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Suicide and those quietly considering it

tastybasslines said:
Oh, and another "dad" will never be better that you. They need you. Now and forever.

You need to take that to heart. Really. Even if you want everything to just all go away, for now, stay for your kids. Please don't leave them without a father. You have that to live for. Death is always an option. Try living for them for a while. You might eventually come around and get those dark thoughts out of your mind.

This is coming from someone who tried to OD on pills and just passed out for a few hours. I also was hanging off the outside of a chain link fence for a while, trying to find a semi to jump in front of, in case the fall didn't kill me (and I didn't want to hurt someone in a smaller car when my corpse hit them). The police came and ended that one.

Then I had two huge bottles of pills (a lot more than my first OD attempt, so it would've done the trick) and a train ticket so that someone would find a dead body and have trouble finding next of kin. On my way to the train station I randomly ran into an old friend. We had lost touch, but used to be really close. She wanted to catch up so we got lunch somewhere.

I realized I would really hurt a lot of people. I held onto the fact that some people really love me. You need to understand that you are loved, and then you need to know that people love you. First you understand. Then you know.

Hold off on it for now. It's always an option. That won't change. Be well.

-Adam
 
I went to my parent's house today to pay them rent (we're renting out a condo they own). I had to borrow $500 and use some tip money to cover the rest. My dad was happy that I paid him but my mom was worried about the way I had to borrow the money to cover rent. Work has been tough and I have been depressed here lately. I feel that no one cares and that I'm a complete failure at providing for my family. My dad was so happy to get the money and completely ignored the look on my face of defeat. My mom noticed it right away but neglected to say anything.

Then, as I was leaving their house, I heard my dad tell me that he wasn't done talking. I turned around and he said to not come over and get on his computer because he had 40 viruses on it and it cost him money to repair it. He was blaming me for his computer getting infected. I never get on his computer anymore. When I did I just checked Facebook and Talkbass. I have a phone for that when I'm over at his house. It just goes to show that they really don't care about me, just as long as they get their monthly rent check. Who cares if I was contemplating taking my own life on the way over. Not them. They like the money. This world is cold and I hate my life! If I end my life, my wife and kids can find a better dad that can raise them and meet their needs better than I can. Yeah, he won't be their natural dad but so what. It'll be a better dad.

My wife, who's out of town with the kids, is having a blast at her parent's house. The kids love it there. They're so happy. She doesn't even call. I usually call her. Today I told her that if something doesn't change then I was going to change it by taking my own life. I don't think she takes me seriously. I don't know if I take myself seriously but, if something doesn't change, I'll change it myself. I do mean that. Something's got to change.

So things has gotten worse since you last wrote in this thread, I can see. I implore you to please go see a psychiatrist! And do it NOW!!! You have to get serious help for this, since no one around you either don't , can't or won't know what you're dealing with.
So your dad only want your money and accuses you of things you're innocent of? Your mom neglected you and your wife do not take you seriously? Well, screw them! Only thing that matters now is you and your survival! You have to take the time to deal with this now, no matter what the enviroment (family, friends, work, the world) tries to impose on you. Take yourself seriously and get serious help! You need help to break this and you know it, and have known it yourself for a long time. On May 28th you wrote: "Yes, I need some help". Now is the time to go get that help!
 
I've been in counseling of various kinds for many years and I've been on every med there is.

I've done the whole exercise-as-an-escape-mechanism thing.

None of it works. When I'm exhausted, whether I've accomplished anything or not, the chaotic agony is still there. When my brain is fried after an intense afternoon of self-scrutinizing in therapy, it's just that much worse, and feels just that much more insurmountable. When my brain is foggy and thoughts are indistinct under the haze of psychopharmacology, the only thing thing that feels strong and makes sense is pain.

It is the floor stretching out underneath every experience I have. It's the sky, and the earth and oceans. It contains and contaminates every perception I have ever known.

I don't know what to do without it, and I don't know how I would deal with life and the world if it ever disappeared. If I have learned one thing, however, it is that it will never leave me alone.

Lucky me, eh. I'm just....tired. I need real, meaningful rest. I don't need platitudes, encouragement, sympathy, or empathy. I don't need friends, family, love, or kindness. I don't need any of it, and I don't want any of it.
 
