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Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

#15,644
stubbsonic said:
I'm gonna guess this has been said a thousand times already, but Source Audio's next one-series pedal should be a pitch-shifter/harmonizer pedal. I already have my dream feature list already worked out in my head.
Click to expand...
I feel like the C4 can do a lot of that, though maybe it doesn’t do it the way you’re looking for. Are you thinking of something that doesn’t cover?
What kind of sounds are you wanting to make? Is there a similar pedal out there that leans in the sonic direction you wish to tread?
 
#15,645
jam.majors said:
I feel like the C4 can do a lot of that, though maybe it doesn’t do it the way you’re looking for. Are you thinking of something that doesn’t cover?
What kind of sounds are you wanting to make? Is there a similar pedal out there that leans in the sonic direction you wish to tread?
Click to expand...

I think all anyone really wants is an actual pitch shifting pedal. Every pedal out there is pitch shift + delay + tonesuck + indefinable modulation. What I think most of us want is pure shifting with zero effect on quality, which is probably impossible in real time.
 
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#15,646
stubbsonic said:
I'm gonna guess this has been said a thousand times already, but Source Audio's next one-series pedal should be a pitch-shifter/harmonizer pedal. I already have my dream feature list already worked out in my head.
Click to expand...

joshofbass said:
I think all anyone really wants is an actual pitch shifting pedal. Every pedal out there is pitch shift + delay + tonesuck + indefinable modulation. What I think most of us want is pure shifting with zero effect on quality, which is probably impossible in real time.
Click to expand...

Digitech Drop does it pretty well for guitar, less successful for bass, with minimal latency and mild-to-moderate effect on tone (depends on the amount of shift).

Eventide H90 has matched that or better, with more options, and they're using it in interesting ways (pitchshifting, synth, etc.).
 
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#15,647
Adamixoye said:
Digitech Drop does it pretty well for guitar, less successful for bass, with minimal latency and mild-to-moderate effect on tone (depends on the amount of shift).

Eventide H90 has matched that or better, with more options, and they're using it in interesting ways (pitchshifting, synth, etc.).
Click to expand...
Exactly why we need source audio. Less successful for bass has been the theme since my first whammy back in 1999
 
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#15,648
Quickie please.....

Does SA exp pedal work on BOTH:

- midi to SA pedals (via morningstar mc6 & neuro hub) on connection 'expression out 1'

- and a 3rd party pedal NOT set up for MIDI,
via connection 'expression out 2'?

Can't seem to get it to recognise 3rd party pedal.... Using trs cable on 'expression out 2' atm

Thanks!
 
#15,650
joshofbass said:
Exactly why we need source audio. Less successful for bass has been the theme since my first whammy back in 1999
Click to expand...
As far as I understand it, the reason it's less successful for bass is less about who is making it and more about the fundamental physical limitations of identifying low frequencies quickly.

Whether or not that is the case, I haven't tested the H90 a whole lot, but it appears to be an improvement over the Drop. These new algos are the ones I've been waiting literally 10 years for. I'm not sure how SA would surpass them without some leap in tech.
 
#15,651
joshofbass said:
Exactly why we need source audio. Less successful for bass has been the theme since my first whammy back in 1999
Click to expand...

Source Audio (with Bob Chidlaw) have in a few instances broken ground with their one-series pedals. The EQ2, Atlas, and Ventris pedals sort of blew the doors wide open for what can be gotten with EQ, compression, and reverb in smaller format pedals.

I have a C4, which is successful as a synth pedal that "celebrates" (?) a VERY digital sound (to my ear). It does have a pretty nice feature set for pitch shifting, but sonically, it wasn't very successful or ground-breaking, to my ear.

Adamixoye said:
As far as I understand it, the reason it's less successful for bass is less about who is making it and more about the fundamental physical limitations of identifying low frequencies quickly.
....
I'm not sure how SA would surpass them without some leap in tech.
Click to expand...

Exactly!! In other words, the tech for pitch-shifting is pretty weak across the industry. Though, it sounds like I need to check out pitch demos for the [edit:] H90 .

It is obviously a difficult puzzle to solve-- there's always the trade between tracking speed and sound quality, where the destructive impact of artifacts is across the board.

Which brings me to this "audience request". I can sort of imagine Bob Chidlaw and the rest of the SA team doing what they did with Ventris-- gathering data and feature requests from users; considering what's needed hardware-wise, and essentially rethinking things in ways that buck the industry-standard methods for how it has been or should be done.

Recently we saw polyphonic synthesis from standard (non-divided) pickups just appear (as if out of nowhere)-- not sure if it was an iOS app first, or a Boss gtr synth-- or some older product. Perhaps "spectral energy signatures" can be part of the process (?) (I'm in over my head).

Perhaps decent pitch-shifting is being studied in laboratories and is right around the corner.

