Still using Rosewood in 2018!

[vintageguitarz]

Ethnically sourced?

I agree, that was a Stupid reference to make, rather than Geographical or Territorial Lines. Sourcing has nothing to do with Ethnicity (Chinese, Spanish, Slavic, Native Indian etc) of who live were. People, please look up what you are writing before you make yourself look ignorant.

 

[MobileHolmes]

Just you wait. By 2032, the vast majority of rock maple will have been recklessly over-harvested, leading to sweeping punitive legislation regulating its use. You’ll be lucky to find a maple key fob, let alone an instrument, available for a reasonable price. The hidden tragedy in all this will be the fact that the skateboarding industry is the real culprit.

I"m more worried about Ash at this point. The Emerald Ash Borer may well be the end of the species.

 

[petrus61]

Hi Wood and Wire

your post made me lough!!!

all fretboards come from WOODSTOCK?

greetings

Wise(b)ass

Just the Spectors and Veilletes. The rest come from wood stock.

 

[vintageguitarz]

Not true. If it is Rosewood, it doesn't matter where it was sourced, it's still restricted. But what is called "Mexican Rosewood" is not Rosewood at all. And perhaps that's what you are seeing being imported into the UK.

My wife is a Director of International Trade Compliance, Regulations and Customs for a very large company on the West Coast. I can assure you that these regulations for woods importing and exporting as a Raw product or a finished product are quite easily circumvented by the company simply filing the proper "paper work" to cross borders, all of which are controlled by each country's Customs agency (who give a squat about environmental issues). Hesus! Canada and the US are fighting over the import and export of freakin PINE for 2x4s! And that is all over Gov Subsidies and "Price Dumping" by Canada. The UN has no jurisdiction on any US Trade Regulations, especially under the current administration and her experience is that the vast majority of other nations ignore in reality what the Socialists at the useless UN proclaim's. The majority of Customs Regulations (and these Woods restrictions) are primarily enacted to be "punitive" actions against other countries or companies, with the country or countries enacting them looking for bargaining power (economic or political) or PAYOFFS. Most of the Countries in Central and South America, and Africa are riddled with Corruption. India and certainly Pakistan have more than their share of corrupt officials. Waiving some "Green Backs" gets you a wavier for import or export faster than you can spit.

As for what's Rosewood and not Rosewood, as a Luthier for more than 40 years, companies from flooring, furniture, ..... and instruments have been lying or "inventing" non-existent species and even families of Woods that don't actually exists in Botany (look that up if you don't know what Botany is ... and it has nothing to do with Ethnicity). Rosewood finger boards or accents aren't going anywhere and there are plenty of alternatives that are quite suitable replacements. Rosewood is cheap compared to other wood species except for Maple for fingerboards, and that is why, along with it "average" tonal qualities, it's one of the oldest woods used on stringed instruments. Rosewood also has it's problems too, it's too soft and wears too fast if the instrument is used too much (you've all seen "valley's" worn into Rosewood fingerboards.} It's why you see Ebony and other harder woods used on Violins, Cellos, etc. Trust me, Rosewoods are now "farmed" on plantations and those Tree Businessmen have two motives - (1) make the "wild" grown Rosewood more expensive so, (2) their Plantation grown Rosewood more valuable. It's all a game. Worry about being Nuked by N Korea instead.

These are the FACTS.

 

[songwriter21]

I prefer baby albino rhinoceros for all my straps....and pau ferro doesn't look right to me on a Fender imho. I prefer "dark rosewood", whatever that actually is.

Oh yeah? I only use straps made of the finest baby manatees, otters, and unicorns. And veal.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I really hate to be that guy who ignores the political rants and brings the thread back to it's original purpose, but I have a question:

I live in the US and have some gigs coming up in Canada. The two basses I'd like to bring both have 20+ year old Indian Rosewood fretboards. My reading of the regulations is that I have nothing to worry about, but does anyone have any specific advice regarding what problems I could run into and what I can do to mitigate said potential problems?

I hate to be that other guy who points out the original purpose of the thread was actually yet another one but, it was. The OP wondered why guitar manufacturers still use rosewood after CITES. Questions about travelling with an instrument with a rosewood fingerboard are equally a detour.
____

I agree, that was a Stupid reference to make, rather than Geographical or Territorial Lines. Sourcing has nothing to do with Ethnicity (Chinese, Spanish, Slavic, Native Indian etc) of who live were.

You're kidding, right? @Wood and Wire clearly meant "ethically", but the automatic spellcheck thought otherwise. As per here:

Ethnically sourced?

Frickin spellchecker!

I thought it was funny in 2010, when I sent someone a text saying "I'm walking the dog", without noticing the iPhone had changed it to "I'm the walking dead" - but now I'm just fed up with the number of times I type the correct word, and the phone sneakily changes it to something nonsensical.

Going to have to employ a proofreader.

People, please look up what you are writing before you make yourself look ignorant.

Um, agreed...

