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TC Electronics RH450 Quasi-Wattage Ratings Discussion Thread

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#121
I forgot to add the lie about 11.62niner ohms on their cabs to the list of deception.

So they release a 450watt that is only 236 watts and you can only use two 8ohm cabs with it, unless you use their 8ohm cabs, then you can use three of theirs, because it turns out they aren't 8ohms either. What do they tell the truth about?
 
#124
Jarrett said:
I forgot to add the lie about 11.62niner ohms on their cabs to the list of deception.

So they release a 450watt that is only 236 watts and you can only use two 8ohm cabs with it, unless you use their 8ohm cabs, then you can use three of theirs, because it turns out they aren't 8ohms either. What do they tell the truth about?
Click to expand...

Exactly! Pure smoke and mirrors...
 
#127
Jarrett said:
I forgot to add the lie about 11.62niner ohms on their cabs to the list of deception.

So they release a 450watt that is only 236 watts and you can only use two 8ohm cabs with it, unless you use their 8ohm cabs, then you can use three of theirs, because it turns out they aren't 8ohms either. What do they tell the truth about?
Click to expand...

I was about to say that I don't see the amp as an AccuSwitch situation at all...but the cabs on the other hand...8ohm cabs that you can use 3 for a total 4ohm load?

Can we start talking about how the cabs SOUND like 8ohms even though they're really 11 and change? That's alright too, right?
 
#129
I'm not sure why people are acting like we're saying the amp no longer sounds good. That was never the debate and besides people stuffing as many strawmen as they can, it has nothing to do with this.

Nor does whether we use compression in recording and mastering or not. Nor whether the house soundman has limiters on the subs out front.

I happen to prefer open dynamic and headroom. I would also prefer to chose my compression scheme rather than having one locked into an amp. I stopped using my 500w LMII because of two things. Lack of headroom and power amp limiting. I also have a bass that is very even in tone and volume across the strings, so in regular playing I don't need compression to level out my sound...and I can still get volume dynamic when I want it.

I expect a company to report ACTUAL measurements when they're using scientific units of measure. Watts are a unit of measurement. Ohms are a unit of measurement. 8 ohms doesn't mean 11 point whatever. It means 8. 450 watts (RMS) and 900w (peak) means just that.
 
#131
BurningSkies said:
Can we start talking about how the cabs SOUND like 8ohms even though they're really 11 and change? That's alright too, right?
Click to expand...

Published nominal impedance varies quite a bit from reality. It is rare that an '8ohm' nominal impedance cab is actually exactly 8 ohms. The trouble starts when the cab is a bit UNDER the published nominal impedance proxy. A bit over... zero issue.

And, as most realize, there is not 'sound of an 8ohm cab'. The interaction between wattage, impedance and volume is non-linear, and greatly depends on the tuning of the cab and other mechanical specs of the speaker.


Being upset that the 8ohm listing should have been stated as 11 ohms is reasonable from an 'ethical' perspective, but in reality, makes little difference in performance, other than you can actually run three of them with the TC heads, which I guess is actually a good thing.
 
#132
KJung said:
Published nominal impedance varies quite a bit from reality. It is rare that an '8ohm' nominal impedance cab is actually exactly 8 ohms. The trouble starts when the cab is a bit UNDER the published nominal impedance proxy. A bit over... zero issue.

And, as most realize, there is not 'sound of an 8ohm cab'. The interaction between wattage, impedance and volume is non-linear, and greatly depends on the tuning of the cab and other mechanical specs of the speaker.


Being upset that the 8ohm listing should have been stated as 11 ohms is reasonable from an 'ethical' perspective, but in reality, makes little difference in performance, other than you can actually run three of them with the TC heads, which I guess is actually a good thing.
Click to expand...

I know this Ken... and you may notice I phrased it in that way because that's the way people have been arguing the amp wattage situation...that its OK ethically because it 'sounds' like it matches their published rating. ;)
 
#133
KJung said:
Being upset that the 8ohm listing should have been stated as 11 ohms is reasonable from an 'ethical' perspective, but in reality, makes little difference in performance, other than you can actually run three of them with the TC heads, which I guess is actually a good thing.
Click to expand...
Unless you only want to run two cabs AND get full output from the amp, then you can't use their cabs. It's not that you can use three cabs with their heads, you have to in order to get the amp to 4ohms/full power output.
 
#135
BurningSkies said:
I know this Ken... and you may notice I phrased it in that way because that's the way people have been arguing the amp wattage situation...that its OK ethically because it 'sounds' like it matches their published rating. ;)
Click to expand...

+1 Same thing with the amp. Those who have played these heads and gigged them realize that the wattage spec is just one of the indicators of actual performance, and given my (and many others') experience with the head, it is a pretty poor indicator, especially in the case of the RH.

Again, an ethical issue for some, and I get that. In the reality of performance, a VERY small issue, since virtually all are happy with the performance of the head (at least on TB), and it lives up to its 'tube amp' sort of emulation promise for most. Of course, that 'vintage pushed tube emulation' sort of vibe is an acquired taste, and I ended up moving to a head with a 'non pushed tube emulation' sort of voicing that also uses some pretty fancy limiting and 'tube emulation' on the power amp side of the signal chain to overperform versus the actual wattage specs of the OEM power module. Some pretty cool stuff happening at the moment!

Simple fix for most.... if the loose usage of spec's really bothers a person, they should sell the amp or not buy one, regardless of how it sounds. Pretty simple to me. Again, there are a couple of brands that I do this with. However, they were in a more clearcut category... they fudged the specs and the gear SOUNDED (or otherwised performed) like they fudged the specs:p That is, of course, a no brainer.

Again, most realize that 'getting the maximum wattage out of the head' or whatever, in and of itself, has very limited real world impact, and is totally dependent of the sensitivity of the cabs combined with the mechanical properties of the speakers and the power amp limiting design of the head.
 
#137
Jarrett said:
Unless you only want to run two cabs AND get full output from the amp, then you can't use their cabs. It's not that you can use three cabs with their heads, you have to in order to get the amp to 4ohms/full power output.
Click to expand...

The real difference between 4 ohms and 5 and change in terms of potential volume is negligible. All the same, it's still a pattern of making up numbers because they look good on paper.
 
#139
billfitzmaurice said:
Where's that from? And is that impedance or DCR? If DCR that's what you'd read with a 16 ohm cab.
Click to expand...

The BGM review lists the 'measured impedance' at 10.54ohms. But the graph of the impedance curve makes it look like is in the ballpark of an 8ohm cab, but its hard for me to read the graph clearly at full resolution on my computer here.
 
#140
so.... and correct me if I missed something.... TC Electronics' published output wattage figures, like a fair majority of other companies ratings, are utter BS and are determined more by the marketing department more than the engineering dept... and use colorful graphics and obscure language to justify it all....

Is this news?

My new Ampeg SVT-7Pro sounds about as loud in a wide range of use as several 500 - 750 watt stereo power amplifiers. Same goes for my GB SL900. This is why, for many many years, I used component rigs... a bass preamp with a heavy duty rackmount power amplifier. My real world live bass rig needs call for at least 500 REAL watts, therefore, I dont waste my time on any integrated bass head that purports to make anything less than 800 watts.

:D
 
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