Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

[Kaa]

Oh, and I'm sure that this is probably not the most useful information in the world, but I figure the Fender latch design was due to the same design being very popular on luggage in the 50s-60s in the Estados Unidos.

Yeah, these have been around for decades. Luggage, briefcases. Sometimes being old is a feature!

 

[Sascha Erni]

In bass related news, I've been playing a lot of fingerstyle, and my arthritic right thumb was screaming at me for a couple of days. If I want to stay with the fingerstyle, I need to develop a different thumb position than the "parallel with the fingers" one. I'm thinking about trying to develop a new thumb position in the "hitchhiker" style with the thumb perpendicular to the fingers.

I live with arthritis in most of my fingers and larger joints, and arthrosis in both thumbs. Floating thumb works well for me, but it took a long time to switch from anchoring on the pickup. Also, stretching before playing and consciously relaxing my hands while playing is key, too. My rheumatologist thinks it's time for orthosises, but so far, gloves with cut-off fingers are enough when it’s getting really bad. (Like, right now. Autumn, yay.)

Hope you have a good MD, and take care.

 

[Kaa]

I live with arthritis in most of my fingers and larger joints, and arthrosis in both thumbs. Floating thumb works well for me, but it took a long time to switch from anchoring on the pickup. Also, stretching before playing and consciously relaxing my hands while playing is key, too. My rheumatologist thinks it's time for orthosises, but so far, gloves with cut-off fingers are enough when it’s getting really bad. (Like, right now. Autumn, yay.)

Hope you have a good MD, and take care.

Sascha, after trying different things, to various results, I've decided to go completely pick-style. I experience much less pain when using a pick, so I'm taking the path of least resistance.

 

[El_Charro]

Yeah, these have been around for decades. Luggage, briefcases. Sometimes being old is a feature!

————————
LMAO-My comment to my Wife was “I’m sure this works just like those old hard sided suitcases with spring latches from the 60s and 70s I just can’t figure it out”…

Again, directions on how to open it or shipping it without the latches snapped down would’ve been nice…

Bass should (finally/hopefully/fingers-crossed) be here tomorrow…

Thanks! \m/

 

[El_Charro]

Sascha, after trying different things, to various results, I've decided to go completely pick-style. I experience much less pain when using a pick, so I'm taking the path of least resistance.

————————
Bonus-Picks often sound more “Metal” ;-)

Kudos/props to you if you can play with a pick…

For whatever reason I can’t seem to use a pick on bass to save my life…

With a g*tar it doesn’t seem to be an issue (it just doesn’t feel “natural” to me on bass)…

I hadn’t thought of this until just now, but kind of ironic that on g*tar I struggle to make chords with my left hand and I’m better at picking on g*tar but on bass I’m usually good on my left hand, but struggle with a pick…

REALLY love that you have the option to pluck with your fingers…

Also-Idk if this will help you or not, but I have been trying to do more body weight exercises like pull ups lately…I feel like my grip strength has improved from doing dead hang isometric exercises…

NO idea if this would help you or not, but you could also consider a hand strengthener…They usually are less than $20…I probably need one of these myself soon for overall stress relief at work:

https://www.amazon.com/NIYIKOW-Stre...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

So…Lol-Keeping with the prior Futurama references), you could strengthen your hand with a good set of Clamps (or a Clamp-like device):





Thanks! \m/

 

[El_Charro]

I had one other general question for the group about flats…

Why is it that there seems to be some sort of prevailing thought/idea that you can’t use flats in a Metal band???…

I have read arguments that they aren’t “bright” enough to compete against down-tuned guitars in a band setting, but this seems to ignore the concept that you can always change your EQ settings or use a pedal…

I’m aware that there aren’t necessarily “rules” to playing music per se (especially in this genre), however I constantly ran into this when I was researching basses last year…

Is that something that is sort of in that realm of people claiming that you “need”/must have active pickups to play bass in a Metal band??? Funny story in that-I was talking to a guy who worked for GC one day when I was in there last Fall and he claimed I “needed”/could only use active pickups for that genre of music…

