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Speaker size characteristics
- Thread starter Alex
- Start date
Spectating > Participating
Here, Jimmy...I brought popcorn
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At loud volumes the 15 will have better tone too - the smaller drivers fart and crap out and that doesn’t produce a good tone Also note when I took the smokescreens, it depends, confusion and illusions out of the discussion by putting the full range bass guitar loudspeaker with Eminence designed reflex bass cabinet loaded with a 3015 no one has disputed that it won’t crush a particular 112 or 110. Anyway, I’ve already said my two cents (the same two cent) so I’m leaving this ancient thread (12-28-2005) lol. So carry on without me everyone and please play nice with each other so Chef doesn’t have to clean up a mess and close another thread.
- Feb 16, 2008
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- John K Custom Basses
it does exist. the first ones that come to mind for me are a JBL D120F (12") and a D130F (15") as well as their K120 and K130 speakers. their motor: voicecoil, suspension, spider, cone's paper composition and shape, aluminum dust cap basket, and magnet assembly are absolutely identical with the only difference being their diameter.
enjoy that shoe.
As long as they are within their limits, none of the speakers will have "better" tone.
I wouldn't think that a 3015 would sound any better in a cab designed for it than in a cab designed with the 3012 to get the same result. Once you start getting up to the limits of the drivers, then things start getting more apparent.
But then, a 2x10 or 2x12 I doubt would be crushed by the 1x15.
I wouldn't think that a 3015 would sound any better in a cab designed for it than in a cab designed with the 3012 to get the same result. Once you start getting up to the limits of the drivers, then things start getting more apparent.
But then, a 2x10 or 2x12 I doubt would be crushed by the 1x15.
it does exist. the first ones that come to mind for me are a JBL D120F (12") and a D130F (15") as well as their K120 and K130 speakers. their motor: voicecoil, suspension, spider, cone's paper composition and shape, aluminum dust cap basket, and magnet assembly are absolutely identical with the only difference being their diameter.
enjoy that shoe.
Well this is an excellent example of a place where one can generalize given speaker size. Given two speakers where "their motor: voicecoil, suspension, spider, cone's paper composition and shape, aluminum dust cap basket, and magnet assembly are absolutely identical" and changing only the speaker size will probably change the behavior of the speaker in a fairly predictable manner.
The 15 will be louder down low for one thing, same motor and a bigger cone means more displacement.
The driver will have a lower resonant frequency, same suspension and materials but a bigger driver means a heavier driver.
I could keep going and I don't even really know that much about this stuff...
If all the other things are the same it would have to be. Like, physics and all that.
If some of these folks are as clever as they want you to believe they can probably do a back of the envelope calculation and tell you by about how much.
I think some people are mistaking what making all the parameters the same means. Make the Ts parameters of which fs is an important one the same and it will sound the same in an equivalent box. Except for beaming which its size dependent.
The size is not the weight.
The size is not the weight.
Well that brings us back to principle that the fEARful cabs were designed with.(Oh Deer I did not just Open a can of worms by saying fEARful did I???) Cause even though though some have 12's and other have 15's there is NO... And I Mean NO Difference is sound besides the fact that one is louder then the other...they are both flat and if you were to cloes your eyes and listen you would never know!!! But i guess in the end it really dont matter how much science there is to back any of this up.... the doubters will all ways be doubters. Like the old saying goes.... " A person Forced against His Will Is of the Same Opinion Still" No matter what science there is to back it up. O well i leave it at that and not waste anymore breath....just going to wait for the fEARful hate mail to start poring in
... But really How long are we going to Beat this subject to death on here??? there is a new thread about this everyday and the same $h*t keeps getting tossed back and forth with no end is sight....
that's true but trivial.
if it measures the same of course it behaves the same. that's why we have those measurements. to describe how it behaves.
The relevant question is given two drivers that are significantly similar in most ways, what difference does the size make?
Say 10 and a 12 inch OEM drivers from ca. 1983 transistor Crate guitar combos. They will of course both sound awful, but come on. We both know that you can make some pretty good guesses about the differences in how they will sound awful.
Well that brings us back to principle that the fEARful cabs were designed with.(Oh Deer I did not just Open a can of worms by saying fEARful did I???) Cause even though though some have 12's and other have 15's there is NO... And I Mean NO Difference is sound besides the fact that one is louder then the other...they are both flat and if you were to cloes your eyes and listen you would never know!!! But i guess in the end it really dont matter how much science there is to back any of this up.... the doubters will all ways be doubters. Like the old saying goes.... " A person Forced against His Will Is of the Same Opinion Still" No matter what science there is to back it up. O well i leave it at that and not waste anymore breath....just going to wait for the fEARful hate mail to start poring in
The fEarful is a great design, indeed.
However, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop using my 2000S cab. Why? Cause it's what I like. I don't think the sound is caused by the drivers being 15"s, though. It's due to the configuration of the box and the parameters of the specific drivers involved.