I've been in counseling of various kinds for many years and I've been on every med there is.

I've done the whole exercise-as-an-escape-mechanism thing.

None of it works. When I'm exhausted, whether I've accomplished anything or not, the chaotic agony is still there. When my brain is fried after an intense afternoon of self-scrutinizing in therapy, it's just that much worse, and feels just that much more insurmountable. When my brain is foggy and thoughts are indistinct under the haze of psychopharmacology, the only thing thing that feels strong and makes sense is pain.

I don't need platitudes, encouragement, sympathy, or empathy.

I haven't felt the need to post in this thread because this guy's taken all the words right out of my mouth. I've read all the posts made by him here and I think this guys is the only one who's posted here who actually has a clue how someone like me feels.

I've also tried the therapy, countless medications, and whole heath and fitness lifestyle. My experience is exactly the same, none of it made a damn bit of difference.

There's a lot of advice being thrown around here by people on the outside looking in, who actually think they know what's what. But from my perspective these people are all clueless.

This may sould a bit harsh, but to the OP and to some other people who've posted, if someone wants to commit suicide, it's really none of your business. It's there personal choice and are free to make it. And if your response to this is that I must not know what it's like to be the family of someone who's taken there own life, well you're wrong. I've had an uncle and cousin do it, and it's really none of my business as to why they chose to do it.


hey dude guy. I'm sorry a lot of stuff is really ****** right now. seriously, get to a mental health professional.

More uselss advice from an outsider who thinks he has the answers, but in reality hasn't a clue what's going on.

Hey Mr. expert, when going to see the metal health professional doesn't work, than what do you suggest, huh?
 
This may sould a bit harsh, but to the OP and to some other people who've posted, if someone wants to commit suicide, it's really none of your business. It's there personal choice and are free to make it. And if your response to this is that I must not know what it's like to be the family of someone who's taken there own life, well you're wrong. I've had an uncle and cousin do it, and it's really none of my business as to why they chose to do it.

As another rank outsider, I say this: you might be correct from your standpoint, but, given that members here view each other as pals, if one of our pals posts here stating his suicidal tendencies, it is instinctive that some of us will try to help in some way, generally by giving advice in the best way we can. Your post insinuates that we're incorrect in doing that by interfering.

Again, I'm sure that this doesn't apply to everyone, but I've heard many people who have experienced suicidal thoughts say that they felt they needed to have someone to talk to. This goes against the theory of not interfering in something that is 'none of our business'.

This is a sensitive issue and I don't want it to become a meta-debate relating to the actual purpose of the thread, but I don't think this thread is entirely meaningless.
 
I haven't felt the need to post in this thread because this guy's taken all the words right out of my mouth. I've read all the posts made by him here and I think this guys is the only one who's posted here who actually has a clue how someone like me feels.

I've also tried the therapy, countless medications, and whole heath and fitness lifestyle. My experience is exactly the same, none of it made a damn bit of difference.

There's a lot of advice being thrown around here by people on the outside looking in, who actually think they know what's what. But from my perspective these people are all clueless.

This may sould a bit harsh, but to the OP and to some other people who've posted, if someone wants to commit suicide, it's really none of your business. It's there personal choice and are free to make it. And if your response to this is that I must not know what it's like to be the family of someone who's taken there own life, well you're wrong. I've had an uncle and cousin do it, and it's really none of my business as to why they chose to do it.

Simple approach is not to take part in any discussions then, seeing how clueless everyone else is, if you don't want help, don't take it. Or of course, you could take the "woe is me, you don't understand me" sentiment. However, that's hardly the most productive of approaches either. I'll keep in mind the comment about people here being clueless, clearly saying that asking for help can help, is an ignorant and crass idea, thankfully I won't act on what you believe.

Being the only one who you deem understanding of your situation, doesn't mean that is the only way people experience suicidal depression. Of course, some people just don't want help or don't want to get better.