 

[Jeff Scott]

Just the Spectors and Veilletes. The rest come from wood stock.

You forgot Martin Keith.

 

[petrus61]

You forgot Martin Keith.

Former apprentice of Joe Veillette. Oops. There's a handful of others (I think Citron is still there) I can't remember also.

 

[JazzyJuiceCombo]

The only solution to the demands of wood, and the decline of the majestic giraffe, is to start culling guitarists.
Then we’ll have a lovely new source for our bass straps.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

I really hate to be that guy who ignores the political rants and brings the thread back to it's original purpose, but I have a question:

I live in the US and have some gigs coming up in Canada. The two basses I'd like to bring both have 20+ year old Indian Rosewood fretboards. My reading of the regulations is that I have nothing to worry about, but does anyone have any specific advice regarding what problems I could run into and what I can do to mitigate said potential problems?

The main CITES thread is the best source of information on this.

My short version?

Buying and selling instruments that contain shell inlays, or any type of rosewood (and the variants that have been added to CITES, like Bubinga) across national borders is a colossal pain at the moment.

Travel for individual musicians is much simpler, as there is an exception for personal travel and performance. In theory, a CITES passport for your axe is unnecessary.

I keep a eye out for this, and so far I haven't heard of any electric bassists running into trouble while touring. Personally, I would still carry dated photos and receipts to prove that I already owned the instrument before I left, and didn't buy it while I was out of the country.

However, Customs agencies are still struggling to deal with this, and the situation is constantly evolving.

The best way to avoid any issues, is to avoid fancy inlays and rain forest woods. Pretty much any standard maple-necked solidbody Fender bass or offshore copy should be safe. So is my maple-necked Dingwall.

 

[40Hz]

But I'm betting you didn't mention your broOtal culling of Naugas, did you?

Oh! Those poor naugadogs!

The must be almost extinct by now.

 

[BlueAliceOasis]

I love rosewood and I hope to still see it wherever I can.

 

[GIBrat51]

Oh! Those poor naugadogs!

The must be almost extinct by now.

And the Skeet!! Don't forget the poor Skeet; ruthlessly blown out of the air in their tens's of thousands by heartless shotgunners every year..

SAVE THE SKEET!!!

 

[Keith Guitars]

This is, as I'm sure you can all imagine, a lively and ongoing discussion among guitarmakers.
We often cross borders for shows, etc., and many of us depend on international sales as part of our business model.

Thought CITES does have, in theory, an exception for "personal" instruments, please remember:
enforcement of these rules comes down to the specific customs agent you encounter when crossing the border.
These agents are, by and large, not experts in wood identification - but, they do know that certain materials (such as Brazilian Rosewood)
are NOT to be allowed across. Add the aspect of bureaucracy and "cover your butt", and you'll understand why many customs agents
can be motivated to be overly vigilant with any kind of rosewood.

I know of several people who have had issues crossing borders in this scenario. BE AWARE: you can, in theory, have your instrument confiscated.
This is a risk, albeit potentially a minor one. If you plan to cross borders regularly with an instrument, consider one with an alternative material fingerboard
(preferably one that is not easily mistaken for rosewood...maple being the obvious choice).
Or, if it's just a one-shot visit - make the phone call to FWS and at least educate yourself on the rules, so you know what to do if you get challenged.

As for those of us who make the darn things - you can believe I will advise each and every customer who may want rosewood on future orders to consider all of the above.
It's up to us to introduce new alternatives into the market, and there are many good ones - wenge, katalox, and other woods are just as viable and don't (as yet) have
the issues of sustainability and legal restriction.

Finally - just for perspective - most of these CITES regulations are based on the MASSIVE volume of rosewood being shipped to China for furniture.
This consumption is several orders of magnitude higher than the entire American guitar industry combined.
So, to whatever extent you feel the sustainability argument informs your personal choices about instrument buying - well..do what makes you feel right,
but also be aware of the larger picture here.

Cheers,
Martin

 

[marmadaddy]

The main CITES thread is the best source of information on this.

My short version?

Buying and selling instruments that contain shell inlays, or any type of rosewood (and the variants that have been added to CITES, like Bubinga) across national borders is a colossal pain at the moment.

Travel for individual musicians is much simpler, as there is an exception for personal travel and performance. In theory, a CITES passport for your axe is unnecessary.

I keep a eye out for this, and so far I haven't heard of any electric bassists running into trouble while touring. Personally, I would still carry dated photos and receipts to prove that I already owned the instrument before I left, and didn't buy it while I was out of the country.

However, Customs agencies are still struggling to deal with this, and the situation is constantly evolving.

The best way to avoid any issues, is to avoid fancy inlays and rain forest woods. Pretty much any standard maple-necked solidbody Fender bass or offshore copy should be safe. So is my maple-necked Dingwall.

Thank you for this.
Turns out I had nothing to worry about, the border crossing both ways was completely uneventful and it looks like I'll be doing it more often.