TC Electronic RH450 discussion - Tweaking the Preamp

[barteroo2002]

Seems to me as if they momentum has kinda slowed a bit.
It appears that everyone thinks that they want every single option under the sun. It's common belief that having every tweak available to you means the likelihood of achieving a good sound is higher.
But it appears in reality, that the very musically and technologically competent testers have essentially found that a great amp is a great amp. A high pass shift option would be a great addition but the actual tweaking tool is not the god-send everyone thought it would be.

To me, the TC RH450 has always appealed, and it still does. Mainly because it sounds fantastic whenever I try it out!

As in some musical situations, the magic only happens when you give yourself some limitations - if you have EVERY POSSIBLE option to consider first, its never an advantage.

Just my thoughts...

Scott

 

[Vic]

Seems to me as if they momentum has kinda slowed a bit.
It appears that everyone thinks that they want every single option under the sun. It's common belief that having every tweak available to you means the likelihood of achieving a good sound is higher.
But it appears in reality, that the very musically and technologically competent testers have essentially found that a great amp is a great amp. A high pass shift option would be a great addition but the actual tweaking tool is not the god-send everyone thought it would be.

To me, the TC RH450 has always appealed, and it still does. Mainly because it sounds fantastic whenever I try it out!

As in some musical situations, the magic only happens when you give yourself some limitations - if you have EVERY POSSIBLE option to consider first, its never an advantage.

Just my thoughts...

Scott

Of course there's a delicate balance between usability and versatility. One of my pet peeves is "too many bells and whistles".

Two things have become clear through this testing, though as no surprise... TC has done a great job with this amp, and, there is still room for some changes that would likely have a majority appeal.

I don't know about others, but based on TC's track history, I really didn't expect to come up with a huge list of recommendations anyway.

Anyway, I'm still messing with it.

 

[moretolife]

I think that amps with simple options but good tone are better. Some people are not good players but they want many options therefore ending up with double badness. IMO TC would end up with a great amp if they increased the high end range like what is on the S51 and added a button that switches from vintage (rh450) to modern (S51/EBS 350). They could possibly put on a knob like the one on the Tecamp Puma or Mesa M6 that provides some instant eq changes. What we need is good tone with minimum tweaks and for the player to play well.

 

[nervous]

So just how rare is switching basses mid-gig these days? Trying to figure out the best way to do that. The two input SansAmp Bass Driver Deluxe looked promising, but I stopped by Guitar Center in Charleston to try one out and it just didn't seem to have enough flexibility in the EQ to find the right sounds with my WAV4 EUB. Needless to say, the four band semi-para EQ in the RH450 sounds very promising, even if it means a separate switch box to avoid plugging/unplugging when changing bases.


So any recommendations on a simple, small, but high quality switch box to select between multiple basses? Maybe with buffering on one side?

My current plan is to use a simple, high quality A/B box. I own a Startouch ST1 A/B Box and think that with three presets available it will be a breeze to dedicate at least one to each of the two basses and a third for another sound/tone/level/etc. This way they're always plugged in, sonically balanced and ready to go. No buffering but I don't think I need it (or even know what it is...)

http://www.startouchpedals.com/Merc...&Store_Code=startouchpedals&Product_Code=ST-1

 

[Boombass76]

Subscribed!

 

[engedi1]

My current plan is to use a simple, high quality A/B box. I own a Startouch ST1 A/B Box and think that with three presets available it will be a breeze to dedicate at least one to each of the two basses and a third for another sound/tone/level/etc. This way they're always plugged in, sonically balanced and ready to go. No buffering but I don't think I need it (or even know what it is...)

http://www.startouchpedals.com/Merc...&Store_Code=startouchpedals&Product_Code=ST-1

Actually Nervous, the Radial Bassbone is designed to do exactly what you are talking about. i have one, and used when I used to go back and forth from fretless to fretted on a gig I had for a whilte. Each channel has its own gain, and one channel has a very usable 3 band eq (for your passive bass) It has its own mute, tuner out, effects loops, and boost (personal favorite)
It is also built like a tank.
If I had a gig that required a switch from upright to electric, I would still use it, so that the amp would always be receiving a signal at the same volume. click here... http://www.tonebone.com/tb-bassbone.htm

 

[chjohnst]

:subscribed:

Planning to order an RH450 and 2 cabs this week (10" and 12")! Hope this is the right amp for me, hard rock, funk, metal-ish.

 

[OhulahanBass]

I wish these reviews were a bit more FOR the necessary amp tweak software release. I'm still real interested in switching my comp to a limiter and adjusting the LPF. I just want to turn a great amp to the greatest amp!