On the flip side of that, some people don't think there is any help, they don't seek any help because they don't think there is any there, they'd rather stay strong, stiff upper lip and all that. I know a number of people for whom help has worked, would they have killed themselves otherwise? Who knows, thankfully they didn't go that far. I also know some who kept quiet, acted happily day to day and killed themselves. I also wouldn't make assumptions as to other peoples experiences.

Sure, people can do what they want, sure, to an extent it isn't anyone elses business. But I won't brush this stuff under the carpet nor will I ever ignore it.
 
Simple approach is not to take part in any discussions then, seeing how clueless everyone else is, if you don't want help, don't take it. Or of course, you could take the "woe is me, you don't understand me" sentiment. However, that's hardly the most productive of approaches either. I'll keep in mind the comment about people here being clueless, clearly saying that asking for help can help, is an ignorant and crass idea, thankfully I won't act on what you believe.

Being the only one who you deem understanding of your situation, doesn't mean that is the only way people experience suicidal depression. Of course, some people just don't want help or don't want to get better.

On the flip side of that, some people don't think there is any help, they don't seek any help because they don't think there is any there, they'd rather stay strong, stiff upper lip and all that. I know a number of people for whom help has worked, would they have killed themselves otherwise? Who knows, thankfully they didn't go that far. I also know some who kept quiet, acted happily day to day and killed themselves. I also wouldn't make assumptions as to other peoples experiences.

Sure, people can do what they want, sure, to an extent it isn't anyone elses business. But I won't brush this stuff under the carpet nor will I ever ignore it.

Honestly it's more or less surprizing/numbing to see that in most events of problems people refer to "therapy", "help", whatever.

Does it really work? I mean really?

I feel like I'm probably in the minority of those that deny that medication is an answer, but I'll break down some of my logic and put it out on display:

Say you do go to see a doctor. Likely you'll be examined the way I was; Ask how your home life is, ask what your work life is, "are you happy?", "what are you dreams/aspirations if you were given no limitations?", probably do some examination of your smarts/comprehensions, and have you fill out a chart of what you feel people's "understanding" of you is.

So let's break this down."are you happy?"; would I go to you if I were?
"how's your home life"; people born into families of regular habits/personalities/traits, really can give no warning signs unless they're in fear for their lives. They're just used to the conditions they've grown up with, no matter really how clearly people from the outside can see.
"your work life": most people hate their jobs; nuff said. People to go work to have the resources to eat; not because they feel compelled to go to it.

"Dreams/aspirations": well, most people have probably gotten their taste of reality or limitations. I once had a depressed friend. I asked what he wanted to do with his life. What did I hear? "To fly like superman and live in the matrix." Yea, real winner here. Smarts: can't really fix that. Not unless they go through something more depressing than what they have; getting an education is no easy break.

They they have the list of questions; they're all more or less absolute answer style questions, they're just more fuel to the fire to contribute to a diagnosis.

So this leads to a general idea of what the person has "wrong" with them. But nobody really knows. For all you know, the depressed person is an ***hole. Hard to work with/talk with/hang around without getting in a mood/consistently angry/judgmental.

So then it comes down to the drugs. But if you're drugging an ***hole for depression, and the ***hole doesn't really think there's anything wrong with him, guess what? You're just enhancing that negative facet of his personality, which only really gets worse with age.

It really looks like a lucrative industry to make a quick buck based on the perception from people around you that you're smarter than they are.

Just a few thoughts on our current psychiatric ideas on how to treat others.

SMALL UPDATE:

Lets say you DO get therapy. You go into maybe an out patient program, or start going five days a week for several hours out of the day if you are unemployed. You aren't the greatest, but damn, those drugs work; they work so good, in fact, that you listen to people talk about how great you can be, what you can do, what a great person you are, etc etc etc.

Let's say for good measure you even go out and buy up a whole foot full of PUA material to study.

So while you're on this brainwashing power trip, you start to believe what they tell you; that you're really the greatest man, or one of many, to walk the earth. Not only that, but that you're Don Juan because you know how great you are, and because you taught yourself to break out of your shell, the ladies will know, too.

Three months later? "ugh man things haven't been working out; maybe I should _______"
 
I feel that no one cares and that I'm a complete failure at providing for my family.

You only fail when you give up, man. You can create change, but ending your life is not the change you need. It is the greater man who marches on through adversity and tries to make positive changes for the better. A man who never gives up can never fail.

