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Still using Rosewood in 2018!

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by Hevy T, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. Wood and Wire

    Wood and Wire

    Jul 15, 2017
    The trouble is you have both of those things happening together, and as far as I can tell, we simply don't know enough about the reproductive cycle of the Brazillian species. Coupled with the fact that the smaller the population gets, the more prone the seeds become to insect attack.

    As long as it's implemented properly, sensibly, and fairly, I don't have a problem with it.

    I do see it becoming a serious issue for musicians, collectors, and manufacturers, if it leads to a situation where there is a perception that instruments made for export, out of the U.S. market, are considered inferior.

    As it stands, you can still export, and musicians can still travel internationally (with) instruments incorporating Rosewood, but you must have the correct documentation, and certificates.

    There is sure to be a black market in both instruments, and counterfeit certificates.
  2. ctmullins

    ctmullins fueled by beer and coconut Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 18, 2008
    MS Gulf Coast
    I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
    I suppose this would all be different if instruments were durable; if they didn’t all just disintegrate spontaneously after a few years of use. Imagine if wood and metal lasted for more than a decade! Then musicians could purchase a few good-quality instruments and just play them for ten or fifteen, or (gasp) perhaps even twenty years or more! Alas, we wish it were so. Instead we are compelled through necessity to purchase brand-new instruments by the shipping container load, every year. We are hopelessly locked into this cycle, through the cruel conspiracy of necessity and compulsion. Woe is us.
  3. shwashwa


    Aug 30, 2003
    ive heard that traveling for international gigs can be an issue with these regulations. true?
  4. 40Hz

    40Hz Supporting Member

    My real objection is it’s largely window dressing and doesn’t address the underlying issues that are what’s causing the problem. So people get together at a conference called to show that those in power “get it” and are on top of it, come up with some poorly thought out rules that seems to fix the issue, pat themselves on the back over it, smile for the cameras, and then leave it up to everbody else how to implement it so it makes at least some sense.

    Kinda like the old joke about the fat slug in the work crew who says: “I’ve done all the thinkin’ for ya - so now all the rest of you guys have to do is get it done.”

    The legislature in my state has raised things like this to an art form. People want a law passed. Legislature (due to pressure from special interests) stonewalls on it. Pressure mounts and finally the legislature reluctantly passes the bill. But they neglect to pass it with an implementation clause, or to fund it. So you have a law with no provisions made to enforce it. Or money to do so even if responsibilities were assigned to some branch in the state government to do so.

    I’m all for resource management and preservation. But CITES is pure puppet theater from what I’ve seen of it in action. Because the simple fact is, NO country on the planet is going to relinquish one shred of what it considers its national sovereignty to comply with an international agreement unless there’s something in it for them economically. And cheating and evasion are the name of the game even then.

    CITES is mostly window dressing to make it look like something is getting done when very little actually is.
    Tbone76, MCF, wmmj and 5 others like this.
  5. Wisebass


    Jan 12, 2017
    Lost in Space

    This had to be said!!! :thumbsup:

    I' ll add one more word: palm oil!!! :poop:


    TrevorOfDoom likes this.
  6. mellowinman

    mellowinman Free Man

    Oct 19, 2011
    By 2032 I shall be almost 70, and will probably have all the same instruments I have now.
    wmmj and ctmullins like this.
  7. TrevorOfDoom


    Jun 17, 2007
    Austin, TX
    My wife is getting a Master’s Degree in Sustainability, she’s a vegan (i’m a part-time vegan too), and she can list all the millions of ways that human beings are destroying the planet.
    The frustration comes in that we live in a consumerist society, and the answer to most of our problems is to stop being consumers.
    Buuuut nobody wants to take that step. So we (governmentsx institutions, etc) institute policies and practices that change how we consume, and ideally, educate as well.
    Methinks that’s the real endgoal of CITES, but yes, there’s definitely some trade protectionism mingled in there, as it is politics, afterall.
    And i do think CITES overreached a bit, but i understand why.
    It’s a balancing act, as literally thousands of industries are trying to change to be more ecologically sustainable, while some other industries refuse to acknowledge anything is wrong at all.

