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Suicide and those quietly considering it

My mother took her life when I was in my early 20's. She often made comments that she'd do it one day and everyone in the family became immune to her comments. Then she did it.

All I can say is if you know someone that says they will do it, take them seriously and do your best to get them help. Also it seems to really hinge around them feeling there is no alternative for ever they are unhappy about. Show them there is.

In my mothers case we couldn't get her to see she had a depression issue and when they're in denial it's really tough on everyone.
 
xander8280 said:
OP, sorry man:/ they're free from this cruel world and can't feel anymore pain man.

Don't know if anybody posted this yet.
"suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem".

I actually read that quote a few hours ago and almost posted it.
I've never seen it until tonight but truer words were never spoken.
 
So you shouldn't really stare at him like "are you okay?" but, you also shouldn't look at him like nothings wrong.

Lol, wut? :confused:

It's clear from your post that you have little to no experience in dealing with anyone that's deeply depressed and/or suicidal (really suicidal, not the half-assed cries for help you see so many teens and young adults do when they're feeling really down). Offering your thoughts is fine, but it might be a good idea to avoid offering advice on something you haven't experienced yourself. Just my $.02.

blendermassacre - lots of good advice from MIJ-VI and 1SHOT1HIT.

My ex tried to commit suicide twice while we were together, was baker acted 3 times (mandatory 72hr hold in the psych ward), and for a couple of months straight would grab hold of me as soon as I came home from work every day and start balling, talking about how she didn't want to be on this earth anymore. She was getting professional help, but that only goes so far.

What worked best was for me to acknowledge the problem and reassure her everything would be okay, then do something fun to get her mind off things and give her a little bit of a break. Anything to make her laugh. Whether it was a bunch of jokes, a Youtube clip, a hilarious movie - just something to break the tension.

Once her mood improved slightly (albeit temporarily), I would start probing her for information and offering possible solutions. When someone gets to that point they can't think rationally, and often things seem much worse than they really are, so in a non-condescending way, break that down for your friend. Start at the ground up...find out what straw broke the camels back...find out when these feelings came about and what events happened around that time that could've caused them. Find out what he thinks might make him happy in the future and come up with some small steps he can take to reach that goal. The key is to reinforce that almost any problem can be solved, and you'll help him in any way you can, but he can't do everything at once.

Also, if you can get him to see a GOOD therapist, do that. I went through a time a little over a decade ago where I was deeply depressed and felt suicidal. It turns out that I'd been building up anger over a number of years due to some family issues, and although I almost never thought about those things, they greatly affected me every day. Once I was able to acknowledge and work through them, I noticed I felt better than I had since I was a little kid. It's really amazing how something seemingly insignificant that you *think* you've forgotten about can have such a profound impact on you for many years after.

Sorry for the long post...hope some of this helps. Good luck to both you and your friend. Hopefully everything turns out okay and he's able to learn a valuable lesson from all of this and move on with his life. Keep us updated.
 
I'd say it's worth a try, sometimes just knowing you have people that are close and want to be around you can be a powerful thing when going through tough times.

Your not possibly saying your ill equipped to be a friend are you? Because that's really all you can do and sometimes that's all you should do and may be all he needs you to do.

Some professional help is absolutely going to help but you may not be able to be involved there.
So offer what you can and that is just being there to help.
Don't act strange, weird or uncomfortable. Just be the same buddy he started hanging with back when you guys first started hanging out.

Just saying that I feel ill equipped to handle the full force of what he's going through. I have a lot of guilt today. I saw him the night before, and he was drunk and crying out in our bar district, drunk and crying, and wouldn't talk to me.. then 3 hours later tried to kill himself. It's a lot. I'm back at work today, but want nothing more than to go home.
 
Just saying that I feel ill equipped to handle the full force of what he's going through. I have a lot of guilt today. I saw him the night before, and he was drunk and crying out in our bar district, drunk and crying, and wouldn't talk to me.. then 3 hours later tried to kill himself. It's a lot. I'm back at work today, but want nothing more than to go home.

If you ever need any advice or just want to vent to an anonymous 3rd party, feel free to shoot me a PM and I can send you my email address or phone#. Good luck and remember - he was serious about doing this, and there was nothing you could do to prevent it...
 
I actually read that quote a few hours ago and almost posted it.
I've never seen it until tonight but truer words were never spoken.