Granted, I love a good set of active EMGs, but when he resorted to telling me it was somehow mandatory that I have an active bass he lost any and all sense of my trust…

I eventually ended up with an active bass, but it was bc that was the axe I wanted at the time, not bc it was an active instrument per se…

Just wondering if anyone else has run into this before (the idea that you should only use rounds for playing Metal…

I get wanting to be heard in the band mix, but it seems odd that it’s almost considered “mandatory”…

As for the myth that you can’t use a P bass in a Metal band…Tell that to Geezer and Steve…

Along those lines (using a P bass for Metal)-I think the Best comment I read about a P bass was on another site forum where someone asked that question…

The post was titled: “Can a P bass handle Metal?”…

A whole lot of “no” responses until one guy said “A P bass doesn’t handle Metal…It ENSLAVES it”… <—-LMFAO…

Not sure I necessarily agree with such an enthusiastic comment, but I will probably never forget reading that…

Thanks! \m/

 

[Flamingo21]

Just wondering if anyone else has run into this before (the idea that you should only use rounds for playing Metal)
I get wanting to be heard in the band mix, but it seems odd that it’s almost considered “mandatory”…

This is just the universe testing your "ignore" function.

Be like me! Play flats in your band! Enjoy the Flat Experience!

 

[Sascha Erni]

Why is it that there seems to be some sort of prevailing thought/idea that you can’t use flats in a Metal band???…

I have read arguments that they aren’t “bright” enough to compete against down-tuned guitars in a band setting, but this seems to ignore the concept that you can always change your EQ settings or use a pedal…

I think that's mostly due to marketing, and history. I mean, 1966:

How and Entwistle popularised the stainless steel roundwound thing, a lot – apparently, or according to Wikipedia, The Who even included a fake Rotosound jingle on one of their albums. With Rotosound being a British company, their strings being readily available on the Isles, and the whole NWOBHM thing, it sort of crept in. And stuck.

Even nowadays, string makers and other companies market strings thusly, say, d'Addario XL Prosteels: “Brighter, crunchier tone”. Or Carvin claims “Stainless steel or roundwound strings, for instance, have a lot more brightness and punch than the warmer, rounder sound provided by flatwound strings.” Adjectives such as “crunchy” or “punchy” etc. sound more interesting to many metalheads than “warmer” or “rounder”.

 

[Andsvara]

There are lots of colors (tones) in the Metal rainbow. Some are achieved more easily with rounds.
The obvious answer is to have lots of basses with lots of different strings in lots of different tunings, right?

 

[Sascha Erni]

Oh, which reminds me, haven't introduced myself. Hi there, I'm Sascha from Toggenburg / Switzerland, and have been a long-time lurker on this (or rather, these) thread(s). I enjoy following the conversations, and have learned quite a lot about gear and especially playstyles over the months. Cheers.

I've played bass since the early 90s. I got into Stoner / Doom quicksmart through (early) Black Sabbath, then progressed via Cathedral, Saint Vitus and early Paradise Lost and Tiamat to more current stuff such as Purification, Electric Wizard, and – especially – Orange Goblin. (If you can call them "more current".) My personal album of the year though is somewhat out of line: delving, “Hirschbrunnen”.



(Probably because my significant other is called “Hirschbrunnen”, if you translate it from Alemannic to German.)

Bass- and band-wise, I’m in a metal covers dad-band which gigs perhaps once or twice a year, and my main band, which does all sorts of tunes and punkrocks them up some on small to medium-large stages. So, no Stoner/Doom at the moment, which is a shame. But I plan to either join a band, or found my own, in the next 12 months or so. Depending on how the pandemic progresses here in Switzerland, naturally.

Gear-wise, I'm partial to P-style basses and Orange. I play a Sandberg VS4 and MIM Precision through both a Terror Bass and a Bass Butler. My board for said punkrocky band is more SVT-centric, but has worked out well for me when jamming to Doom records, too.

So, yeah. Hi!

 

[Andsvara]

Hi (grüezi) neighbour!

 

[Andsvara]

Where did you get the Broughton HPF/LPF pedal?

