Suggestions on where to go from here?

[TeamScorpioRI]

If you are clipping the amp (what I assume you mean by redlining the amp), then the signal coming off your pedal/preamp is too strong and needs to be backed off. The issue is, at an 8ohm load, you are not getting enough power from your amp to accommodate the band. This can be solved a couple ways.

1) Bridge your amp. Its actually simple, but requires a specific cable with your amp. It's called a "Banana" plug. Basically 2 posts that go into both of the red connectors on the back of your amp. Basically this bridges the power amps together and delivers more power to your cab. Here is an example of what you would need (assuming the cab is speakon) Invalid Link Removed

2) Add a cab. This would accomplish 2 things. It would lower the impedance of the load to the amp, in essence allowing more power to get to your speakers. It would also allow the speakers to move more air. This will not increase the volume, but will give you more presence.

You could always do both, but the cable is the less expensive option at this point. If it works, awesome! That gets you what you need for under $100. If not, you can add the cab and still bridge the amp.

 

[jlepre]

Like others have said. Take out all those pedals that are sucking the tone. Then add in as needed. I personally do not use any pedals.

 

[Oobly]

First thing to try is bridge mono on the Crown. If it's like the XLS I own you'll need to go into the options to set it to bridge mono mode as well as using a bridge mode speakon cable. That'll boost the output from 275W to 1000W into your 8 ohm cab. If it's still not enough then consider a second cab, but try this first.

Your problem could also be in the mids, not the bass, but that's pure speculation on my part at this point. The GIO and GK cab may both be a little "scooped" sounding, from my experience of an SR506 and GK amp and cab. I know it's a bit of a theme here, but when I tried a P bass straight into my preamp (with Crown XLS into fEARless cab) it completed my "tone quest".

 

[dkelley]

I'd go over there a bit. Maybe a change of pace.... it looks nice over there, new scenery!

 

[Luke the Fluke]

This. And, the power might even be lower than 250 watts as the input sensitivity of the Crown XTi is such that it needs 1.4 volts to drive it to its rated power. The Sansamp, as good as it is (I'm a big Sansamp fan), provides less output than that. I've only had good results using the Sansamp as a pre into power amps having 0.7 V input sensitivity like the Crest Prolites, etc.

I was wondering that too

 

[waveman]

Sell the Crown, get a good cheap class D head like a Peavey MiniMax or a TC or Fender Rumble V3 500. Keep the sansamp for backup.

 

[Nephilymbass]

Hey Guys,

I work a job with a limited income, and have paved my bass playing ways by purchasing second hand and cheap for my entire life. Still in this position, however i have managed to save up enough money to consider upgrading part of my setup. I would like to draw from the infinite wealth of opinions!

Currently rocking - Ibanez GIO6, into board w/Envelope filter -> ebs comp -> Radial bigshot ABY to LS2 w/Keeley Red Dirt + dry, second split to a Proco Jugganaught -> old chorus, all blended with another LS2 into my Sansamp PBDDI, into a crown PowerAmp (1000w @ 2ohm), into a GKneo212 (600w 8ohm).

Issues that i find when I'm playing is;
- Not happy with tone. Spent hours tweaking nobs on the sansamp and working the digital EQ on the crown amp. Still not getting the "fatness" to the tone in the lows I'm seeking without overpowering the poweramp and redlining at "lower levels" to have a fatter tone.
- Drummer still can drown me out while im red-lining the PowerAmp and competing with an AC30 and Marshal Half Stack
- Limited to using speakon/xlr/speaker wiring only for outputs on PowerAmp
- No matter what i set the phase to on the split, i still have a volume drop when i "blend" the A + B channel on my last LS2. Only been able to effectively set up a stereo chain with select-able channels when i wanted parallel signals

What i cant figure out is, am i not happy because i am getting a sub-par tone that's not cutting or blending too well with the band, or is it a matter of volume?
Should i look at getting a "real" bass amp with more outpout/tone possibilities, or buy another cab to run with the 212 to make up for the little extra oomph im missing?

As much as i would love to pack my gear and head to a shop to try out stuff, I would feel terrible knowing I'm going in to not buy anything. Hopefully one (or more) of you beautiful people have been in the same situation and can point me in the right direction.

DeadHead.

As far as buying gear I’d probably replace the bass first.