I disagree. Some problems are not temporary, at least in terms of a human life span. I know people in their 70s who have been struggling with major depression since they were children. How is that a temporary problem?
 
If you ever need any advice or just want to vent to an anonymous 3rd party, feel free to shoot me a PM and I can send you my email address or phone#. Good luck and remember - he was serious about doing this, and there was nothing you could do to prevent it...

I know this stuff in my head, but my heart is such a different matter right now. I skipped out of work for a bit to see him at the hospital. It's weird, because they originally said that they were going to hold him for 24 hrs, but he hasn't had surgery yet, so he won't get out till either tomorrow night or saturday. I think they're holding him for further psych evaluations, even though that he said no one from the hospital had come to talk to him about anything regarding getting him mental help.

I'm just really emotionally tired. Now our band has to cancel a relatively big show, which is fine, but will shine more light on the issue than I wish for him right now.

And thanks again to everyone for your support.
 
HaMMerHeD said:
I disagree. Some problems are not temporary, at least in terms of a human life span. I know people in their 70s who have been struggling with major depression since they were children. How is that a temporary problem?

You know I can't disagree with you on that, say someone was molested as a small child and spends their entire life dealing with all kinds of feelings as a result.

Or maybe witnessed their families death at an early age or something.

So I guess maybe I should have chosen my words a bit wiser.
I hadn't really put they much thought into it to be honest. I appreciate the reminder that some problems are indeed life long and never go away, fade maybe but could easily last for decades and longer in some cases.
 
You know I can't disagree with you on that, say someone was molested as a small child and spends their entire life dealing with all kinds of feelings as a result.

Or maybe witnessed their families death at an early age or something.

So I guess maybe I should have chosen my words a bit wiser.
I hadn't really put they much thought into it to be honest. I appreciate the reminder that some problems are indeed life long and never go away, fade maybe but could easily last for decades and longer in some cases.

No worries. I just have real problems with some of the platitudes and common sayings that people toss around to depressed persons. There are a lot of things people say (and I'm sure you have experienced some) that are just wrong, unhelpful, and/or actually hurtful. If they actually keep a person from hurting himself or herself, then great, but let's not pretend that there is anything close to a one-size-fits-all response.

Obviously, "we" (as in the public collective) would prefer that depressed persons stick out the fight and keep trying. There are new treatments coming out fairly frequently, both in medication and in therapy. Suicide guarantees that future treatment techniques and technologies will not help you. From an external perspective, suicide may seem like a selfish and hurtful thing to do. But from the other side, I can say that people telling me that I have to stick it out even with no hope of recovery or respite, because they would miss me or they would be mad at me or hate me...how is it not selfish or hurtful to tell a suffering person to keep suffering and struggling simply because you don't wish to be deprived of his or her company?

I'm not advocating suicide. I would never do it myself, even though the thoughts have been with me since I was a small child. I'm just saying that it's not as simple a thing as a lot of people seem to think.
 
No worries. I just have real problems with some of the platitudes and common sayings that people toss around to depressed persons. There are a lot of things people say (and I'm sure you have experienced some) that are just wrong, unhelpful, and/or actually hurtful. If they actually keep a person from hurting himself or herself, then great, but let's not pretend that there is anything close to a one-size-fits-all response.

Obviously, "we" (as in the public collective) would prefer that depressed persons stick out the fight and keep trying. There are new treatments coming out fairly frequently, both in mediation and in therapy. Suicide guarantees that future treatment techniques and technologies will not help you. From an external perspective, suicide may seem like a selfish and hurtful thing to do. But from the other side, I can say that people telling me that I have to stick it out even with no hope of recovery or respite, because they would miss me or they would be mad at me or hate me...how is it not selfish or hurtful to tell a suffering person to keep suffering and struggling simply because you don't wish to be deprived of his or her company?

I'm not advocating suicide. I would never do it myself, even though the thoughts have been with me since I was a small child. I'm just saying that it's not as simple a thing as a lot of people seem to think.

Well said. I agree 100%.
 
blendermassacre said:
Just saying that I feel ill equipped to handle the full force of what he's going through. I have a lot of guilt today. I saw him the night before, and he was drunk and crying out in our bar district, drunk and crying, and wouldn't talk to me.. then 3 hours later tried to kill himself. It's a lot. I'm back at work today, but want nothing more than to go home.

The last thing you need to be doing is blaming yourself or feeling guilty about something you had no possible way of knowing or even controlling if you had known.

