I don't know much about the internal workings of compressors, and never found the need for one in live performance. However, using the screen shot of the compressor software controls, if you provide me with some changes you are interested in, I would be glad to give them a try, and attempt to post a clip of the impact.
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TC Electronic RH450 discussion - Tweaking the Preamp
- Thread starter Eublet
- Start date
I don't know much about the internal workings of compressors, and never found the need for one in live performance. However, using the screen shot of the compressor software controls, if you provide me with some changes you are interested in, I would be glad to give them a try, and attempt to post a clip of the impact.
Not off the top of my head, my signal chain is real simple. I just know what he's talking about from a technical perspective... not a specific product perspective.
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
Ken, to set up the compressor to be a limiter, try kicking the ratio very high. You might also need to increase the threshold so the comp only grabs the louder notes.
Do all three freq bands of the comp to see if it works. Fine-tuning each band would depend on playing style and tone.
An ideal limiter would not compress at all till you slam a hard note. Some will begin compressing before the limit, increasing the effect as you get close.
I found a couple of curves on the web. X-axis is input level; Y is the output. The first one shows an "ideal" limiter. The second shows the softer knee as it compresses just before hitting the limit.
Do all three freq bands of the comp to see if it works. Fine-tuning each band would depend on playing style and tone.
An ideal limiter would not compress at all till you slam a hard note. Some will begin compressing before the limit, increasing the effect as you get close.
I found a couple of curves on the web. X-axis is input level; Y is the output. The first one shows an "ideal" limiter. The second shows the softer knee as it compresses just before hitting the limit.
Attachments
Cool! I'll give that a try. If I have questions, I'll PM you, and if I can hear a difference that is meaningful, I'll put up a clip. I'll have time to do this tomorrow.
K
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
Very cool! I think I remember that article! Excellent. I just skimmed it again, and I like your statement that players should 'work on their chops so they don't need compression'... at least in a live setting. To me, compression is key for slotting instruments in a track, but little more than a cruch in live performance.
However, to your point above, a touch of limiting on the lowest and loudest notes is nice for speaker safety, and I guess might allow you to squeeze a bit more volume out of an 'undersized' rig in some cases.
I have my test unit kind of packed up, since I've spent quite a bit of time posting clips and reviewing everything I at least have some knowledge about. So... I'll put this out the the rest of the team.... does anyone want to do a similar thing with the compressor controls as I did with the tone controls?
If not, I have no big problem setting it all up again, but would rather not.
Cheers to Ken for being the main contributor in the face of all the onslaught of off topic chatter.
Yes, maybe it's time for someone else to give it a go.
Cheers to Ken for being the main contributor in the face of all the onslaught of off topic chatter.
Yes, maybe it's time for someone else to give it a go.
+1 for ken kodos. Seems Rick explained very well how to turn it into a limiter, but I think I'd really need some long hours alone with it to get it to work perfectly for me... so many options! I'm interested to see how adjusting threshold on multiple bands can be used to improve Mutron and Slap limiting.
I intend to gig with the test amp tweaked very soon. I will report back on whether the changes work out or not. The compressor might be a little over my head, but im going to read up on it. Ive never used compression until owning the TC rig, but I can definitely see its advantages.
It is nice when this thread is on track with the tweaking stuff and the other rh450 amp concerns are on part IV. Also, thanks Ken for your hard work; we are anticipating the input of the others.
Do any of you think that a test will be done on the S51? It would be interesting to see if the eq "baked in" scoop could be modified/tamed, made flat and inverted.
Do any of you think that a test will be done on the S51? It would be interesting to see if the eq "baked in" scoop could be modified/tamed, made flat and inverted.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
If any of the official testers live near Bongomania, his participation in the evaluation of the on-board compressor could be invaluable. IIRC, he's in Portland, OR or thereabouts.
hey, guys...
if I understand correctly, the testing team can now also see accurate values of EQ frequencies? so, could someone confirm or correct the table in this thread here?
thank you in advance; I am really glad this kind of collaboration is happening.
cheers!
if I understand correctly, the testing team can now also see accurate values of EQ frequencies? so, could someone confirm or correct the table in this thread here?
thank you in advance; I am really glad this kind of collaboration is happening.
cheers!
Your RH450 table is accurate (a few hz either way on a few of the estimates, but not worth talking about).