I'd just rather see the "advanced versions" of this tech/pedal come from Source Audio, and not some other brand that releases it in a dumbed-down, watered-down, one-knob version.

That's my slogan for SA: "Not dumbed down."
 
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#15,654
stubbsonic said:
Source Audio (with Bob Chidlaw) have in a few instances broken ground with their one-series pedals. The EQ2, Atlas, and Ventris pedals sort of blew the doors wide open for what can be gotten with EQ, compression, and reverb in smaller format pedals.

I have a C4, which is successful as a synth pedal that "celebrates" (?) a VERY digital sound (to my ear). It does have a pretty nice feature set for pitch shifting, but sonically, it wasn't very successful or ground-breaking, to my ear.



Exactly!! In other words, the tech for pitch-shifting is pretty weak across the industry. Though, it sounds like I need to check out pitch demos for the [edit:] H90 .

It is obviously a difficult puzzle to solve-- there's always the trade between tracking speed and sound quality, where the destructive impact of artifacts is across the board.

Which brings me to this "audience request". I can sort of imagine Bob Chidlaw and the rest of the SA team doing what they did with Ventris-- gathering data and feature requests from users; considering what's needed hardware-wise, and essentially rethinking things in ways that buck the industry-standard methods for how it has been or should be done.

Recently we saw polyphonic synthesis from standard (non-divided) pickups just appear (as if out of nowhere)-- not sure if it was an iOS app first, or a Boss gtr synth-- or some older product. Perhaps "spectral energy signatures" can be part of the process (?) (I'm in over my head).

Perhaps decent pitch-shifting is being studied in laboratories and is right around the corner.

I'd just rather see the "advanced versions" of this tech/pedal come from Source Audio, and not some other brand that releases it in a dumbed-down, watered-down, one-knob version.

That's my slogan for SA: "Not dumbed down."
Click to expand...

I would think the original ehx hog or POG was the first polyphonic shifter of any sort, I think the big box POG came out in 2005? Though I feel like the whammy effect in my digitech rp300 I had as a kid was polyphonic too (it definitely had some odd artifacts to the way it felt, but I don’t remember the glitched out sounds that could happen in a monophonic shifter) and that came out in 2000, so it’s not super new tech, but it is one that isn’t quite at its full potential yet.

Roger has gone over our reasoning for not pursuing a full on polyphonic pitch shifter pedal yet. A big part is in the fact that the oscillator waves we’ve scoped on competitive products isn’t nearly as clean as the monophonic shifting on the c4 for example, and we want the same for a polyphonic effect as well. The current processing power just isn’t there yet to allow for this is the bottom line at this point.
 
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#15,655
Perfect timing. Here I was going around to look to see if the C4 or the spectrum can function as a pitch shifter in half step increments. Monophonic is phine for my needs.

forgive me if this is a very silly question. Mostly, I have just been enjoying the presets that people have put up on the cloud, and really haven’t taken out headlong dive into the editor. I’m just stuck playing with a band that is hooked on pitch shifting & there are times I don’t want to bring a five just for that. None of the pit shifters on the market have impressed me. The most popular one managed to make $5000 worth of gear sound like 50 bucks and it cost 250 to do that!
 
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#15,657
Gibs210 said:
I would think the original ehx hog or POG was the first polyphonic shifter of any sort, I think the big box POG came out in 2005? Though I feel like the whammy effect in my digitech rp300 I had as a kid was polyphonic too (it definitely had some odd artifacts to the way it felt, but I don’t remember the glitched out sounds that could happen in a monophonic shifter) and that came out in 2000, so it’s not super new tech, but it is one that isn’t quite at its full potential yet.

Roger has gone over our reasoning for not pursuing a full on polyphonic pitch shifter pedal yet. A big part is in the fact that the oscillator waves we’ve scoped on competitive products isn’t nearly as clean as the monophonic shifting on the c4 for example, and we want the same for a polyphonic effect as well. The current processing power just isn’t there yet to allow for this is the bottom line at this point.
Click to expand...
What difference is there, if any, between how you would approach a polyphonic pitchshifter that simply intends to transpose (like the Drop, or some settings of the Eventide Polyphony Algorithm) while preserving as much of the original tone and attack as possible vs. something polyphonic for the purpose of synthesized sounds like in the C4? I understood some of the previous discussion to be oriented around the latter, but maybe that is irrelevant.
 
#15,658
Luke the Fluke said:
In my head a 5 string playing the actual pitch you want is a lot simpler electronically and physically than trying to use a computer/pedal to change the pitch
Click to expand...
it is, until you’re in a really small setting, that it’s not practical to bring more than one bass to, you’d really rather use the 4 string, because you like the way it sounds better on most of the songs, and there are two count them two songs that need a low E flat.
 

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