 

[moretolife]

I agree with OhulahanBass, where are the tweakers? It would be nice if the other stuff could be talked about on the other RH thread and we more had tweaking here.

 

[engedi1]

I'm still real interested in switching my comp to a limiter and adjusting the LPF.

THis is a great point. I too wish for a limiter as opposed to a compressor and I wish that one of the tweakers would try to make the spectracomp into a limiter and post results.

 

[Musicman20]

I think we are working on a potential idea to get some more results with the spectracomp. As of next week, I should have more info and written descriptions of the differences Ive found.

 

[relwof]

Actually Nervous, the Radial Bassbone is designed to do exactly what you are talking about. i have one, and used when I used to go back and forth from fretless to fretted on a gig I had for a whilte. Each channel has its own gain, and one channel has a very usable 3 band eq (for your passive bass) It has its own mute, tuner out, effects loops, and boost (personal favorite)
It is also built like a tank.
If I had a gig that required a switch from upright to electric, I would still use it, so that the amp would always be receiving a signal at the same volume. click here... http://www.tonebone.com/tb-bassbone.htm

If you're trying to run an upright with passive piezos (no on-board preamp), the Bassbone might not be ideal. From what I've read, it really was not designed to be used as a preamp. OTOH, the ToneBone PZ Pre looks like a great option. However, with all the flexibility in the RH450, that might be overkill. If the RH450 can handle the impedance on those pickups, a simple A/B switch might be all you need. I should know soon...

 

[relwof]

I agree with OhulahanBass, where are the tweakers? It would be nice if the other stuff could be talked about on the other RH thread and we more had tweaking here.

Yeah, and more buzz to convince TC that making this available to the rest of us would be a wonderful idea!!!
Finally got a change to listen to an RH450 at the Atlanta Bass Gallery, and, well, wow. Anyhow, he still has some left, but one less than yesterday (and he's also missing a nice little pair of Bergantinos). So this is no longer a merely academic issue for me

 

[engedi1]

What Bergs did you get Relwolf?

 

[Eublet]

THis is a great point. I too wish for a limiter as opposed to a compressor and I wish that one of the tweakers would try to make the spectracomp into a limiter and post results.

I've played with doing that a bit also, and it is possible. It's just a matter of setting a quick attack time with a higher ratio, and then adjusting threshold a bit. What I can't really test here is how different basses would cause the compressor to kick in, only because the basses I have are all relatively the same output. However, to be honest for what I do have, the default settings seemed to be the most natural to me, even if used for peak limiting. Yeah, they do start compressing the entire signal a bit first, but it felt more natural to me that way. Personally, for live use, heavy compression or peak limiting always feels really bizarre to me and tends to suck out all the dynamics of the instrument. I think the RH450's default settings let you apply some light to medium compression without hurting your tone.

For my uses, it seems that if I set compression up to just barely compress the signal every so often visibly (one or two LED's on the dial), then it also seems to work as a Limiter so some degree if I just wail on a string. This provides some general smoothing that sounds good. Honestly, to get more of limiting effect that sounds more natural, I think a high-quality rackmount VCA-based compressor put in the effects loop works best. Hard to beat a dbx 160 for this IME.

 

[relwof]

What Bergs did you get Relwolf?

Slightly used (not neo) HT112 and EX112. ABG didn't have the TC RS210 in stock, but I tried the RS212. While it actually sounded great (much better than what I'm used to), it seemed a little boomy and muffled in comparison. For me, the Bergantinos clearly sounded better.

FWIW, I also listened to some of the newer Bergantinos with the NEO speakers. They were just as amazing. It came to a choice between saving a few pounds vs saving a few hundred $$$. But even without neos, that HT112 is really portable and it sounds so good by itself that I'll probably be fine without the EX112 (oh the suffering...) most times I play out.

He had some bigger Berg cabinets in. I didn't listen to those too closely. Might have been bad for my back...

 

[OhulahanBass]

I use a Aguilar TLC for my limiting right now but would like to shorten the chain for the right spectracomp setting. Limiting filters one three separate bands could provide optimal limiting for bubbly wet funk filters. I also prefer limiting over compression for clean slapping as well. LPF would also bee valuable.

I think the stock Q is part of what makes the RH450 sound like the RH450 and I like them where they are, but they could also be fun to mess with. Like shortening the Q on treble and boost specific freqs between 7K and 10K would be awesome.

