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TecAmp S212/Puma500 Ultra Light Rig

#421
hensonbass said:
I wonder how the Puma 500 head would sound with my Phil Jones neo 8B cab? :confused:

I want to get something better/versatile than my AI Focus head. If I do a gig with an electric bass I have to use a VT bass pedal through the effect loop return. I've also used my REDDI through the loop (utilizing a XLR to 1/4" cable) as well and that sounds GREAT - but it's not very practical to take everywhere and you can't EQ it if needed.
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I hear you on the Focus. Great quality head, and wonderful for DB. However, many EB players find that preamp 'dull sounding' and soup it up with pedals, extra EQ, etc.

Phil's website seems to be down at the moment, so I'm not sure about the impedance of the 8b. I know they are prettly low SPL, and if that cab is not 4ohms, my guess is the Puma500 would not give you the wump you need. I would suggest checking out the new Markbass LMTube800 when they start shipping within a week or two. Same power as the Focus, a blendable tube pre to give you a bit of the Reddi thing, and lot's of powerful EQ, plus a phantom power XLR in with its own volume control for a DB mic or whatever.

K
 
#424
Bass Clef said:
Ken or anyone else,

How does the Puma sound with the Berg AE410 ?

Also does anyone know if the 2 amps in the Puma 1000 are identical to the amp used in the 500 ?

Can anyone tell where are the 2 separate volume controls for each channel located on the 1000 ?
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It sounds pretty darn good with the AE410, although I personally don't dig the 'smooth' of the Puma meeting the 'aggressive voicing' of the AE410. While it sounds very good, it's kind of a yin yang that doesn't really speak to me. I greatly prefer the Markbass heads with the AE410.

The power amps in the 1000 are, from what I understand, two of the 500 power modules, and there are separate volume controls on the back of that amp for each channel to adjust for different cab SPL, etc. The preamp is quite different though, and I've been told the sound of the 500 is a bit fatter and more even than the 1000. The EQ points are a bit different also. Finally, the 1000 will bridge into 8ohms but not 4, which can be an issue for some who use a large 4ohm cab.

Anyway, the 500/AE410 is a great combination if the AE410 is a bit aggressive sounding to you with the Markbass heads. The F1 GRINDS with that cab, and punches like crazy. The Puma500 moves the AE410 a little closer to Epifani territory, extending the low end more than the Markbass heads, and smoothing and softening that aggressive upper mid snarl of the AE410.
 
#426
Bass Clef said:
Thanks Ken.

How would you compare driving the AE410 with a Carbine M6, or TFunk, to the Puma ?

Sorry about all the questions.
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I've heard the M6 with a few other cabs, but not with the AE410. The absolute volume capability of the M6 will bury both the Puma500 and the LMII or Thunderfunk550 (I have not heard the newer, more powerful TF750a). It's a very aggressively voiced head, and unfortunately too many TBers have had trouble with noise, etc., so I no longer recommend that head. The M9 is getting poor reviews also regarding noise.

The TFunk, LMII and Puma500 all put out about the same volume with the AE410, with the LMII having a slight advantage (that head is a freak of nature regarding its low end oomph and overall tone given its size, price and weight). The TF is a bit old school sounding, and softens the upper mid attack of the AE410 nicely (it makes stainless steel roundwounds sound like nickel roundwounds IMO). Both the Puma500 and LMII have deeper low end capability and sizzlier top end capability than the TF. I like the Genz Shuttle 6.0 with the AE410 also... bright and punchy, with a bit more 'roughness' to the tone than the LM or TF (closer to the F1, although the F1 puts out more wump than the Shuttle 6.0 to my ear).

If you don't need the big, massive volume of the M6 or a dB750, I don't think anything sounds better with the AE410 than the LMII or F1 that I've heard. While the sound of the Puma500 and the TecAmp cabs is literally the best I've ever heard (IMO and for my personal tone goals), I could not really justify the much higher cost of the Puma500 over the LMII (now LMIII) or the F1 if the AE410 was my primary cab.

I have an LMTube800 on order specifically to use with the AE410. I'm hoping I get M6 wump out of that, but in the wonderful form factor of the LM line of heads, along with the powerful EQ, etc.

IMO... that was kind of a ramble, but hopefully it made sense:)
 
#428
As promised, I did a pretty good A/B of the Puma500 and the Markbass F1 (I do not have the LMII here at the moment) with the new updated version of the s212. I used my Alleva LG with relatively new Lo Rider Nickels as the sound source.

The F1 sounds MUCH better with the new, revoiced s212 than it did with the original. The original was tighter in the low end, and a bit more aggressive in the upper mids, which resulted in IMO 'too much of a good thing' matched with the F1. The wider, smoother tone of the updated s212 sounds darn good with the F1. It's not as pure and smooth as the Puma500 (which is deeper in the lows, smoother in the mids, and more 'hi fi' in the upper treble).