I remember when my uncle committed suicide he sat at Hooters with my older brother and I and acted fine, he even laughed and joked around with us and flirted with the waitress and had a great time.

After his death I remember reflecting heavily on that moment because it was right before and was the last time I actually saw him.
I now realize it was his final moment with us and I know that now. But for a very long time I felt very angry with myself like I should have picked up on the signs.
And looking back in 20/20 I know there were several things said at that table that were obviously hints to his soon to be ultimate decision.
I remember he even showed us the email from the man that was threatening him and let us read it and see that this man was threatening his life and antagonizing him to no end about taking his kids and teaching them that he was gonna be their new father and how much he enjoyed sleeping with my uncles wife.
And saying things like "only one of us will be laying on the ground when I'm through with you"
And "This is my family now" and calling my cousins "his" kids and just basically saying that he was going to take over my uncles family and physically threatening to cause bodily harm to him when he sees him.


Well my brother and I both got pretty pissed off naturally and told my uncle that we'd help "Take care" of this guy.
He could very easily be dealt with and he could just sit back and keep his hands clean.

With a very simple look between my brother and I I knew what he was thinking and I made a point to remember the guys information, my brother tried to copy it, we weren't going to kill this guy or anything but we were thinking maybe we'd make his life such a crappy situation he'd move away or at least leave my uncles family the hell alone.

He told both of us to calm down and not get involved because we both had young kids, and both of us let out macho male side shine through, and said no F That this guy has gone to far, you don't mess with another mans wife and you definitely don't EVER mess with his kids. This guy needs to catch a beating in the worst way and were gonna be the ones to deliver it to him, blah blah blah and some more liquored up tough guy talk.

We were serious but I'm sure the liquid courage we were pounding down wasn't hurting our toughness either.

Anyway long story short he killed him very soon after that dinner and killed himself shortly after and I always blamed myself for sending him over the edge.
I always felt like maybe we put those thoughts into his head, and got him to take the whole thing on a more serious level.
Also thought that maybe we pushed him to it because he knew that given enough time my brother and I would absolutely have gotten involved and I thought maybe he was trying to avoid that.

I don't know and I never will, what I do know is that he bought the gun way before that dinner, he went target shooting a week before the dinner, he rented the rental car to pull it all off long before that dinner, and wrote his note long before that dinner.
Basically his mind was made up way before we said anything.
I had to eventually just accept that all you can do is love your loved ones, no more no less, you can't blame yourself for their actions.
Unless they flat out come out and say something to you and you totally ignore it. There's really nothing you can do.

Your NOT in any way responsible for your friends decision that night, don't go down that path of blaming yourself or regretting things you did or said. You had no way of knowing he'd actually do anything like this.
Don't over think it, just tell him you wished he'd have come to you and spoken to you. BEFORE THE DRINKING when the both of you could have spoken about issues clear headed and logically.
Make sure he knows that in the future he can come to you ALWAYS and should never feel the need to get to this point again.

Okay I hope that made sense I typed that on my phone and rushed through it, I'll try and proof read it later from an actual computer. Sorry if it's full of run on sentences and horrible punctuation.
 
HaMMerHeD said:
No worries. I just have real problems with some of the platitudes and common sayings that people toss around to depressed persons. There are a lot of things people say (and I'm sure you have experienced some) that are just wrong, unhelpful, and/or actually hurtful. If they actually keep a person from hurting himself or herself, then great, but let's not pretend that there is anything close to a one-size-fits-all response.

Obviously, "we" (as in the public collective) would prefer that depressed persons stick out the fight and keep trying. There are new treatments coming out fairly frequently, both in medication and in therapy. Suicide guarantees that future treatment techniques and technologies will not help you. From an external perspective, suicide may seem like a selfish and hurtful thing to do. But from the other side, I can say that people telling me that I have to stick it out even with no hope of recovery or respite, because they would miss me or they would be mad at me or hate me...how is it not selfish or hurtful to tell a suffering person to keep suffering and struggling simply because you don't wish to be deprived of his or her company?

I'm not advocating suicide. I would never do it myself, even though the thoughts have been with me since I was a small child. I'm just saying that it's not as simple a thing as a lot of people seem to think.

Yeah, I hear ya and agree 100%

I personally don't view it as selfish or whatever because I honestly don't see it as a moment where the person is even really capable of genuinely thinking about anything outside of the consuming feelings of hopelessness they are experiencing.