 

[Sascha Erni]

Where did you get the Broughton HPF/LPF pedal?

From Josh's website. Shipping fees are a bit steep at $40 (+ import taxes), but you can always order multiple pedals in one go. They sometimes creep up on Reverb or here in the classifieds, shipping might be less expensive then. I got the MBD-2 via a seller on Reverb, and it was something like $ 15 or so to ship to CH.

 

[callofcthulhu]

I had one other general question for the group about flats…

Why is it that there seems to be some sort of prevailing thought/idea that you can’t use flats in a Metal band???…

I have read arguments that they aren’t “bright” enough to compete against down-tuned guitars in a band setting, but this seems to ignore the concept that you can always change your EQ settings or use a pedal…

I’m aware that there aren’t necessarily “rules” to playing music per se (especially in this genre), however I constantly ran into this when I was researching basses last year…

Is that something that is sort of in that realm of people claiming that you “need”/must have active pickups to play bass in a Metal band??? Funny story in that-I was talking to a guy who worked for GC one day when I was in there last Fall and he claimed I “needed”/could only use active pickups for that genre of music…

Granted, I love a good set of active EMGs, but when he resorted to telling me it was somehow mandatory that I have an active bass he lost any and all sense of my trust…

I eventually ended up with an active bass, but it was bc that was the axe I wanted at the time, not bc it was an active instrument per se…

Just wondering if anyone else has run into this before (the idea that you should only use rounds for playing Metal…

I get wanting to be heard in the band mix, but it seems odd that it’s almost considered “mandatory”…

As for the myth that you can’t use a P bass in a Metal band…Tell that to Geezer and Steve…

Along those lines (using a P bass for Metal)-I think the Best comment I read about a P bass was on another site forum where someone asked that question…

The post was titled: “Can a P bass handle Metal?”…

A whole lot of “no” responses until one guy said “A P bass doesn’t handle Metal…It ENSLAVES it”… <—-LMFAO…

Not sure I necessarily agree with such an enthusiastic comment, but I will probably never forget reading that…

Thanks! \m/

When I was playing on the reg in a thrash band my bass was strung with flats.

Now that I'm playing mostly with a psych/soul band, I switched to rounds.

shag the police.

 

[Flamingo21]

For me it's as simple as this: playing roundwounds feels like work.

So if anyone's paying me to play bass (they must be crazy) I'll happily play roundwounds if they prefer. Otherwise, no thanks.

Of course, if a bandmate has written a song, and it contains a convincing slap part that really enhances the song, I'd pluck up my slap skills and get rounds and make it work.

 

[Flamingo21]

From Josh's website. Shipping fees are a bit steep at $40 (+ import taxes), but you can always order multiple pedals in one go.

Yes, I paid around that for shipping my Broughton HPF. Maybe I should have ordered multiple pedals as well, didn't think of it at the time.

 

[br1qbat]

I think that's mostly due to marketing, and history. I mean, 1966:

View attachment 4453282

How and Entwistle popularised the stainless steel roundwound thing, a lot – apparently, or according to Wikipedia, The Who even included a fake Rotosound jingle on one of their albums. With Rotosound being a British company, their strings being readily available on the Isles, and the whole NWOBHM thing, it sort of crept in. And stuck.

Even nowadays, string makers and other companies market strings thusly, say, d'Addario XL Prosteels: “Brighter, crunchier tone”. Or Carvin claims “Stainless steel or roundwound strings, for instance, have a lot more brightness and punch than the warmer, rounder sound provided by flatwound strings.” Adjectives such as “crunchy” or “punchy” etc. sound more interesting to many metalheads than “warmer” or “rounder”.

Entwistle essentially was the impetus behind the roundwound bass string. He had a close relationship with Rotosound and the classic roto "66" set [IIRC] is the set/design Entwistle and Rotosound came up with. He had visited their factory and had discussed with their designers what we was looking for.

The jingle was part of their mock pirate radio concept album "The Who Sell Out" and the band came up with many ads and faux station identification to pepper in between the songs on the album. Sorta a proto-"Songs for the Deaf". A cool album.

