Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[ceetee]

I came to seek knowledge in the sorcerers' lair...

could i replace all of this (safe the SLO) with an ultra wave?

 

[Hendricks97]

I came to seek knowledge in the sorcerers' lair...

could i replace all of this (safe the SLO) with an ultra wave?

View attachment 4719968

I initially just replaced that same compressor with the Ultrawave, but the more I learn about it, the more I’m using it’s other capabilities

 

[jam.majors]

I came to seek knowledge in the sorcerers' lair...

could i replace all of this (safe the SLO) with an ultra wave?

View attachment 4719968

It’s certainly a possibility. One thing I found out is that switching presets via midi is not instantaneous. So mid-song you have to pick your moment. (It’s slower than my C4, for comparison.)

 

[Mr. voodoobass]

I came to seek knowledge in the sorcerers' lair...

could i replace all of this (safe the SLO) with an ultra wave?

View attachment 4719968

If you add a midi controller and setup your presets to morph between two settings. As in clean to dirt. You can get instant switching and pretty much remove all of above. And I would have still kept the olympic.
Most of the time I stay between 3 presets on the ultrawave for my main tones.
1 clean and heavily compressed- dark dub setting
2 clean and natural compression- distortion
3 pushed and slightly hairy amp tone- distortion

 

[ceetee]

I initially just replaced that same compressor with the Ultrawave, but the more I learn about it, the more I’m using it’s other capabilities

Thanks! I'm leaning towards keeping the compressor. I like the different modes. In the long run, I guess I'll need another LS-2 in order to compare...

It’s certainly a possibility. One thing I found out is that switching presets via midi is not instantaneous. So mid-song you have to pick your moment. (It’s slower than my C4, for comparison.)

Thanks for pointing that out! Need to look into this.

If you add a midi controller and setup your presets to morph between two settings. As in clean to dirt. You can get instant switching and pretty much remove all of above. And I would have still kept the olympic.
Most of the time I stay between 3 presets on the ultrawave for my main tones.
1 clean and heavily compressed- dark dub setting
2 clean and natural compression- distortion
3 pushed and slightly hairy amp tone- distortion

A midi controller would definetly be added. Need to dive into this. Never used midi before but the possibilities seem way too attractive. Yes, the Olympic will stay! Thanks!

 

[GMC]

I came to seek knowledge in the sorcerers' lair...

could i replace all of this (safe the SLO) with an ultra wave?

View attachment 4719968

Easily, the only think you would functionally miss is the DI on the Olympus. However, gain wise, the Ultrawave could probably match the range of output gain you get from the Olympus. Your issue is one of control, the Ultrawave does only have 4 knobs to play with. You have two pre-set alt controls, so that takes the controls to six. However, these aren't assignable and are pre-set to bass and Mids. You also have expression control, so you can map up to three different functions to the expression input. Which is a really nice extra control feature.

It’s certainly a possibility. One thing I found out is that switching presets via midi is not instantaneous. So mid-song you have to pick your moment. (It’s slower than my C4, for comparison.)

That really depends on your midi controller and midi Chain. My Boss ES-5 seems to be very fast at sending patch changes over CC or PC (depending on the pedal). My Source Audio gear seems to respond to patch switching via midi quite fast. Certainly faster than my Eventide H9's (or the Strymon Mobius) and about the same response time for my EHX hog 2. The SA gear can seem to take longer if you are patch switching and bypassing / engaging the pedal at the same time. I think this is because in full bypass mode, there's a physical relay that takes time to clunk in / out. In fact you can hear it clearly if you send a Midi enable / disable command.
Also with complex midi Controller patches, each device gets sent it's midi patch details one after the other. If your target pedal is the 6th pedal on the list to receive it's midi data, it might appear to respond slower in comparison to the 1st device on the list. This is where the Neuro Hub is quite sweet, it seems to be able to talk to all 5 devices in parallel once it's received the midi data from the Midi Controller. So calling up a single scene with 5 pedals will be a lot quicker than calling up 5 attached pedals individually. It's also helpful to have your hub set to Channel 1, I tend to dial in my hub first.
With my Boss ES-5, I have 5 different Hub Scenes which align to my patches 1-5 on my ES-5. It makes the Midi programming fast and quite simple.
patch 1: General landing patch. A bit of optional light reverb or tuner. My main use for this patch is for a one button board mute.
patch 2: My Dirt centric patch, pressing the patch button switches between my Ultrawave and Aftershock. Expression controls dirt functions.
Patch 3: My Big PAD patch
Patch 4: My OC-2 centric patch. The scene sets up my C4 patch, Ultrawave dirt, Atlas compressor, Lunar, and Spectrum Filter. So that's all 5 SA pedals attached to my hub, called up in one specific scene.
Patch 5: my general Church patch. This has an optional light OD on my Ultrawave, an optional Double Bass patch on my C4, A nice light phaser on my Lunar, optional reverb or delay too. All of these are patched in as bypass. So I can click them on as I need them as individual effects.
I don't know if my approach maps in a similar way on your Morning Star Controller.

