Splurge on cab or amp?

[coy garcia]

imo...tone is 1. bass, 2. cab, 3.head. Not sure what your weak link is cause it doesn't say what your using now. As far as cabs go I think a top notch 1-15 is best and I add a 2-10 for larger venues.

 

[Tampabass]

Cab -- 9/10 people like me recommend Epifani -- I personally prefer the 112's for upright and BG.

 

[pappabass]

Cab again, amps are cheap. I got a backup peavey tour 450 that sounds dynamite for $110

 

[Blues Bass 2]

Cabs of course .

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Does it make more sense to splurge on the amp or the cab? Like, assuming you took out a second mortgage to buy a brand/model that would normally be considered celebrity musician level and out of reach, would it be wiser to spend that kind of money on the cab or the amp? (Assuming that your only priority is sonic quality)

That's a bit of a tough one and a problem I slowly worked through myself. Problem with getting a great cab is that if you play a crappy amp through it, you're going to sound like crap. On the other hand, a great amp can make a crappy cab sound OK. Real Answer is you need both.

When I finally started gigging again in 2006 after a long hiatus (toured in early 70's and all my pro-gear was stolen in 1976), I bought a GK Brat Pack because I'd used a GK before and had good results. And the price was right on this amp and cab. Was very excited because it was the only thing I could afford and that just barely.

I've never been so disappointed in music gear in my life. It sounded terrible and even the DI signal couldn't be cleaned up for the sound guy when I went through a board. Come to find out, the cab was the main culprit that made it sound so bad - a boomy, muddy mess! Added a 212 Sunn cab that I bought at a yard sale to it and it sounded a lot better. Gigged with that for a bit. So getting a better cab to use with or instead of this boomy 115 was a good choice.

Then I bought my first Eden amp, a Nemesis RS400 and it was a bit of a wake-up call. Now that set up sounded a LOT better. But the amp put out more power than that poor Sunn cab could handle and would drive it into farting noises pretty easily. So next purchase was a better cab, an acoustic B410 from GC.

Now I had speakers that could handle the power AND sounded good. But that darn GK cab was still a problem. I had to drop my Bass EQ down to 10 o'clock to clean it up enough to play without mud and that wasn't doing the acoustic B410 any favors...it needed that bass EQ to at least be flat. Next move was to a tremendously good amp that also solved my cab problem.

It's an Eden WT500 dual powerblock amp that was upgraded to 400-watts per channel @ 4ohms and 800-watts bridged at 8 ohms. I bought it directly from David Nordschow (founder of Eden) in 2010 after he head sold Eden and started his new company DNA. Since 1999, he had used that amp to developed the Eden cabs. So I knew it would be good.

The separate power channels of this amp made a big difference. I put the GK115bpx cab in one side and the acoustic B410 in the other. Then I just moved the balance button to about 1 o'clock over towards the 410 side. It then sent more power to the 410 than the 115, allowing me to balance the mix of the sound. Huge difference in the sound again, this time due to the better amp. So this was a decent set-up to gig with and I did that for about 5 years.

Next purchase was for a cabinet because I already had a killer amp. I had lusted after David's new DNS-410 since he first brought it out in 2010. I'd seen some of the development videos and was quite excited about it. But I didn't have the $1,000 I needed to buy it. I'd saved up some, but not enough. Then, unfortunately, my godmother passed away. Good news was that she had put some savings bonds aside for me payable upon her death. That $200 in savings bonds she put away ended up adding more than enough for the $1,000 price for the cab. Actually about $1,150 with the casters kit.

So every time I play through my cab I fondly remember my Aunt Eva. NOW, with this amp and this cab, my sound was/is amazing. It records beautifully, I get told to turn it down at outdoor festivals if I sneak my master up past 10 o'clock, it is super clear and articulate and it is just a great combination. It only took me from 2006 to 2015 to get there....that's a lot 'o gigs.

So it depends upon where you are with your gear now to determine what is the most important piece to purchase first. A good amp will last you through at least a couple of cabinet upgrades. Once you get to a level where another amp is not going to make a significant difference in your sound, a great cab will make the most sense. You really aren't going to get "great sound" until you have both. If you have nothing at all, get as good of an amp as you can afford and get a lower priced cab. If you already have a good sounding amp...get a better cab. If you already have a good or great cab...get a better amp.