I think that it may seem selfish sure but IME & IMO I personally know that they do think very much about those that will be hurt and genuinely feel bad about it, however they're not in a mental position to bounce reason back & forth they feel cornered by their grief and pain and and feel that there is no other option.

Anyway, yes I know exactly what you mean and again agree with you.
 
I disagree. Some problems are not temporary, at least in terms of a human life span. I know people in their 70s who have been struggling with major depression since they were children. How is that a temporary problem?

True, some of life's problems are not temporary. But just because a few are more enduring than others doesn't make them insurmountable.

History shows that we humans are hard-wired to adapt and overcome most setbacks--as long as we don't cheat ourselves out of the time required to compose a creative work-a-round for each issue.

In my experience most of the things that got me deeply depressed have all proven to be temporary, and with the passage of more time, fairly trivial compared to what others go through.

The first thing a suicidal mindset tries to kill is creative reasoning by conning us into the belief that there's really no other way out. Rubbish!

Don't let life's bastards - in any of their forms - take ya down on the cheap. Fight back!
 
MIJ-VI said:
True, some of life's problems are not temporary. But just because a few are more enduring than others doesn't make them insurmountable.

History shows that we humans are hard-wired to adapt and overcome most setbacks--as long as we don't cheat ourselves out of the time required to compose a creative work-a-round for each issue.

In my experience most of the things that got me deeply depressed have all proven to be temporary, and with the passage of more time, fairly trivial compared to what others go through.

The first thing a suicidal mindset tries to kill is creative reasoning by conning us into the belief that there's really no other way out. Rubbish!

Don't let life's bastards - in any of their forms - take ya down on the cheap. Fight back!

No doubt that all issues are subjective, some are temporary and some are not ever able to be sorted out.

Fortunately for many they really are just a rut that person has ended up stuck in.
Therapy and positive thinking can certainly solve them in time.

Unfortunately it's not the case for all. I think both of you make great points in regards to different situations.
 
I went to my parent's house today to pay them rent (we're renting out a condo they own). I had to borrow $500 and use some tip money to cover the rest. My dad was happy that I paid him but my mom was worried about the way I had to borrow the money to cover rent. Work has been tough and I have been depressed here lately. I feel that no one cares and that I'm a complete failure at providing for my family. My dad was so happy to get the money and completely ignored the look on my face of defeat. My mom noticed it right away but neglected to say anything.

Then, as I was leaving their house, I heard my dad tell me that he wasn't done talking. I turned around and he said to not come over and get on his computer because he had 40 viruses on it and it cost him money to repair it. He was blaming me for his computer getting infected. I never get on his computer anymore. When I did I just checked Facebook and Talkbass. I have a phone for that when I'm over at his house. It just goes to show that they really don't care about me, just as long as they get their monthly rent check. Who cares if I was contemplating taking my own life on the way over. Not them. They like the money. This world is cold and I hate my life! If I end my life, my wife and kids can find a better dad that can raise them and meet their needs better than I can. Yeah, he won't be their natural dad but so what. It'll be a better dad.

My wife, who's out of town with the kids, is having a blast at her parent's house. The kids love it there. They're so happy. She doesn't even call. I usually call her. Today I told her that if something doesn't change then I was going to change it by taking my own life. I don't think she takes me seriously. I don't know if I take myself seriously but, if something doesn't change, I'll change it myself. I do mean that. Something's got to change.
 
capnsandwich said:
Then, as I was leaving their house, I heard my dad tell me that he wasn't done talking. I turned around and he said to not come over and get on his computer because he had 40 viruses on it and it cost him money to repair it. He was blaming me for his computer getting infected. I never get on his computer anymore. When I did I just checked Facebook and Talkbass.

95% percent sure that your dad has been downloading porn.

In any event, for now, get out of your head. Go to a movie...go for a hike, or to a coffeehouse or whatever. Stay away from that environment as much as possible. Try to make an earnest effort to make good decisions for yourself.

You CAN act your way into feeling better. (virtual bro hug).
 
tastybasslines said:
95% percent sure that your dad has been downloading porn.

In any event, for now, get out of your head. Go to a movie...go for a hike, or to a coffeehouse or whatever. Stay away from that environment as much as possible. Try to make an earnest effort to make good decisions for yourself.

You CAN act your way into feeling better. (virtual bro hug).

Oh, and another "dad" will never be better that you. They need you. Now and forever.
 

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