TC Electronic RH450 discussion - Tweaking the Preamp

[engedi1]

I could see a really cool result of this being that TC has a couple of patches you could download of the website. Then you would just have to buy the cable, and download the LMIII patch, or the Eden patch, or the Staccato patch, or whatever. I think the average consumer wouldn't like or need all the tweaking, I don't think I would really, but such a downloadable feature would enable the average player to only need the RH450, not 4 different heads.

 

[Eublet]

I'll slightly disagree with Jason, as I do think this is the case (at least the R part, not the D part tho). HOWEVER, they didn't hold a gun to our head, either. They offered, and we JOYFULLY accepted. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. My "paycheck" on this will be the learning process, the fun, and maybe even some direct benefit in the future in product. I have NO complaints, and I'm pretty sure the rest of our group feels the same.

I know you're generally negative towards TC for your S51 experiences, but really, there's no reason to carry that around here. Let's try to keep the shiny side up, ok?

Maybe you'll get this Vic given your day job, but coming from an IT background, there's a famous book called Analyzing Requirements and Designing Solutions from the Microsoft Solution Framework. The process they described for successful software development is a cyclical approach where all items of the product release are constantly revisisted and updated. Discoveries from one area (such as user testing) feed back into development, which in turn needs to go back to user testing. Of course at some point you have to break out of this cycle and actually decide a product is ready for release (something MS hasn't always been great at), but the process itself is a good one.

I do agree (again ) that we are doing some research to an extent, but it's all based on testing the items that they give us. The main thing that I disagree with about Dr Funk's statement is that he implies that TC is just dumping this responsiblity on us at no cost to them.

For everyone else, Uffe told us that the tweaker tool we are using is a scaled-down and simpler version of the development tool they've been working with since the beginning for voicing the preamp. So in a sense there's been a lot of internal use of this tool already. We'll get to see how easy it is for us common folk to use. But TC has already done a bit of work in preparing the tool to get to the point where we can make sense of it.

Long story, but to sum up, this is the right way to approach things. Most any company has a prototype team for testing, usually made up of endorsers and company employees. To actually put a product in the hands of some random player like me is cool. There's a risk in that for TC, especially when they tell me I can say whatever I want about it when using it. For them to take that risk shows they are really concerned about the final outcome, and that they want to get as much info up front before then. In the end, like others have said, we're such a small subset of the bass community here at TB. Most folks will never know this public test ever occurred.

 

[Eublet]

I could see a really cool result of this being that TC has a couple of patches you could download of the website. Then you would just have to buy the cable, and download the LMIII patch, or the Eden patch, or the Staccato patch, or whatever. I think the average consumer wouldn't like or need all the tweaking, I don't think I would really, but such a downloadable feature would enable the average player to only need the RH450, not 4 different heads.

This is one thing I'm curious of. I wonder if the RH450 in it's current form is "programmable" in the sense that you could have it download settings without a computer interface. Maybe have some kind of memory stick with a MIDI interface, and if you turn on the RH450 while holding a preset button, it downloads the settings from the MIDI-stick (new word!) into that preset.

Still though, adjusting the preamp items such as EQ and compressor is one thing. Amp modeling is a whole different thing to me, especially when you get into speaker sims which is really necessary to pull of rig simulation. I don't know that the RH450 has that kind of cabability. It's a cool thought though.

 

[Dr Funk]

Look guys, Jason, let's be accurate and not paraphrase me and certainly don't state what I imply. Vic, I have no negativity towards TC regarding my S51 experiences. It is the S51 that just doesn't cut the TC/Rocco sales hype of it IMO that's all there is to it. This whole TC series is delightfully feature laden.
Now that being said back to the thread topic. Now to clarify my earlier post they are that TC is in a win win situation free. 1) Free beta testing and tweaking by experienced heart of our bass community. 2) you guys have some learning to do and some fun to have. 3) We as bassists get to a new level of sound customization and amplification ultimately.
Now if that process initiated by TC doesn't deserve a WELL DONE what does. Now do you understand, have I been clear enough? BTW I edited my post and removed "well done TC" for those of you that take this way to seriously.

 

[Vic]

Maybe you'll get this Vic given your day job

Yep. It's called an "iterative and incremental development process". It's very popular for obvious reasons whose result is timely and well targeted product improvements. Perfect case here.

the process itself is a good one.

AGREED!!

 

[Vic]

Now to clarify my earlier post they are that TC is in a win win situation free. 1) Free beta testing and tweaking by experienced heart of our bass community. 2) you guys have some learning to do and some fun to have. 3) We as bassists get to a new level of sound customization and amplification ultimately.
Now if that process initiated by TC doesn't deserve a WELL DONE what does.

Fair enough.

 

[Vic]

I will say one other thing... just to be completely fair... this really isn't totally "free" for TC. They're supplying us all with hardware and software, and also paying for shipping, as well as time spent supporting the project.

 

[wateroftyne]

Of all the TC Amps that are sold (not a huge number yet

I don't know what the sales figures are, but having spoken to a couple of UK dealers the phrase 'Flying out the door' was used by both...

 

[superbassman2000]

I don't know what the sales figures are, but having spoken to a couple of UK dealers the phrase 'Flying out the door' was used by both...

lol a salesperson saying they are flying out the door is like when waiters/waitresses say that the fish is their favorite on a monday evenings

 

[Eublet]

lol a salesperson saying they are flying out the door is like when waiters/waitresses say that the fish is their favorite on a monday evenings

This is true. My wife and I always laugh at this because every time we go to a new place and ask the server what their favorite dish is, they usually suggest the one that costs the most!