I have since bought another cab, a DNS-210 by DNA. Smaller venues would be scared when I brought in my 410 and would make me use their smaller, worse-sounding backline amps. Even the small brewpub where we hosted open-mic nights on most Friday nights wouldn't bat an eye at a 210. So I got that to cover my small and medium venues. Come to find out, it covers even large indoor venues just fine, so I use it for all my indoor venues now.

Even though I get great sound out of my Eden amp and either of my DNA cabs, I am planning on buying a new amp - a DNA-800. Reason is that it weighs less than 5-lbs (4.8 to be exact) and it is a great sounding amp. Makes sense it would be since the same guy designed it that designed my Eden amps. My WT500/800 weighs about 36-lbs in its rack and the thought of carrying in a 5-lb amp in inside a shoulder bag is very appealing in my old age. But that's a "want" not a "need", so I won't be doing that until this Covid-19 is gone and I start playing gigs again.

 

[el murdoque]

None of the bands/projects I'm in at the moment requires me to bring a cab other than for stage monitoring.
I send a DI signal to FOH, which does the heavy lifting. When this trend started, I was a bit put off, because I finally owned a full stack, able to carry the venue without breaking a sweat. I later upgraded my aguilar cabs for barefaced ones that not only sound great but also weigh next to nothing.

I often bring a single 112 cab with a 50W tube amp. That's no match for an acoustic drum kit, but it looks awesome, provides a nice DI signal and rattles the floorboards so I can feel the bass through my soles while listening to my IEM feed. And it feels like ... well, at least I put an amp on stage instead of running my headrush or my mini board with a Sansamp and a tuner.

So for me personal, most crucial to my sound is my preamp.

 

[Blaze Barlow]

It's just funny because an Ashdown CTM-300 watt all-tube amp costs $2,800 alone! But apparently you guys feel that if you run that celebrity amp (used by Jeff Ament) through a "standard" quality 410 (let's say Hartke for fun) it will sound less good than if you ran a $650 Little Mark III head through some righteously expensive cab. I'm doubtful, but then again I've never spent more than $1300 on a complete rig. Many of you have spent tens of thousands and toured professionally.

regardless of what kind of gear you play with..you are still going to sound like you..practice and time will hopefully improve us all..your post questions the importance of amp and cabs.....sounds like next you will be asking which cab is the "ome"......best thing is try out "You" on different cabs..you will probably never get the sound of other people's rig because the chain is always different..and so are the fingers..!!..you will always be you no matter what..so be yourself and stand out and let yourself shine in your own light....I am currently using ampeg cabs..I used sunn and fender for many years...I like them all........check out these cabs....these are 12 inch cone cabs but can be had in any configuration......

 

[whero]

Thread needs a poll.

I'd vote 'cab'.

 

[LUCE]

Cab.

 

[Omega Monkey]

Well, there's a range of bang for buck in both heads and cabs, BUT, the point of diminishing returns is a lot higher on cabs than on heads, and you can get some CRAZY heads on a budget. My ShuttleMax 9.2 is a dual channel hybrid 900w class D amp with 3 effects loops which sounds amazing (and came with a footswitch), and it was like $500 a couple years ago. Most people would never really need more amp than that. My main cab setup was about twice that, and that's not even for super fancy expensive new stuff.

 

[Mike E]

Can always have your cake & eat it to with a combo such as a vintage Ampeg B-15.

 

[Cutter8]

No question for me, if it is either/or, cab before amp!

 

[p12bassnut]

Dude, Just go for both. You will be more satisfied when you know you have a great Cab AND a great Amp

 

[RabidMusic]

I think you need balance in your life.

 

[jbhaugh]

It's just funny because an Ashdown CTM-300 watt all-tube amp costs $2,800 alone! But apparently you guys feel that if you run that celebrity amp (used by Jeff Ament) through a "standard" quality 410 (let's say Hartke for fun) it will sound less good than if you ran a $650 Little Mark III head through some righteously expensive cab. I'm doubtful, but then again I've never spent more than $1300 on a complete rig. Many of you have spent tens of thousands and toured professionally.