What particular crown power amp are you using? I used a crown xls1500 for a couple years. For those amps you have to use a special bridging cable to bridge the amp and get full power. So there’s a pretty good chance that your cab is only getting whatever one side of that power amp is putting out at 8 ohms even if the amp is saying it’s in bridged mono mode. Which might be as little as 100- 200w. Another issue might be the signal level hitting the crown. You want it to get line level signal not instrument level. That’ll make a huge difference in volume and your signal to noise ratio

 

[DeadheadSteve]

Awesome. Thanks guys. General consensus seems to be to get another 8 ohm cab to utilize untapped amp power, and to get a better bass and improve technique to improve tone.

Only issue is finding another gk212 around here, they're rare as hens teeth being sold second hand unless they're broken or had the snot thrashed out of them.
Time to do some research and see if anyone's paired something a bit more common successfully

Deadhead.

 

[LT131]

Awesome. Thanks guys. General consensus seems to be to get another 8 ohm cab to utilize untapped amp power, and to get a better bass and improve technique to improve tone.

Only issue is finding another gk212 around here, they're rare as hens teeth being sold second hand unless they're broken or had the snot thrashed out of them.
Time to do some research and see if anyone's paired something a bit more common successfully

Deadhead.

Where is here?

 

[DeadheadSteve]

Where is here?

Ah! Western Australia, in one of the most isolated capital cities in the world!

What particular crown power amp are you using?

I'm using a crown xti2000 I believe? Stereo 1k watt at 2ohm, internal bridging and eq with limiter.

 

[LT131]

Ah! Western Australia, in one of the most isolated capital cities in the world!


I'm using a crown xti2000 I believe? Stereo 1k watt at 2ohm, internal bridging and eq with limiter.

OK then, I am in the deep south and thought I was in the middle of nowhere. Well if you want to fly 8000 miles I know where one is!

By the way I use one too and think they are pretty good cabs. Get your amp bridged right before you spend bucks on anything.

 

[Balog]

You have the attenuators on the Crown all the way up right?

 

[Redbrangus]

I'm using a crown xti2000

Ah... I had you figured for an XTi 1000; a 2000 is a different story. You probably don't really need to mono that, it's got 475 watts/ch into 8 ohms and 800 watts/ch into 4 ohms. If you were to mono that thing, it's rated at 2000 watts into 4 ohms. That could be hazardous to your speaker's health if you're not careful. But good luck finding a second cab...that would probably solve at least the horsepower part of your issues.

 

[LowFactor]

Are you using the 1/4” or xlr output from the sans amp to feed the power amp? I believe the xlr is a mic level output meantnt to be used as a DI to feed the mic in of a console while the 1/4” is actually a line level out signal meant to feed to a power amp.... different impedance between the two. Try the 1/4” if you have been using the xlr.

 

[Redbrangus]

I believe the OP stated that he was "red-lining" the amp, which I interpreted to mean that he was seeing a red clipping light on the input level indicator...an indication that there is plenty of drive level.

 

[Nephilymbass]

Ah! Western Australia, in one of the most isolated capital cities in the world!


I'm using a crown xti2000 I believe? Stereo 1k watt at 2ohm, internal bridging and eq with limiter.

K I’m not sure about that one but I’d check the manual because I know for the xls series you can put the amp in bridged mono mode on the front but it still won’t run bridged without the right speaker cable. You have to have a speakon cable with a 4 connector end wired the way it says in the manual(can’t remember off the top of my head. The typically 2 connector speakon ends won’t allow you to bridge the xls series amps. Also does your sans amp have a signal level switch to switch between line level and instrument level? I know a couple of them do but some don’t. That might be part of the issue.

 

[Balog]

I believe the OP stated that he was "red-lining" the amp, which I interpreted to mean that he was seeing a red clipping light on the input level indicator...an indication that there is plenty of drive level.

A sans amp shouldn’t be able to clip a Crown, unless the input attenuators are down. Or that’s my understanding anyway.

 

[LowFactor]

Also talking about a 600 ohm vs a 1Kohm. Signal impedance.

 

[Redbrangus]

unless the input attenuators are down

I don't think your understanding of what an input attenuator does is fully informed.

 

[Balog]

I don't think your understanding of what an input attenuator does is fully informed.

That is certainly possible. It’s been a long time since I used a PA amp. I do recall that a common issue was people thinking the attenuators were volume knobs and not wanting to run them all the way up.