 

[ceetee]

Easily, the only think you would functionally miss is the DI on the Olympus. However, gain wise, the Ultrawave could probably match the range of output gain you get from the Olympus. Your issue is one of control, the Ultrawave does only have 4 knobs to play with. You have two pre-set alt controls, so that takes the controls to six. However, these aren't assignable and are pre-set to bass and Mids. You also have expression control, so you can map up to three different functions to the expression input. Which is a really nice extra control feature.



That really depends on your midi controller and midi Chain. My Boss ES-5 seems to be very fast at sending patch changes over CC or PC (depending on the pedal). My Source Audio gear seems to respond to patch switching via midi quite fast. Certainly faster than my Eventide H9's (or the Strymon Mobius) and about the same response time for my EHX hog 2. The SA gear can seem to take longer if you are patch switching and bypassing / engaging the pedal at the same time. I think this is because in full bypass mode, there's a physical relay that takes time to clunk in / out. In fact you can hear it clearly if you send a Midi enable / disable command.
Also with complex midi Controller patches, each device gets sent it's midi patch details one after the other. If your target pedal is the 6th pedal on the list to receive it's midi data, it might appear to respond slower in comparison to the 1st device on the list. This is where the Neuro Hub is quite sweet, it seems to be able to talk to all 5 devices in parallel once it's received the midi data from the Midi Controller. So calling up a single scene with 5 pedals will be a lot quicker than calling up 5 attached pedals individually. It's also helpful to have your hub set to Channel 1, I tend to dial in my hub first.
With my Boss ES-5, I have 5 different Hub Scenes which align to my patches 1-5 on my ES-5. It makes the Midi programming fast and quite simple.
patch 1: General landing patch. A bit of optional light reverb or tuner. My main use for this patch is for a one button board mute.
patch 2: My Dirt centric patch, pressing the patch button switches between my Ultrawave and Aftershock. Expression controls dirt functions.
Patch 3: My Big PAD patch
Patch 4: My OC-2 centric patch. The scene sets up my C4 patch, Ultrawave dirt, Atlas compressor, Lunar, and Spectrum Filter. So that's all 5 SA pedals attached to my hub, called up in one specific scene.
Patch 5: my general Church patch. This has an optional light OD on my Ultrawave, an optional Double Bass patch on my C4, A nice light phaser on my Lunar, optional reverb or delay too. All of these are patched in as bypass. So I can click them on as I need them as individual effects.
I don't know if my approach maps in a similar way on your Morning Star Controller.

Thanks for all that food for thought!
The SLO would quite certainly stay. I'm using an active monitor to play in my livingroom/homeoffice. Everyone on TB is entitled to have a laugh at my setup.
I def have to dive in the ultrawaves interaction between knobs and presets. Amongst other topics. The xp-ability does sound very nice. Need to do more research on that pedal.

Choosing the right controller is another deep-dive in front of me. The ES-5 looks great. Just a little overkill in my case. I'd like to stick to my boardsize. I love that I can fit my board in my desk drawer all hooked up and just take my bass and switch on electricity if I feel like during work. I'm not that an accomplished player. I'd rather check out the smaller morningstar or dmc offers and do my research regarding setup and speed. At my level of competence, I'm perfectly fine with the sounds I can get out of my board right now. If I can get the sound out of one pedal, I'm perfectly happy to swap 4 pedals for one plus a controller tho. I do count on getting better and incorporating other stuff when I can put it to work and feed it.

 

[Laklandfan]

I just saw a very interesting video showing a source audio pedal being loaded with the engines from different pedals via the nuero app. I was hoping to get clarification from more experienced users, My takeaway is that a pedal like the Gemini or lunar could be programmed to do the job of the other and the toggle switch could jump between them. I don’t use multiple modulation effects at once, so in theory I could consolidate up to 3 effects into one SA pedal? If this is true, when swapping between engines do the knobs remap themselves and are useable in a live moment or are knob settings locked in the engine?

 

[bassbrad]

I just saw a very interesting video showing a source audio pedal being loaded with the engines from different pedals via the nuero app. I was hoping to get clarification from more experienced users, My takeaway is that a pedal like the Gemini or lunar could be programmed to do the job of the other and the toggle switch could jump between them. I don’t use multiple modulation effects at once, so in theory I could consolidate up to 3 effects into one SA pedal? If this is true, when swapping between engines do the knobs remap themselves and are useable in a live moment or are knob settings locked in the engine?