I've played with doing that a bit also, and it is possible. It's just a matter of setting a quick attack time with a higher ratio, and then adjusting threshold a bit. What I can't really test here is how different basses would cause the compressor to kick in, only because the basses I have are all relatively the same output. However, to be honest for what I do have, the default settings seemed to be the most natural to me, even if used for peak limiting. Yeah, they do start compressing the entire signal a bit first, but it felt more natural to me that way. Personally, for live use, heavy compression or peak limiting always feels really bizarre to me and tends to suck out all the dynamics of the instrument. I think the RH450's default settings let you apply some light to medium compression without hurting your tone.

For my uses, it seems that if I set compression up to just barely compress the signal every so often visibly (one or two LED's on the dial), then it also seems to work as a Limiter so some degree if I just wail on a string. This provides some general smoothing that sounds good. Honestly, to get more of limiting effect that sounds more natural, I think a high-quality rackmount VCA-based compressor put in the effects loop works best. Hard to beat a dbx 160 for this IME.

 

[KJung]

I use a Aguilar TLC for my limiting right now but would like to shorten the chain for the right spectracomp setting. Limiting filters one three separate bands could provide optimal limiting for bubbly wet funk filters. I also prefer limiting over compression for clean slapping as well. LPF would also bee valuable.

I think the stock Q is part of what makes the RH450 sound like the RH450 and I like them where they are, but they could also be fun to mess with. Like shortening the Q on treble and boost specific freqs between 7K and 10K would be awesome.

This shows how clueless I am about compressors. I thought limiting was identical to compression regarding peak suppression, and that the only difference was that limiters don't bring a very soft signal 'up' like compressors do.

So, for slapping, for example, I would think a compressor would act like a limiter pretty much, just taming the peaks. That's the way I hear the default compressor settings on the RH450.

What am I missing?

 

[Eublet]

I use a Aguilar TLC for my limiting right now but would like to shorten the chain for the right spectracomp setting. Limiting filters one three separate bands could provide optimal limiting for bubbly wet funk filters. I also prefer limiting over compression for clean slapping as well. LPF would also bee valuable.

I think the stock Q is part of what makes the RH450 sound like the RH450 and I like them where they are, but they could also be fun to mess with. Like shortening the Q on treble and boost specific freqs between 7K and 10K would be awesome.

If you can give me some of the specs that you would set on a limiter, I'll give it a shot to see how it works. IME, some compressors, whether pedal or rackmount, just do a better job at limiting than others, even if the same parameters are set. I think it's just nature of the beast.

I have a TLC that is being delivered soon, just because I want to play with it. If you like the TLC, I can certainly make a comparison between it and the RH450 with some tweaks if you like, but it'll be a week or so. The ONLY reason I'm checking out the TLC is because I've had several people tell me that it seems to react much like a rackmount VCA compressor does. I had a Maxon CP9 Pro+ which is VCA-based, and it KILLED for a pedal compressor. Almost as good as a DBX 160, but much easier to move around. But I can't say I've had any other pedal work as well, and certainly not an integrated compressor in a bass head. The RH450 is way better than most pedals at soft limiting and smooth compression, but I don't think it has the feel I like for hard limiting, even with the tweaks. I need to keep trying though because the software is very powerful in this area.

 

[OhulahanBass]

Besides the basic raise of threshold, increase in ratio and quicker attack I don’t know how I could direct you to adjust it without tweaking then listening then tweaking then listening some more while running through a Mutron and MXR M82 (very peaky but bubbly wet filters). Without hearing it I have no idea how soft I’d want the knee and how hard I’d want to limit each range, I think there is allot of potential with one limiter for each of the three frequency ranges. I’m no Bongo, maybe he would have a better idea of what to do.

I have a spectracomp on my Studio One Software, I fiddle with it to see if I can give you a better idea of what I’d be after.

The TLC is great, if you could get the RH450 to get close to that I would be very excited. I never had a rack mount comp/limiter but have gone through many highend pedals and this is the best limiter I’ve found.

If you can give me some of the specs that you would set on a limiter, I'll give it a shot to see how it works. IME, some compressors, whether pedal or rackmount, just do a better job at limiting than others, even if the same parameters are set. I think it's just nature of the beast.

I have a TLC that is being delivered soon, just because I want to play with it. If you like the TLC, I can certainly make a comparison between it and the RH450 with some tweaks if you like, but it'll be a week or so. The ONLY reason I'm checking out the TLC is because I've had several people tell me that it seems to react much like a rackmount VCA compressor does. I had a Maxon CP9 Pro+ which is VCA-based, and it KILLED for a pedal compressor. Almost as good as a DBX 160, but much easier to move around. But I can't say I've had any other pedal work as well, and certainly not an integrated compressor in a bass head. The RH450 is way better than most pedals at soft limiting and smooth compression, but I don't think it has the feel I like for hard limiting, even with the tweaks. I need to keep trying though because the software is very powerful in this area.