The F1 (and LMII) really are freaks of nature regarding the punch and volume they put out. While the Puma500 is close to the output of the F1 (and the difference in perceived volume is probably due to the punchier, quicker, tighter voicing of the F1, versus the bigger, smoother, fatter, more pure voicing of the Puma500 versus the actual power section differences), the F1 really hammers through this cab. I couldn't really EQ one amp to sound close to the other... quite different voices.

The revoicing of the 's' cabs again seems to be a very good thing.

tecampmb.gif
 
#429
And... just for the heck of it, I just A/B'd the new s212/Puma500 with the AE410.

Very interesting! While I could hear the s212 start to give up a little bit when really pushed with hard slapping, the sound of the s212 was much more even through the entire range of the bass. While the AE410 has a touch of attenuation going down from the E to the open B on the B string, the s212 is totally, completely even and uncompressed. The new s212 is also more even in the mids, without that bit of boosted presence in the upper mids that the AE410 seems to have.

I would guess the new s212 puts out about 80% of the absolute volume of the AE410(at least with a moderately powered amp... my guess is the AE410 would pull ahead with a higher powered amp.. its just a bigger box and more drivers).

The top end of the s212 is much sweeter than the AE410, but the cool thing is, given that the s212 has that switchable crossover, if you change the tweeter to the 'high hard' setting, the top end sounds VERY similar to the aggressive grind of the AE410. In the 'soft' crossover setting (which has a steeper rolloff and higher crossover frequency per the Bass Gear Magazine review), the top end sounds VERY similar to the EpiUL circuit. In the 'hard' setting, that crossover point drops down a bit, and I believe the rolloff is much less steep, resulting in a lot of grindy upper mid/lower treble to come out of the tweeter, similar to the AE circuit to my ear.

And... the AE410, which is very moderate in weight at about 64 pounds, feels like a boat anchor compared to the s212:D
 
#431
damn you ken... damn you...

I got chills
They're multiplying
And I'm losing control
'Cause the power you're supplying
It's electrifying

GAS!!! OH NOs!!!

I bet that entire rig (TecAmp) weighs less than my bass head (DB750)

I know sound wise where both sit and I love both... but my love for small badass things may make me stir things up gear wise

Now we need someone to compare the new S212 with the new Schroe 212 with the F1/LMII/Puma500
 
#432
My 500 died on me today. Well not me, a player from New Zeeland who rented my rig.
At soundcheck, while showing him the amp, i noticed that the gain never clipped, even when turned up to max, so i figured his bass had a very low output. I asked him to not turn it up above 75 %, just to be safe anyway. So gain at 75%, master at about 60% (yes very low output) and that was volume enough. With my basses that would turn down walls.
Anyway, everything sounded fine, but 30 minutes in the set, it just died. Shut it off, 2 minutes later it worked, and after a while it was back to the original volume again.

Very weird. It was not warm or anything, im guessing the amp thought it was louder than it really was?
I know most modern amps turn off automatically when beeing played to loud/warm. Im guessing his bass just had extremely low output, and that "tricked" the amp.
I will plug it in tomorrow, hope everything is OK. I just got my 350 back from Thomas, and with 6 gigs the two next weeks, i cant send down another amp.
 
#433
Ale said:
My 500 died on me today. Well not me, a player from New Zeeland who rented my rig.
At soundcheck, while showing him the amp, i noticed that the gain never clipped, even when turned up to max, so i figured his bass had a very low output. I asked him to not turn it up above 75 %, just to be safe anyway. So gain at 75%, master at about 60% (yes very low output) and that was volume enough. With my basses that would turn down walls.
Anyway, everything sounded fine, but 30 minutes in the set, it just died. Shut it off, 2 minutes later it worked, and after a while it was back to the original volume again.

Very weird. It was not warm or anything, im guessing the amp thought it was louder than it really was?
I know most modern amps turn off automatically when beeing played to loud/warm. Im guessing his bass just had extremely low output, and that "tricked" the amp.
I will plug it in tomorrow, hope everything is OK. I just got my 350 back from Thomas, and with 6 gigs the two next weeks, i cant send down another amp.
Click to expand...

Something funky going on there.... not sure if it's the amp or something in his signal chain (i.e., a bad speaker cable that is causing the safety function of the amp to engage, etc.). I've just POUNDED mine and never a shutdown, so something is wrong somewhere.

Bummer, it happens. I always carry a spare amp with me because I'm so paranoid about that. I haven't had a failure since my old GK stuff in the 80's, which tended to blow up when you looked at it years ago.

Good luck. Call the TecAmp guys and see what they say.
 
#434
Hey Ken,

Thanks for all the info.