    Sorry for the ramble. Just trying to give a different perspective.

    TL;DR: because we won’t stop consuming woods and such, CITES is trying to change the woods we do consume and how we consume them.
    It’s a process.
    Tbone76, wmmj, chris_b and 3 others like this.
  8. jamro217

    jamro217 Supporting Member

    Ask Ted Nugent.
  9. jamro217

    jamro217 Supporting Member

    The only positive of this is that we never have to be burdened with taking a neck off to reveal the manufacture date.
    ctmullins likes this.
  10. Wood and Wire

    Wood and Wire

    Jul 15, 2017

    Now I can't even get a replacement for my Orangutan pelt strap?

    5StringBlues likes this.
  11. Wisebass


    Jan 12, 2017
    Lost in Space
    Funny-Cool-story-bro-Funny-Pictures-MEME-Jokes - Copie.

    hugs for that :)

    Wood and Wire likes this.
  12. Lesfunk

    Lesfunk Supporting Member

    Carbon fiber!
    micgtr71 likes this.
  13. Rip Van Dan

    Rip Van Dan Supporting Member

    Feb 2, 2009
    Duvall, WA
    I worked for the Orvis Company for 27-years and one time had to handle a "presidential complaint" by calling back a lady who complained about one of our casual jackets and some of our pants. It was made from a really heavy cotton twill we called "Rhinohide". She was reading me the riot act about making jackets and pants out of skin from an endangered species.

    After she had her say, I explained to her that it was actually a very heavy twill cotton that was extremely durable and we just called it "Rhinohide" because of its extreme durability. Also introduced her to Orvis' conservation policy and efforts and she left the conversation chuckling about her mistake.

    Speaking of rosewood fretboards, my 1965 Jazz Bass had a lighter shade of rosewood than I've seen on fretboards since. Wonder if Fender changed suppliers when CBS bought them? The 1966 and later Fender basses always had a significantly darker shade than my 1965 did.
  14. Wisebass


    Jan 12, 2017
    Lost in Space
    hard to explain that marabou is turkey? :D

    tight lines

    burk48237 likes this.
  15. japhy4529

    japhy4529 this is only a test... Supporting Member

    Go to Settings > General > Keyboards and turn off "Auto Correction".
  16. Wood and Wire

    Wood and Wire

    Jul 15, 2017
    I just can't imagine where in the world a large American corporation might have been sourcing tropical woods, where there would have been deforestation on an industrial scale, during the mid-60's through to the mid 70's...

    1-2-3 what are we fighting for?

    40Hz likes this.
  17. Turnaround

    Turnaround Commercial User

    May 6, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Independent Instrument Technician, and Contractor to Club Bass and Guitar - Toronto
    There are 183 countries that have developed CITES together and have signed the agreement. So MOST have agreed.
    wmmj likes this.
  18. That’s nothing. I texted my wife about our son the other day “I hope he dies”.

    I didn’t even notice till she responded..... of course, I meant “does”.
  19. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    But I'm betting you didn't mention your broOtal culling of Naugas, did you?
    40Hz, Rip Van Dan, jamro217 and 3 others like this.
  20. 40Hz

    40Hz Supporting Member

    There’s a huge degree of difference between agreeing to something in principle and adhering to it in fact.

    Of the 195 recognized sovereign nations in the world today, 193 of them are currently members of the United Nations.

    Read the Charter of the United Nations.

    Now read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights proclaimed and adopted by the United Nations back in 1948.

    Next go read any book or article on world history you'd care to read covering the period from 1948 to 2017.

    For extra credit go watch the evening news tonight.

    With all due respect I’m not all that sanguine about the fact 183 nations have signed onto CITES. Or much of anything else they signed for that matter.

    Wish it were otherwise. But “so it goes.”

    Paper agreements are all well and good But they’re maps. They’re not, in and of themselves, the reality. And as Alfred Korzybski so famously reminds us: “The map is not the territory.” ;)
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
    MCF, wmmj and tfer like this.

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