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Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

#58,001
And more Rat talk, I kept researching options today. Really thinking my Iron Pig is the best solution so far. Which is great because I already own one! Though I'm not typically a fan of Mr. Excane's demos, he's one of the few that I've heard demo both Blower Box and Iron Pig, and I can say that I definitely prefer the tones of the Iron Pig to the Blower Box in his video. Far less fizzy, which was my main complaint of the Blower Box the first go round. Maybe I should just keep the Iron Pig on the board in lieu of the Dunwich DIY HM-2, as it's more likely I'll need a Rat over an HM-2. Of course, I could keep both, but 7 dirt boxes on a single board may be overkill, even for me. I'm actually trying to downsize the board, but it's not working!

Even further thoughts: The Cat Tail seems more tempting to me in the limited bass demos I've seen. Anybody use one of those? Thoughts on the 2nd distortion mod? It seems like there would be volume jumps if there are significantly different levels of distortion between settings 1 and 2. If that's the case, stock seems to be the option for me, or maybe with a clean blend.
 
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#58,005
ConfoundedBridg said:
welp...

Had my first incidence of stolen gear today. My first bass AND MY PEDALBOARD

Not a good day to say the least :rollno:
Click to expand...

It’s a little bulky, but if you want this I’ll send it your way.
549D68EA-9CCB-41CB-8E9B-E281E0AB7CC1.jpeg
 
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#58,006
This is my Rat
upload_2022-1-30_11-33-8.jpeg

Gremlin Machine Works makes a killer product.
System Collapse mkII Deluxe
“Deluxe version of SYSTEM COLLAPSE is adding a separate clean volume control, especially for bass guitar (killer on guitar also, and downtuned axes). This retains original signal content, and can also improve the sound quality going into pedals that come later in the signal chain.

This is the ultimate fully decked out RAT-type pedal...we cannot make it any better than this without going totally overboard on extra features.

Dual GAIN modes (2nd footswitch activated), NOS LM300-series op amp, 3-way CLIP mode selector, Bass/Treble controls, independent CLEAN volume knob capable of 110% original output (can also be used just as a clean boost!), and as usual it has pedalboard friendly top-mounted jacks. You can isolate or balance the levels of the MASTER dirt knob and CLEAN volume knob to fully control your optimum sound.”

Im not affiliated with Gremlin in any way, but I’ll sing his praises whenever possible. This thing is awesome on its own, but now I feed it a little Muff and it’s next level.
 
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#58,008
Definitely trust the quality of build. Don't doubt it's great if my gain structures is any indicator. I have a feeling it'd just come down to the tuning of the EQ on it for whether you'd prefer it to another.

@crunchysock how's that Sunn preamp pedal? I was real tempted.
 
#58,009
Novarocker said:
Definitely trust the quality of build. Don't doubt it's great if my gain structures is any indicator. I have a feeling it'd just come down to the tuning of the EQ on it for whether you'd prefer it to another.

@crunchysock how's that Sunn preamp pedal? I was real tempted.
Click to expand...

It's great. I don't have a Model T to A/B them, but it sounded really good. The only reason it's not still on my board is because I replaced it with a Tube Beta hybrid from Correct Sound.
 
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#58,010
More Rat talk: there's all the talk of the LM308 opamp, but what kind is it (i.e., germanium, silicon, MOSFET, etc.)? I ask because the Iron Pig has selectable diodes, but none are labeled LM308... Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something entirely?

Also, important note: after messing around with my Iron Pig some more, I noticed that at volume, it does sound FAR different than my Pharaoh Supreme (which it should, thankfully!). So I tweaked more, and got another tone I liked that is certainly distinct from the fuzz. Now that I'm not trying to make the Iron Pig work in a "doom fuzz" sort of setting, I'm really starting to enjoy it for what it is. Currently, it's a slightly aggressive heavy tone with just a little bit of treble bite, but plenty of body and definition in the low registers. Digging it, and it may replace my HM-2 on the board simply because it's more likely to get used. This makes me lean towards the Fuzzrocious Cat Tail as my next Rat. Haven't tried that brand yet, but I always hear good things. Might finally be time!
 
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#58,012
kleinenenten said:
More Rat talk: there's all the talk of the LM308 opamp, but what kind is it (i.e., germanium, silicon, MOSFET, etc.)? I ask because the Iron Pig has selectable diodes, but none are labeled LM308... Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something entirely?

Also, important note: after messing around with my Iron Pig some more, I noticed that at volume, it does sound FAR different than my Pharaoh Supreme (which it should, thankfully!). So I tweaked more, and got another tone I liked that is certainly distinct from the fuzz. Now that I'm not trying to make the Iron Pig work in a "doom fuzz" sort of setting, I'm really starting to enjoy it for what it is. Currently, it's a slightly aggressive heavy tone with just a little bit of treble bite, but plenty of body and definition in the low registers. Digging it, and it may replace my HM-2 on the board simply because it's more likely to get used. This makes me lean towards the Fuzzrocious Cat Tail as my next Rat. Haven't tried that brand yet, but I always hear good things. Might finally be time!
Click to expand...

The rat opamps and clipping diodes are two very different things. In my opinion the lack of an LM308 opamp isn't a dealbreaker. The clipping diodes whether SI, GE or LED will make more of a difference in the sound.