 

[superbassman2000]

This is true. My wife and I always laugh at this because every time we go to a new place and ask the server what their favorite dish is, they usually suggest the one that costs the most!

lol for sure--it's either that or the one that's about to go bad (most restaurants don't get seafood in on the weekends, hence trying to move as much of the old fish before it goes bad!)

 

[Musicman20]

Whether it cheaper for TC to use the Tbass team or not, im happy to be part of it anyway. We are all pretty excited to be part of such an interesting idea, and I for one am quite flattered to be chosen. Im a normal guy, training in law, playing bass and really enjoying it. I do play in a few bands but no major label or anything like that.

it is costing them quite a lot to ship out 5 sets of testing equipment, which includes a 'spare' RH450 to test on, even though the software wont actually do any harm to the amp. I think its just so we have that peace of mind and leave our own amps as original.

This is getting to be quite a popular topic!

 

[KJung]

This is getting to be quite a popular topic!

Paraphrasing Winston Churchill:

Never have so few said so much about so little

I'll post up again after I spend 5 or so hours with the test equipment when it arrives

 

[wateroftyne]

lol a salesperson saying they are flying out the door is like when waiters/waitresses say that the fish is their favorite on a monday evenings

I should have said dealers I know, who have no reason to BS me...

 

[superbassman2000]

I should have said dealers I know, who have no reason to BS me...

ah i see that makes more sense!

 

[Akami]

+1 I would see this type of application as almost a 'one time use' for most (just tweaking the parameters for 'their sound'), and possibly another tweak down the road if the player purchased a new bass or cab that had particular issues.

Quite frankly, I can't see doing anything to the RH450 except possibly widening out the upper treble response, and maybe, just maybe tightening the Q on the upper mid control.

Nice to have that ability though, but as you say, this isn't a 'real time' tool IMO... more of a 'tweak out of the box' to fix anything minor in the voicing of the amp you might not like.

KJung, your posts are always the voice of reason and if I could find any fault in them it's that with all the opinions being stated in this forum, you level-headed opinions are the ones that least need to be followed with IMHO and IME.

You're suggestion to see this opportunity as a one time tweak is exactly how I saw this thread when it first opened and I think it's the best way to continue seeing it.

One possibility that might be of interest to many of the members here would be for all 5 of you to give your personal favorite tweak to TC and have them be among whatever options there might be in the future.

I could see a really cool result of this being that TC has a couple of patches you could download of the website. Then you would just have to buy the cable, and download the LMIII patch, or the Eden patch, or the Staccato patch, or whatever. I think the average consumer wouldn't like or need all the tweaking, I don't think I would really, but such a downloadable feature would enable the average player to only need the RH450, not 4 different heads.

+1

What he said!

 

[moretolife]

Is it that TCE may possibly market a tweaking tool/software or might it be that they will use the results of this to make a player favorite/ultimate amp? I would be happy if I could program the presets to 1) a Marcus like funk, 2) real SVT rock and 3) Jaco or Haslip like Fretless Tones. IMHO that would be an amp!
Can you just make that happen?

 

[LM Bass]

These are pretty much the presets I have going on my TC already. It's pretty versatile with EQ points, compression, tube tone, and levels all set up on the pedal.

 

[Tom7]

H mm, free R & D.

I'm pretty sure this isn't free for TC at all. They've got a high level person overseeing and interacting with us, shipping of gear all over the world, etc. to pay for.

What they are trying to do is make sure the Danish Kroners they put into this R&D are going to meet the needs of their target market.

That's something to admire, not criticize really.

 

[Eublet]

Is it that TCE may possibly market a tweaking tool/software or might it be that they will use the results of this to make a player favorite/ultimate amp? I would be happy if I could program the presets to 1) a Marcus like funk, 2) real SVT rock and 3) Jaco or Haslip like Fretless Tones. IMHO that would be an amp!
Can you just make that happen?

I have to say, I think all that is possible already with the RH450, though for the Marcus thing it might not be quite zingy enough for some players. If the low pass filter adjusts as we all believe it will with this test package, we can hopefully open up the top end cap a bit and let all that sparkle come through. I have to say, this one function alone would be IT For me. I'd love to see nothing more than the Tweetertone feature (from the new combos) available on the next TC head. The RH450's top end rolloff seems a bit more natural to me than the VLE on the Markbass heads for example. If you could simply control that with a knob, it would be pure heaven. If the Q is adjustable on each individual knob, then it would be an added plus. I'd also like to have a single notching control, and leave the wider Q on all the other knobs.

Another thing I'm curious of is how far down the low frequency can be centered on the bass knob. I like the default setting on the RH450 now, but everything above that is really not useful to me in a bass knob. If the bass could be set at 80 hz default, that would let you take it all the way to around 40 hz to the left, and around 160 to the right. For my needs, that would be about perfect. You could then use it to fatten up the tone, or even as a make-shift HPF in boomy environments. Then set the low mid to adjust from 250 to 1khz, and the High from 2khz to 8 khz. That would leave the high-mid as a notch with a very narrow Q. Scoop just a click or two at 800 hz, and you'd have a nasty funk machine.

Anyway, test gear is on the way, with mine showing as delivery for this Monday. Can't wait to jump right in!