Still using Rosewood in 2018!

[Kukulkan61]

Ever heard the term"money talks and bull**** walks"..

It's pretty confusing to me personally. I actually had a bass that didn't have any rosewood in it at all stopped on the way to Asia because of it. It was a Conklin gt7 and the neck was wenge and purpleheart, body was ash and maple.
View attachment 2822662
eBay was kind enough to let me keep the money and refunded the buyer though. No idea where that bass ended up though.

I've seen several instruments like some of the newer Warwick
Rockbasses with rosewood boards and they are coming from overseas into the states. So I'm not really understanding what going on.

 

[202dy]

My wife is getting a Master's Degree in Sustainability, she's a vegan (i'm a part-time vegan too), and she can list all the millions of ways that human beings are destroying the planet.
The frustration comes in that we live in a consumerist society, and the answer to most of our problems is to stop being consumers.
Buuuut nobody wants to take that step. So we (governmentsx institutions, etc) institute policies and practices that change how we consume, and ideally, educate as well.
Methinks that's the real endgoal of CITES, but yes, there's definitely some trade protectionism mingled in there, as it is politics, afterall.
And i do think CITES overreached a bit, but i understand why.
It's a balancing act, as literally thousands of industries are trying to change to be more ecologically sustainable, while some other industries refuse to acknowledge anything is wrong at all.

Sorry for the ramble. Just trying to give a different perspective.

TL;DR: because we won't stop consuming woods and such, CITES is trying to change the woods we do consume and how we consume them.
It's a process.

It is interesting that when some African countries allow the hunting of endangered species, the population of those species increases. So much so that they are no longer endangered. That is because they charge hunters huge fees for licensing, trophy transport, and exportation. Those funds are used to create game preserves and fund the employment of game wardens. These wardens are very good at protecting their animals from poachers.

Additionally, the hunters spend a premium for their own transportation, food, and lodging. This is to say nothing of what they spend on guide services and tips to the locals. It is accepted that the meat will be donated to the locals.

In the countries that do not allow and regulate the hunting of endangered species, those species are still endangered.

It would appear that capitalism and consumerism actually do a lot of good for the protection of endangered species.

Respectfully submitted.

 

[Fender_Bender]

Did you think that maybe Fender has a warehouse full of rosewood and will continue to use their stock until it runs out?

They don't buy a board at a time.

They probably have a years worth to use up at least

Exactly. My guess is that for the moment they are using up the thousands of boards they have in stock. If you want a new production instrument with rosewood in it don't drag your feet about it.

 

[mikewalker]

I'm quite unfavorably impressed with all the rosewood boards on new USA instruments - they just want to isolate the Canadian market entirely? It's bad enough we already have to pay through the nose for everything, now there are huge swathes of product that we can't even get anymore (since most US dealers don't want to bother with all the CITES paperwork). Surely this isn't what they had in mind when they wanted to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN?

 

[Wood and Wire]

Go to Settings > General > Keyboards and turn off "Auto Correction".

What I'm looking for is a way to turn off "Auto Incorrection".

 

[telecopy]

There are a lot of different species of Rosewood, just as there are many species of Softwood, and Hardwood.

It amounts to a tightening up of which species can be used, and proving that they are ethnically sourced.

I may not know how it works, but if they have tons of seasoned rosewood sitting around can't they still use it up?

 

[monkeyland]

Ethnically sourced?

So many hand drums...

 

[monkeyland]

Peruvian snow leopard?

Wrong. That would have to be a Swedish Snow Leopard.

 

[Wood and Wire]

I may not know how it works, but if they have tons of seasoned rosewood sitting around can't they still use it up?

As I understand it, if it was felled before 1992, there's no issue.

Anything later will have to have the appropriate certification, for it to be used legally.

There are no doubt stockpiles of wood that are basically banned, so I would imagine they will be seized & destroyed, just as illegally poached Ivory is.

 

[Wood and Wire]

That's nothing. I texted my wife about our son the other day "I hope he dies".

I didn't even notice till she responded..... of course, I meant "does".

Oops!

"Honestly honey, I don't resent the kid for ending my rockstar dream".




The weird thing in my case, was that the TV show "The Walking Dead" had only been on for a couple of days at that point, so I was astounded that the phrase was popping up at all, let alone as the primary suggestion.

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

It is interesting that when some African countries allow the hunting of endangered species, the population of those species increases. So much so that they are no longer endangered. That is because they charge hunters huge fees for licensing, trophy transport, and exportation. Those funds are used to create game preserves and fund the employment of game wardens. These wardens are very good at protecting their animals from poachers.

Additionally, the hunters spend a premium for their own transportation, food, and lodging. This is to say nothing of what they spend on guide services and tips to the locals. It is accepted that the meat will be donated to the locals.

In the countries that do not allow and regulate the hunting of endangered species, those species are still endangered.

It would appear that capitalism and consumerism actually do a lot of good for the protection of endangered species.

Respectfully submitted.

Respectfully acknowledged.
I'm not saying all consumption is bad, or that capitalism is bad, but it's all about balance and moderation.
This is a conversation for a different time and different forum.

 

[monkeyland]

Respectfully acknowledged.
I'm not saying all consumption is bad, or that capitalism is bad, but it's all about balance and moderation.
This is a conversation for a different time and different forum.