Check this out...
ProCo Rat LM308 vs OP07 Op-Amp Chip - Does It Drone? - YouTube
 
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#58,013
I think @NNNN and @Robot.G are correct. See the "myths" section here: https://thejhsshow.com/articles/history-and-timeline-of-the-proco-rat-pedal

Also note the technical data about the "difference" between the LM308 and OP07 opamp. (Basically, there isn't any difference.) Once again @Robot.G is correct about the diodes making the real difference. Interesting story from the above link:

An employee named Gerry Carpenter (mostly referred to as Grape by employees and friends) loved building effects circuits and had stumbled across a Craig Anderton article on clipping diodes that gave him an idea. As a guitarist who plugged directly into an already distorted Marshall amp, the RAT was useless to him (it just cluttered the signal and added too much gain) so he removed the traditional silicon 1N4148 diodes from a production RAT2 and replaced them with a pair of the RED 5mm status indicator LEDs from ProCo’s inventory.

Neat!
 
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#58,014
Alright, I did some quick research:
There are at least 2 "308" chips (LM308 and UA308). It seems early versions of the Iron Pig use the LM308, since the current page lists that as of May 2019, the UA308 chip will be used. General consensus is that they sound pretty much identical. Also, the LM308 is NOT one of the diodes (as previously mentioned!), but is an opamp. (I plead ignorance as to what those differences are, but they are apparently significant!) It seems that the Rat tone is from overdriving the LM308 opamp, and that the NC (no clipping) option on my Iron Pig omits diodes and uses the LM308 only for distortion. As noted earlier, yes, the diodes have a large effect on the tone. So far, I'm digging the LED/Sil combo of diodes, though I could certainly use most of the diode options of the Iron Pig. I've been tooling around mostly with LED/Sil, MOSFET, LED, and No Clipping and all are slightly different shades of greatness. I find the germanium and SIL diodes a little lacking in definition, though I also haven't spent much time with them. They're probably fine when tweaked!

Thanks all for keeping me informed! Never hurts to learn something about your gear.

My HM-2 is now off the main board, so I went and messed with my Throat Locust (HM-2) on the second board. Tweaked it, and got a pretty great low gain tone out of it. Gonna keep it there for now while I continue to debate the Rat options.
 
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#58,015
lucas303 said:
I think @NNNN and @Robot.G are correct. See the "myths" section here: https://thejhsshow.com/articles/history-and-timeline-of-the-proco-rat-pedal

Also note the technical data about the "difference" between the LM308 and OP07 opamp. (Basically, there isn't any difference.) Once again @Robot.G is correct about the diodes making the real difference. Interesting story from the above link:

An employee named Gerry Carpenter (mostly referred to as Grape by employees and friends) loved building effects circuits and had stumbled across a Craig Anderton article on clipping diodes that gave him an idea. As a guitarist who plugged directly into an already distorted Marshall amp, the RAT was useless to him (it just cluttered the signal and added too much gain) so he removed the traditional silicon 1N4148 diodes from a production RAT2 and replaced them with a pair of the RED 5mm status indicator LEDs from ProCo’s inventory.

Neat!
Click to expand...
Once again, I ain't smart when it comes to this stuff. What do the LEDs do differently? Is that why there are LEDs in some Rats or something? Did it lead to a new version of Rat? I really don't know much about Rats except that many people have them, love them, and make them sound awesome. So I'm trying to make mine sound awesome too!
 
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#58,016
kleinenenten said:
Once again, I ain't smart when it comes to this stuff. What do the LEDs do differently? Is that why there are LEDs in some Rats or something? Did it lead to a new version of Rat? I really don't know much about Rats except that many people have them, love them, and make them sound awesome. So I'm trying to make mine sound awesome too!
Click to expand...
I don't know anything about this stuff either, but I'd recommend reading that JHS article. Using the LED did lead to a new rat: the TurboRat.

I don't think any one is necessarily better than another. Just depends on the use case. Like that guy Grape who had no use for the traditional rat but once he put the LED in it was useful for him...meanwhile tons of people still have use for the traditional rat instead. Having options like on that Iron Pig seems ideal!
 
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#58,017
lucas303 said:
I don't know anything about this stuff either, but I'd recommend reading that JHS article. Using the LED did lead to a new rat: the TurboRat.

I don't think any one is necessarily better than another. Just depends on the use case. Like that guy Grape who had no use for the traditional rat but once he put the LED in it was useful for him...meanwhile tons of people still have use for the traditional rat instead. Having options like on that Iron Pig seems ideal!
Click to expand...
It is! I almost always end up gravitating towards rather tweakable pedals. For better or worse, they work for me, and I can pretty much always find a tone I like that I can't get via other means.
 
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#58,018
I was just about to post the JHS Rat link: https://thejhsshow.com/articles/history-and-timeline-of-the-proco-rat-pedal

(Again, not an expert). Diodes are just one type of component that can be manipulated (in this case clipped) to create distortion. Different types of diodes will create different flavors of distortion. In addition to Ge and Si, LED's are a third kind of diode (the D in LED stands for diode) and so they can also be clipped.
 
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#58,019
lucas303 said:
I don't know anything about this stuff either, but I'd recommend reading that JHS article.
Click to expand...
Quick summary: unless it has another identifier in the name itself (like TurboRAT or Juggernaut or something), a Rat is a Rat is a Rat...

Really, though, cool article! Thanks for sharing. And as with so many things, so much of the perceived value is bunk. So many people think their pedal is "better" or "different" when it's simply not!
 
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