So things has gotten worse since you last wrote in this thread, I can see. I implore you to please go see a psychiatrist! And do it NOW!!! You have to get serious help for this, since no one around you either don't , can't or won't know what you're dealing with.

And this, man! You need some help getting your head straight. There is nothing wrong with that, we all need some help at times, and it can happen that there isnt someone around to provide that help. I strongly recommend seeking someone who can.

Hey Mr. expert, when going to see the metal health professional doesn't work, than what do you suggest, huh?

Find a different mental health professional. There are different approaches to these situations.
You say that we speak as outsiders, but what you dont know is that some of us have been there before.
When a friend comes to me and tells me theyre contemplating suicide youre not going to hear me say "Go ahead bro, living is your choice, end it if you want"

I feel like I'm probably in the minority of those that deny that medication is an answer, but I'll break down some of my logic and put it out on display

Help does not always equate to medication.
 
In other words, you feel that you need it. You've become an addict to it. What you're doing is what we call where I come from (Norway) for: "cuddle with discontent". Bad habit.

No doubt. I never said it was rational.

in the professional field I've found it's always the first offered, however. There is a reason why therapists, doctors, and dentists state they offer a practice rather than an answer.

And that is exactly the problem. For a certain quantity of mental health patients, there is no answer or cure, but there are variably effective coping mechanisms.

There is a smaller quantity for whom known and well-practiced therapy methods are not effective. New techniques and updates to old techniques continue to be developed, but there are no promises.

For me there has been no pill to offer even the smallest degree of relief. Therapy has deepened my understanding of the problem, but even armed with greater knowledge I feel no better equipped to handle it. In many ways I feel worse off for knowing, because I know how resistant has been to treatment. I have no hope for recovery or even just a reduction of symptoms. The only thing I can think of that I haven't tried is electro-convulsive therapy.

I work hard. I take care of myself and my child. She is happy, healthy, and successful. I am none of the above. I keep trudging on with counseling and medication, trying to find an effective combination. But now, 25 years into it....there's nothing to show for it except for the fact that I'm still alive. And I have no reason to suspect that will ever change. So yeah...it's hard to get out of bed every day. It's hard to go to work. It's hard to muster up the energy to bang my fists against the unmovable wall.
 
No doubt. I never said it was rational.



And that is exactly the problem. For a certain quantity of mental health patients, there is no answer or cure, but there are variably effective coping mechanisms.

There is a smaller quantity for whom known and well-practiced therapy methods are not effective. New techniques and updates to old techniques continue to be developed, but there are no promises.

For me there has been no pill to offer even the smallest degree of relief. Therapy has deepened my understanding of the problem, but even armed with greater knowledge I feel no better equipped to handle it. In many ways I feel worse off for knowing, because I know how resistant has been to treatment. I have no hope for recovery or even just a reduction of symptoms. The only thing I can think of that I haven't tried is electro-convulsive therapy.

I work hard. I take care of myself and my child. She is happy, healthy, and successful. I am none of the above. I keep trudging on with counseling and medication, trying to find an effective combination. But now, 25 years into it....there's nothing to show for it except for the fact that I'm still alive. And I have no reason to suspect that will ever change. So yeah...it's hard to get out of bed every day. It's hard to go to work. It's hard to muster up the energy to bang my fists against the unmovable wall.

I stopped going when I realized my own problems were less about me and more about the direction of my life; which is why I usually suggest someone just deals and opts to live life than to find someone who can tell them how.
 
I stopped going when I realized my own problems were less about me and more about the direction of my life; which is why I usually suggest someone just deals and opts to live life than to find someone who can tell them how.

Who is responsible for the direction of your life if not you, yourself? Therefore your problems are every bit about yourself. Take responsibility in that you and only you are responsible for your actions. Your life will change a lot, likely for the better.
 
uh tell me where I said I was trying to hand over my life to a counselor?

Thanx.

I didnt say you should hand your life over to a counselor, but I do think you could benefit by talking to someone with an objective viewpoint. That doesnt entail handing your life over to anyone. Its obvious that you do not understand how therapy works.