Its actually a pretty great time and place for the conversation as it directly affects the very subject that this forum is about.

 

[Nephilymbass]

I'm quite unfavorably impressed with all the rosewood boards on new USA instruments - they just want to isolate the Canadian market entirely? It's bad enough we already have to pay through the nose for everything, now there are huge swathes of product that we can't even get anymore (since most US dealers don't want to bother with all the CITES paperwork). Surely this isn't what they had in mind when they wanted to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN?

Lol, I'd love to live in Canada. If it wasn't for family and friends I'd move there. Had to pay two households worth of bills for almost three years before my mother in law finally started getting disability. Still have to pay some of her bills. Could of easily bought a bunch of Fodera basses or bought on to some huge tours with all that money . Just wait until this wave of people with no pensions hits. Healthcare is peanuts compared to the situation we're facing having so many people with no retirement.

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

Allowing deforestation won't bring back tree species, unlike the animal example given, which also isn't always true. In fact, it usually isn't.
There's always outliers and anomolies, but in general, protection, in moderation and done well, works.
The number of small businesses the world over might use more Brazilian Rosewood than Fender does (unlikely), but using CITES to go after Fender makes a bigger statement, which ideally leads to the enlightenment of consumers who would normally not know or care.
In the end, conservationism is simply being aware of the consequences of our choices.
Using anything with Palm Oil means that you have a part in deforestation and endangerment of multiple animal species that live in those forests.
Buying beef from the supermarkets supports Commercial Animal Agriculture, which has a myriad of harmful effects.
CITES is just one effort of many to conserve and protect. In the end, it's run by humans, and humans can be impetuous, overreach their authority, and make bad decisions.

I honestly have no dog in this particular hunt. I just want everyone to be informed and aware.

 

[mikewalker]

Lol, I'd love to live in Canada. If it wasn't for family and friends I'd move there. Had to pay two households worth of bills for almost three years before my mother in law finally started getting disability. Still have to pay some of her bills. Could of easily bought a bunch of Fodera basses or bought on to some huge tours with all that money . Just wait until this wave of people with no pensions hits. Healthcare is peanuts compared to the situation we're facing having so many people with no retirement.

Wanna trade? I lived in USA from 1999-2001 (NAFTA work visa) and then went overseas to Moscow for a dozen years. Now stuck in Canada again, and life here sucks in numerous ways. Don't believe all the carefully constructed propaganda - Canada is run by an Old Boys Club that screws everyone else in the country mightily, and gets away with it as apparently we're so damn polite we don't want to mention the Emperor's new clothes. Canada is in a bigger mess than USA, truth be told we have so many crazy people wandering around they basically outnumber everyone else. Didn't help that they closed all the asylums and turned everyone out on the street 40 years ago - now we have GENERATIONS of mentally ill people who enjoy our bountiful "social welfare" system SO MUCH that vast numbers of them just give up trying to collect Welfare and go live on the streets... And don't even get me STARTED on the "healthcare" system - you have to get on a three year waiting list for a physician. Or you can stand in line ALL DAY at one of the two tiny walk in clinics that service our region of about 40,000... But I digress!

 

[Fender_Bender]

I'm quite unfavorably impressed with all the rosewood boards on new USA instruments - they just want to isolate the Canadian market entirely? It's bad enough we already have to pay through the nose for everything, now there are huge swathes of product that we can't even get anymore (since most US dealers don't want to bother with all the CITES paperwork). Surely this isn't what they had in mind when they wanted to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN?

You haven't gotten used to the smelly end of the stick by now?.

 

[telecopy]

As I understand it, if it was felled before 1992, there's no issue.

Anything later will have to have the appropriate certification, for it to be used legally.

There are no doubt stockpiles of wood that are basically banned, so I would imagine they will be seized & destroyed, just as illegally poached Ivory is.

Wow, I'm sure those government inspectors will take all that banned rosewood to their Amish woodworker buddies and get some fine new handcrafted furnishings.

 

[fishdreams]

I had a bass built in 2014 by a Brazilian luthier and the fretboard is Brazilian rosewood, I guess I will have to keep it for the rest of my life. Not a problem for me has it is an amazing bass, the only big issue is that if one day I have to play in Europe, I might have to leave it home.

Only if the fretboard is over 22 lbs, which im going to guess it's not CITES Regulations For The Importation And Exportation Of Rosewood Effective January 2, 2017

 

[beate_r]

CITES has named ALL varieties of Rosewood, i.e. al Dalbergia. It still can be used in manufacture so long as none of it crosses international borders.

No, with the exception of Dalbergia Nigra, Rosewood can cross the borders as long as the seller has a permit. Which to achieve is straightforward as long as the wood has been correctly registered according to the national implementation of the international law.

And all rosewood which is used in today's guitars has been harvested and probably also imported before the new CITES regulations and thus is easy to handle... but even today it is permissible to harvest rosewood - You just have to document everything and keep Your record of trading permission. Trade is not forbidden, but controlled.

 

[Madhouse27]

I thought this rosewood situation might steer Fender to actually produce a left-handed bass with a maple fretboard. Now I see they've started shipping leftys with pau ferro....how exciting.