- Feb 16, 2008
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- John K Custom Basses
i was talking about being mechanically identical, not having identical specs as a result, however, their specs are very similar.
For sure and no one said you should stop using it....I mean if something has the sound you like and want then i really dont care what size of speaker or cab it is....if you like it then that is all that matters!
I was just using the fEARful as an example of how 2 different size speakers can sound the same....It just goes to show what so many have been saying all along that speaker size has NOTHING to do with the sound!!! it all has to do with the design of the box. I use to think that to be punchy i needed 10's and lots of them!! well my 15/6/1 Blew that myth all to bits!! It is as punchy if not more so then my 410!! and there is NO MUD!!!...Infact going one step further i would say my 410 is more Quote "Muddy" then My 15!!!
- Feb 16, 2008
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- John K Custom Basses
here's how the K120 and K130 compare specs-wise:
MODEL FS QTS QMS -QES -VAS --EFF --PE --XMAX --RE --LE ----SD ----BI -MMS FLUX
K120 --50 0.2 ---4 --0.21 121.8 -6.9 --100 --1.52 ---6.3 -0.6 --0.053 --18 --35 --1.2
K130 --40 0.25 --4 --0.27 297.3 -6.7 --125 --0.76 ---6.3 -0.6 --0.090 --18 --60 --1.2
MODEL FS QTS QMS -QES -VAS --EFF --PE --XMAX --RE --LE ----SD ----BI -MMS FLUX
K120 --50 0.2 ---4 --0.21 121.8 -6.9 --100 --1.52 ---6.3 -0.6 --0.053 --18 --35 --1.2
K130 --40 0.25 --4 --0.27 297.3 -6.7 --125 --0.76 ---6.3 -0.6 --0.090 --18 --60 --1.2
well if you go down the line from 8" 10" 12" 15"
not always, but on average the FS seems to drop about 10hz for every 2 or so inches of cone size
likwise efficiency on average goes up with larger cone size, seems like it would be easier to make a smaller cone more efficient. due to size mainly weight.
anyways even more awesome, was everyone jumping on Bill trying to catch him on one of his famous quick and to the point generalizations.
I'd say he almost painted himself into a corner, but hah their was a window in that corner.
Right outside next to the warmed up grills waited to stew up some shoes. A shoe could taste good....I think.
Anyhoo as far as JBL using the same parts, seems like a good idea or at least cost efficient.
Even Eminence seems to use the same Magnets and most likely voice coil formers. for all the typical sizes 2.5 , 3 , 4"
I see alot of similar magnets weight wise too. Like 56 58 120 160 ounces for many models. and the price range tends to goe up with larger magnets. Makes sense your just paying for more raw material.
I always like the one where 15's and 18's are slower and 10's are punchy and fast. My gosh, so classic and annoying
not always, but on average the FS seems to drop about 10hz for every 2 or so inches of cone size
likwise efficiency on average goes up with larger cone size, seems like it would be easier to make a smaller cone more efficient. due to size mainly weight.
anyways even more awesome, was everyone jumping on Bill trying to catch him on one of his famous quick and to the point generalizations.
I'd say he almost painted himself into a corner, but hah their was a window in that corner.
Right outside next to the warmed up grills waited to stew up some shoes. A shoe could taste good....I think.
Anyhoo as far as JBL using the same parts, seems like a good idea or at least cost efficient.
Even Eminence seems to use the same Magnets and most likely voice coil formers. for all the typical sizes 2.5 , 3 , 4"
I see alot of similar magnets weight wise too. Like 56 58 120 160 ounces for many models. and the price range tends to goe up with larger magnets. Makes sense your just paying for more raw material.
I always like the one where 15's and 18's are slower and 10's are punchy and fast. My gosh, so classic and annoying
Indeed, that one is always face-palm inducing and poorly thought out. If speakers responded at noticeably different rates, it would be very very difficult to play music through them.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
There are many examples of this sort, but the specs aren't the same as specs are influenced by the mass of the cone and suspension details, not just the motor components. If the driver designer wanted to make the the necessary adjustments in the cones and suspensions to realize identical Qes and Qms et al. it could be done, but that's very unlikely. In the case of the JBLs the intended usage for each size was different, so there was no attempt to realize the same axial response from the different models in the series.it does exist. the first ones that come to mind for me are a JBL D120F (12") and a D130F (15") as well as their K120 and K130 speakers. their motor: voicecoil, suspension, spider, cone's paper composition and shape, aluminum dust cap basket, and magnet assembly are absolutely identical with the only difference being their diameter.
enjoy that shoe.
Every time these discussions come about you get people pulling fearful out their butt like it's some great new thing. It is great, it's not new. A bass player stood up straight and got his knuckles off the ground and built the system that should have been done a long time ago, using principles that have existed for 40 years. Is it clean, accurate loud and flat? Hell yes. Is it what everyone wants? Not likely. In my opinion it's the way to go, but all these bandwagoneers drive me nuts.
