

    Apr 9, 2012
    Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
    I think I may have asked this before, but I'm curious what sort of capabilities I would get by connecting a One Series pedal (in my case, currently Aftershock and C4 but possibly looking at Ultra Wave down the road) to one of these:
    WIDI Uhost - The 3-in-1 MIDI USB Solution over Bluetooth, by CME

    These are basically connection devices, they don't provide the MIDI commands, that comes from somewhere else (in my case, MIDI Designer on iOS).

    I've successfully used some of the other CME WIDI devices in my setup. I'm just trying to wrap my mind about what might be possible.
     
    GMC and Farrin D like this.
  20. rsmith601

    rsmith601

    Apr 14, 2009
    Boston, MA
    President, Source Audio
    I believe @Gibs210 has experimented with these devices.
     
    GMC likes this.
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Jun 22, 2021

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