Each of the One Series effects have 3 + 3 for a total of 6 sounds that can be accessed via toggle and holding the foot switch. Some of the effects pedals can share sounds as they use the same Neuro software. There is the distortion trio, modulation trio and the C4 Synth can run all the Spectrum sounds.
You will also have access to the extensive Neuro Cloud where users share sounds where you can also store and share your own sounds.

 

[GMC]

I just saw a very interesting video showing a source audio pedal being loaded with the engines from different pedals via the nuero app. I was hoping to get clarification from more experienced users, My takeaway is that a pedal like the Gemini or lunar could be programmed to do the job of the other and the toggle switch could jump between them. I don’t use multiple modulation effects at once, so in theory I could consolidate up to 3 effects into one SA pedal? If this is true, when swapping between engines do the knobs remap themselves and are useable in a live moment or are knob settings locked in the engine?

I use a Lunar for most of my Modulation patches. While the patches and engines for all three SA modulation pedals are cross-available, the knob functions are hard coded / baked in. So choose which one you like the controls the most. For me the Gemini has a mix control and for bass modulation I usually need max wetness. So I chose the Lunar, Resonance, Depth, shape and Speed as my 4 knobs. With the Aftershock, I was the mix control on Dirt pedals. it's useful if I have an octaver before the dirt and i want to bring a bit more of that sound back into the signal).

 

[jam.majors]

@GMC based on your notes above regarding MIDI stuff, I decided to take another look at my setup. Your comment that the changes on my UW could be as fast as the C4 was the main impetus! As this could help others, I'm sharing.

(For quick reference: DMC.micro PRO controlling neuro hub, with Aftershock (AS), C4, and Ultrawave (UW) attached.)

Where I was using the dmc.micro pro to just send the preset number to C4 and UW, I decided to step back and figure out how to make the neuro hub behave. So I have a non SA pedal on MIDI Ch 1, UW in 2, C4 in 3, and now Hub in 4.
When I tried using the HUB before I was having trouble making selections stick and would sometimes have the UW shutdown entirely. What I realize now is that I need to either use the Hub OR the DMC selection, but NOT BOTH AT ONCE. That's what was overwhelming the UW: I'd have the setting in my Hub AND in the dmc (sending the preset selection twice) resulting in "not good things".
So for a dmc preset now, I'll set my SA pedals to "Don't Change" and "Bypass", but have the HUB set to the desired preset and "Activate". Thus far things are working smoothly enough. Hopefully time will continue to prove this setup as "correct"!

Bonus: I did not realize before that one could make a preset in the hub that only affected a single pedal attached to the chain. So that's nice when I want to make sure everything is bypassed: set the AS up as bypassed and just have the C4 and UW bypassed in the dmc.

Now if anyone read through all of that and thought, "wait, that's not right", please for the love-of-God tell me so I can get it right!

 

[rsmith601]

@GMC based on your notes above regarding MIDI stuff, I decided to take another look at my setup. Your comment that the changes on my UW could be as fast as the C4 was the main impetus! As this could help others, I'm sharing.

(For quick reference: DMC.micro PRO controlling neuro hub, with Aftershock (AS), C4, and Ultrawave (UW) attached.)

Where I was using the dmc.micro pro to just send the preset number to C4 and UW, I decided to step back and figure out how to make the neuro hub behave. So I have a non SA pedal on MIDI Ch 1, UW in 2, C4 in 3, and now Hub in 4.
When I tried using the HUB before I was having trouble making selections stick and would sometimes have the UW shutdown entirely. What I realize now is that I need to either use the Hub OR the DMC selection, but NOT BOTH AT ONCE. That's what was overwhelming the UW: I'd have the setting in my Hub AND in the dmc (sending the preset selection twice) resulting in "not good things".
So for a dmc preset now, I'll set my SA pedals to "Don't Change" and "Bypass", but have the HUB set to the desired preset and "Activate". Thus far things are working smoothly enough. Hopefully time will continue to prove this setup as "correct"!

Bonus: I did not realize before that one could make a preset in the hub that only affected a single pedal attached to the chain. So that's nice when I want to make sure everything is bypassed: set the AS up as bypassed and just have the C4 and UW bypassed in the dmc.

Now if anyone read through all of that and thought, "wait, that's not right", please for the love-of-God tell me so I can get it right!

@Gibs210 good read!

 

[Rick Penrose]

@GMC based on your notes above regarding MIDI stuff, I decided to take another look at my setup. Your comment that the changes on my UW could be as fast as the C4 was the main impetus! As this could help others, I'm sharing.

(For quick reference: DMC.micro PRO controlling neuro hub, with Aftershock (AS), C4, and Ultrawave (UW) attached.)