Cab tunings and speakers make a big difference. Celebrity endorsements for amps mean nothing.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

Speaker systems are much more flawed than amps. Speakers are rarely transparent. Most have significant coloration to the sound through midrange emphasis, weak or trumped-up bass, missing highs, artificial sounding highs, poor dispursion.

So as has been said, the speaker is THE WEAK LINK in your whole chain. A $350 amp is far more able to reproduce wide range, accurate sound than a $350 speaker.

$300 amp plus $800 speaker will sound much better than an $800 amp plus $300 speaker.

That aint no joke! I learned this at my 1st attempts building Hi-Fi speakers out of the old McGee radio store in KC...but...in Hi-Fi, matching an amp and cab are a huge deal.

There are plenty of decent used bass cabs for reasonable dough, especially the heavy bulkier ones folks are moving away from so not necessary to mortgage a house LOL!

Case in point, my Eden Metro 2x10 combo which weigh a lot and are very bulky to move around causing me to bend too much, casters are often broken etc.

Solution? Built a separate head cabinet....now a world class amp/speaker setup but much easier to maneuver each piece...holds it own with some new $2000 rigs.

Many folks want lightweight, small rigs... so for me, the deals are used high quality, but often heavy or bulky gear that have been sold off...NO mortgage!

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Does it make more sense to splurge on the amp or the cab? Like, assuming you took out a second mortgage to buy a brand/model that would normally be considered celebrity musician level and out of reach, would it be wiser to spend that kind of money on the cab or the amp? (Assuming that your only priority is sonic quality)

Cab, and in most cases you will not need to take out a HELOC to pay for it.

 

[Rabidhamster]

Does it make more sense to splurge on the amp or the cab? Like, assuming you took out a second mortgage to buy a brand/model that would normally be considered celebrity musician level and out of reach, would it be wiser to spend that kind of money on the cab or the amp? (Assuming that your only priority is sonic quality)

No, it wouldn't.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Any decent head will get you home. A good cab makes a huge difference.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

It depends on what you already have.

In general I think cabs tend to make more of a difference in your sound than amps. This is mostly because cabs typically have a wider range of voicings than most amps.

If you already have a cab you like, consider getting and amp. If you already have nice amp, but your cab is not cutting it, look into a cab. Something to keep in mind is amp/cab pairings can be important. Some amps and cabs don't really work well together, and some can create a bit of magic.

Rather than looking at what is most popular, I suggest you explore the type of sound you want, and then research the products that are likely to give you the results you want. It really doesn't matter what I like, it matters what you like. The best way to pick gear is play whatever you can get your hands on. Even listening to videos can be misleading because you miss the visceral sensations you get from playing the equipment, and how well the dispersion characteristics match your needs.

I don't know what you consider celebrity spending for an bass rig, but you should be able to get a really awesome hybrid rig for $2,700 or less. That's about the price for a big Mesa Subway rig. If you spend that much you should be able to buy a rig capable of playing the largest events. If you wanted to splurge on an all tube monster, you may spend up to about $4K for a big rig. An SVT VR and Heritage 810E lists for about $3,8450. Nobody says you have to buy a monster rig, so you don't have to spend anywhere near that much, unless you want to.

My last touring rig typically included only an Eden D210XLT pushed by about 350W. I also had a D410XLT but I rarely used it. Most of my touring rigs were pretty modest, even though I could have built monster rigs if I wanted to. One problem with a monster rig, is most of us have to transport and set it up ourselves, keep that in mind if you don't have roadies kissing your rings. I didn't feel that effort of dealing with the D410XLT was generally worth the extra performance it provide. I usually brought it out to suit someone else's needs. For example, one of my drummers wanted big fat lows, so I set the 410 right next to him on the ground and adjusted the volume to his needs. I ran the 210 behind me on my rolling rack at a much lower volume.

Another thing to consider is you don't have to buy new. I have a collection of 28 amps. I actually paid more than list for some of the rare an obscure models, but many of the others were less than half price.[/QUOTE

I have (2) 210 Eden cabs one XLT, and one XST. Like you, I only need one regardless of venue as most of the time I'm playing with FOH. The other is for someone else's benefit, not mine.