Regarding the Staccato, it is still a bit confusing, since shifting the default center frequency doesn't necessarily shift the entire distribution frequency up and down. So, still no hard info on what that frequency distribution looks like.
Hey guys. This was a fun thing, and I enjoyed it. I was going to set up the system again to mess with the compressor, but I'm just a bit out of energy on this one. I took my clips down on Youtube, since I assume everyone who was interested has seen them (they don't have much general interest to the TB community, so I didn't want them cluttering up my channel), and hopefully they gave you an idea of the potential and capability of a product like this.
Hopefully, one of the other testers can do a clip and review of the compressor section of the product.
Again, my net net is that this sort of product would not really be that interesting to the vast majority of players (especially given the amazing EQ power already built into the amp). However, the variable hi pass that they seem to be including on their new heads will be a good thing IMO for future versions of the RH450.
Hopefully, one of the other testers can do a clip and review of the compressor section of the product.
Again, my net net is that this sort of product would not really be that interesting to the vast majority of players (especially given the amazing EQ power already built into the amp). However, the variable hi pass that they seem to be including on their new heads will be a good thing IMO for future versions of the RH450.
Well, since you pretty much nailed the EQ tweaking before I could get to it, this is actually what I've been spending my time on, but I haven't posted anything because I haven't really been able to come up with anything beyond the stock config that makes me want to comment about it. That's why I've been kinda' quiet.
Darn you Ken for jumping on the EQ so fast!!!
I still want to spend a bit more time on that as well, but despite diffs Ken and I have on some stuff, we very largely agree on what he posted about that.
Anyway, I'm pretty busy this weekend, but I'm gonna' try to spend more time with it, hopefully I can post something interesting... the "problem" is, TC did a great job of it already.
Well, since you pretty much nailed the EQ tweaking before I could get to it, this is actually what I've been spending my time on, but I haven't posted anything because I haven't really been able to come up with anything beyond the stock config that makes me want to comment about it. That's why I've been kinda' quiet.
Darn you Ken for jumping on the EQ so fast!!!
I still want to spend a bit more time on that as well, but despite diffs Ken and I have on some stuff, we very largely agree on what he posted about that.
Anyway, I'm pretty busy this weekend, but I'm gonna' try to spend more time with it, hopefully I can post something interesting... the "problem" is, TC did a great job of it already.
Very cool! And.... +1 to the 'problem' you mention... not much to improve IMO!
Well, since you pretty much nailed the EQ tweaking before I could get to it, this is actually what I've been spending my time on, but I haven't posted anything because I haven't really been able to come up with anything beyond the stock config that makes me want to comment about it. That's why I've been kinda' quiet.
Darn you Ken for jumping on the EQ so fast!!!
I still want to spend a bit more time on that as well, but despite diffs Ken and I have on some stuff, we very largely agree on what he posted about that.
Anyway, I'm pretty busy this weekend, but I'm gonna' try to spend more time with it, hopefully I can post something interesting... the "problem" is, TC did a great job of it already.
I have to agree. Although I cant put a loop through like Ken, when I tweaked then player, the high end tweak was nice, but not essential.
So far, its great to be able to tweak and change it, but TC did seem to nail it pretty much. Ive even started to just use my amp set flat recently.
It would be nice to get a whole different baked in EQ, but at the moment thats not possible.
We shall see what happens
Instead of videos, I will give written information for TC and everyone once I have gigged some of the changes.
So here's how I think this is going to break down...
I think we'll end up with a few general product improvement suggestions (base EQ adjustments, maybe a headphone jack change, a tweeter control, and making access to the compressor more convenient, etc), as well as "new product" suggestions... in essence, maybe the formalization and release of tweaker software and some way for that software to communicate with the head without having to disconnect/reconnect the RC4 to do so.
We'll see.
I think we'll end up with a few general product improvement suggestions (base EQ adjustments, maybe a headphone jack change, a tweeter control, and making access to the compressor more convenient, etc), as well as "new product" suggestions... in essence, maybe the formalization and release of tweaker software and some way for that software to communicate with the head without having to disconnect/reconnect the RC4 to do so.
We'll see.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
It would be very nice if a recap of findings and recommendations were posted here after y'all have concluded your evaluations.