Where I was using the dmc.micro pro to just send the preset number to C4 and UW, I decided to step back and figure out how to make the neuro hub behave. So I have a non SA pedal on MIDI Ch 1, UW in 2, C4 in 3, and now Hub in 4.
When I tried using the HUB before I was having trouble making selections stick and would sometimes have the UW shutdown entirely. What I realize now is that I need to either use the Hub OR the DMC selection, but NOT BOTH AT ONCE. That's what was overwhelming the UW: I'd have the setting in my Hub AND in the dmc (sending the preset selection twice) resulting in "not good things".
So for a dmc preset now, I'll set my SA pedals to "Don't Change" and "Bypass", but have the HUB set to the desired preset and "Activate". Thus far things are working smoothly enough. Hopefully time will continue to prove this setup as "correct"!

Bonus: I did not realize before that one could make a preset in the hub that only affected a single pedal attached to the chain. So that's nice when I want to make sure everything is bypassed: set the AS up as bypassed and just have the C4 and UW bypassed in the dmc.

Now if anyone read through all of that and thought, "wait, that's not right", please for the love-of-God tell me so I can get it right!

This is exactly my setup ( which I have not configured yet) micro.pro and two SA pedals. QQ...what is the advantage of having the dmc send any messages directly to the SA pedals (I.e. bypass, don’t change)? The hub should be able to handle it ...right? Understand that my knowledge is just from reading the manual so I could be way off in left field here. I also have an hx stomp in the mix and so am trying to figure out how to integrate that into everything as well.

 

[Gibs210]

This is exactly my setup ( which I have not configured yet) micro.pro and two SA pedals. QQ...what is the advantage of having the dmc send any messages directly to the SA pedals (I.e. bypass, don’t change)? The hub should be able to handle it ...right? Understand that my knowledge is just from reading the manual so I could be way off in left field here. I also have an hx stomp in the mix and so am trying to figure out how to integrate that into everything as well.

Yes, the hub can handle it all, the one thing that’s nice is that the dmc allows you to scroll through the individual presets of each pedal connected to the hub, with the exception of the older one series (standard dirts, modulations, and true spring). So with the exception of the ultrawave (hub points at presets on the ultrawave, since it’s too massive for the hub to handle, so hub just loads a ultrawave preset, plus bypass state, plus the 6 physical controls on ultrawave can be edited and stored on hub, it’s just all the backpage neuroeditor stuff that’s not accessible), you could have 128 hub scenes, and then 128 unique presets on each pedal (save ultrawave as mentioned). To be clear, hub scenes even save bypass state of each pedal in a scene, so you wouldn’t need to use the dmc to set if a pedal is on or off.

 

[Rick Penrose]

Yes, the hub can handle it all, the one thing that’s nice is that the dmc allows you to scroll through the individual presets of each pedal connected to the hub, with the exception of the older one series (standard dirts, modulations, and true spring). So with the exception of the ultrawave (hub points at presets on the ultrawave, since it’s too massive for the hub to handle, so hub just loads a ultrawave preset, plus bypass state, plus the 6 physical controls on ultrawave can be edited and stored on hub, it’s just all the backpage neuroeditor stuff that’s not accessible), you could have 128 hub scenes, and then 128 unique presets on each pedal (save ultrawave as mentioned). To be clear, hub scenes even save bypass state of each pedal in a scene, so you wouldn’t need to use the dmc to set if a pedal is on or off.

Thanks Gibs210...makes more sense. Any advice on how to integrate the hx stomp,with the dmc and hub?

 

[Gibs210]

Thanks Gibs210...makes more sense. Any advice on how to integrate the hx stomp,with the dmc and hub?

Never used the HX stomp so really don’t know how it will work with the stomp

 

[TOOL460002]

The upgrade in user interface from the Octavius Squeezer to the C4 is pretty drastic to say the least. I'd love to be able to cop the tones I want and sell the thing. First Sourae Audio product and probably not the last. Neat UI.

 

[Discount Bassy]

My Bass UltraWave showed up a couple of days ago. I am stoked to get to building the pedalboard and figuring out how to make it go. Many things to be unpacked and wired up. After moving in with my parents to provide care about six months ago, I've finally carved enough room in their house to begin setting up for music work again.

 

[Billyears IV]

Trying to avoid a separate MIDI Host box or the Neuro Hub if possible. I'm aware of the new thingy that Source Audio is putting out soon that will help solve this

Is anyone able to please elaborate on the 'thingy', as mentioned above?

Cheers

 

[NPappas]

Is anyone able to please elaborate on the 'thingy', as mentioned above?

Cheers

I'm not sure what they're referring to. The only MIDI-related thing we're currently working on is the Reflex expression controller 2.0 — perhaps it will have 1 or 2 more midi-related features I'm not aware of, but AFAIK it's a reflex interface with EXP pedal inputs instead of a built-in treadle.