 

[YawningJorin]

I had one other general question for the group about flats…

Why is it that there seems to be some sort of prevailing thought/idea that you can’t use flats in a Metal band???…

I have read arguments that they aren’t “bright” enough to compete against down-tuned guitars in a band setting, but this seems to ignore the concept that you can always change your EQ settings or use a pedal…

I’m aware that there aren’t necessarily “rules” to playing music per se (especially in this genre), however I constantly ran into this when I was researching basses last year…

Is that something that is sort of in that realm of people claiming that you “need”/must have active pickups to play bass in a Metal band??? Funny story in that-I was talking to a guy who worked for GC one day when I was in there last Fall and he claimed I “needed”/could only use active pickups for that genre of music…

Granted, I love a good set of active EMGs, but when he resorted to telling me it was somehow mandatory that I have an active bass he lost any and all sense of my trust…

I eventually ended up with an active bass, but it was bc that was the axe I wanted at the time, not bc it was an active instrument per se…

Just wondering if anyone else has run into this before (the idea that you should only use rounds for playing Metal…

I get wanting to be heard in the band mix, but it seems odd that it’s almost considered “mandatory”…

As for the myth that you can’t use a P bass in a Metal band…Tell that to Geezer and Steve…

Along those lines (using a P bass for Metal)-I think the Best comment I read about a P bass was on another site forum where someone asked that question…

The post was titled: “Can a P bass handle Metal?”…

A whole lot of “no” responses until one guy said “A P bass doesn’t handle Metal…It ENSLAVES it”… <—-LMFAO…

Not sure I necessarily agree with such an enthusiastic comment, but I will probably never forget reading that…

Thanks! \m/

Modern forms of metal seem to mostly have the bass be present in low bass frequencies along with the clanky highs you can get from roundwounds, just following the guitar to fatten the sound. Going by Flea's philosophy, i.e. the bass is just there to make the guitar sound good, it works (even if Flea is in another genre). But I find this approach lacklustre. I think a lot of bassists do. It's like having the bass just be glue holding other parts together -- most commonly we talk about bass being the link between rhythm and melody.

I'm a selfish megalomaniac and I want the bass to be the centrepiece to build the rest of the song around rather than a necessitated afterthought. So I prefer flats with their rich mids. I still have enough bass and treble to have a sound that doesn't sound deliberately muted. Which is not to say I have that same high-end clank. And yeah, this style won't sit as well with a modern metal guitar sound, they're not made for each other. Changing the bass sound requires changing the guitar sound, and I'd wager writing style too, because you're shifting who's responsible for which frequency ranges too. Prevalence of rhythm guitars may be a contributing factor to this shift. The rhythm role is filled by the bass in bands such as Iron Maiden and Sleep, but if you'd add a rhythm guitarist to those bands (yes, that means a third guitarist in Iron Maiden's case ) you'd have to drastically change the bass sound to fit it in, and with that you wouldn't have the same mids presence that enables the bass to be the melodic driving force, restricting you to bass frequencies and what little clankery you can get your roundwound-calloused fingers on.

I'd imagine the "loudness wars" has pushed producers to shift their methodology too, contributing to the change of bass style through the years, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to speak much on that front.

 

[kleinenenten]

I've found that flats actually work better in my metal mixes - even "clanky" ones. It seemed that distorted rounds always got lost in the highs with the guitars, but the flats instantly made me more present in the mix. Sure, I don't have TONS of highs in my tone, but I have enough to be heard and articulate. Of course, it's been a while since I've jammed with anybody, and when I did, the guitarists actually wanted the BAND to sound good, and not just them. Which goes a long way to having a great tone.

 

[Kaa]

I've played bass since the early 90s. I got into Stoner / Doom quicksmart through (early) Black Sabbath, then progressed via Cathedral, Saint Vitus and early Paradise Lost and Tiamat to more current stuff such as Purification, Electric Wizard, and – especially – Orange Goblin. (If you can call them "more current".) My personal album of the year though is somewhat out of line: delving, “Hirschbrunnen”.

My "Time Traveling Blues" CD never leaves my car.