What do you mean the Puma 1000 sounds different to the 500 ? Is it more aggressive than "fat" and "creamy smooth" as you describe the 500 ?

Can anyone else add to this ?

The main reason i'm looking at the 1000 is that I want a head that can handle 3 x 8 ohm cabs.

Is there any other suggestions. The only other heads I could think of similar to be similar to the Tecamp voicing is the Glock Heart Rock which can take 3 x 8 ohms cabs. Does Mark Bass have any heads that can handle 3 x 8 ohm cabs?

i've basically crossed off my list the TFunk 750, and still not sure about the Carbine M6.
 
#435
Bass Clef said:
Hey Ken,

Thanks for all the info.

What do you mean the Puma 1000 sounds different to the 500 ? Is it more aggressive than "fat" and "creamy smooth" as you describe the 500 ?

Can anyone else add to this ?

The main reason i'm looking at the 1000 is that I want a head that can handle 3 x 8 ohm cabs.

Is there any other suggestions. The only other heads I could think of similar to be similar to the Tecamp voicing is the Glock Heart Rock which can take 3 x 8 ohms cabs. Does Mark Bass have any heads that can handle 3 x 8 ohm cabs?

i've basically crossed off my list the TFunk 750, and still not sure about the Carbine M6.
Click to expand...



I have not heard the 1000, only going on other's reviews (including Ale). There have now been a few TBers who have compared the 500 and 1000, and all describe the 500 as fatter and bigger and smoother sounding. Since the bass and treble EQ points are different on the 1000, it seems there is a bit of different voicing going on with those two amps. I would guess it is pretty subtle though.

Maybe Ale can comment.


MB does not have any 2ohm safe heads. The only 2ohm safe Micro I know of is the new Carvin. The Genz Shuttle Max 12 would work. It doesn't have separate volume controls for each side, but that shouldn't be a problem, since hooking two 8ohm 112's to one side, and one 8 ohm 112 to the other side should result in pretty close to the same power being delivered to each box (within 75 watts or so). That might be a good option, and would be a bout $900 less than the 1000.
 
#436
Yeah, well it is always hard for me to describe sound when writing.
The 1000 is a very good amp, for sure, but it does not work for me.
There is something with the hi mids and hi's that just sounds weird to me.
Very honky, and not at all as open and clear sounding as the 500, i can not really put words on what i hear. That preamp is a little mid focused, while the 500 is a lot straighter and cleaner.
You can make the 1000 sound great (with my preferences) but it takes some tweeking, while the 500 sounds a little better totally flat.
The 1000 has a lot of cool features and gadgets, and the compressor is good.
However i like to have as few knobs as possible, hence getting the 500.
 
#437
Ale said:
Yeah, well it is always hard for me to describe sound when writing.
The 1000 is a very good amp, for sure, but it does not work for me.
There is something with the hi mids and hi's that just sounds weird to me.
Very honky, and not at all as open and clear sounding as the 500, i can not really put words on what i hear. That preamp is a little mid focused, while the 500 is a lot straighter and cleaner.
You can make the 1000 sound great (with my preferences) but it takes some tweeking, while the 500 sounds a little better totally flat.
The 1000 has a lot of cool features and gadgets, and the compressor is good.
However i like to have as few knobs as possible, hence getting the 500.
Click to expand...

I think this is where I was confused about Tom Bowlus review of the 1000 on both TB and in his magazine. He also mentioned that he preferred the tone of the 1000 with the low mid control dialed back a bit, which is totally unecessary (IMO) on the 500..... if anything, I bump that low mid control with some widely voiced cabs like the Epi410UL.

However, given your feedback and a few others who have heard both amps, it does seem like the 1000 and the 500 are voiced a bit different, which explains the difference in Tom and I describing the mids I think.

I guess since the 350 is a totally different design (class A/B versus the Class D 500 and 1000), that would be yet another subtle voicing variation.

K
 
#438
Yeah, i have not read Tom's review, i will check it out.
I used the 1000 on a few gigs, its a great amp, but as i said, not my thang really. I had a 1000 that died on me to (suprise :D )
It farted out and started sounding like Darth Vader.
The 350 is a little more towards the 1000 sound, compared to the 500. Its hard to compare it since most of my experiences with the 350 is in the combos, but it is a little punchier than the 500 set flat, and maybe a little harsher actually.
I have only trie the external 350 with two TKS-112's on one occasion, and that sounded ok, but i truly hate thoose cabs.
I got the 350 combo from Germany yesterday, and i will bring it as a backup tonight, så maybe i get some time to A/B the 350 XS112 + XS115 and the 500 + M212 side by side.
Maybe i will use both rigs :D M212 in the middle, XS112 stage left, XS 115 stage right :D
 
#439
Ale said:
Yeah, i have not read Tom's review, i will check it out.
I used the 1000 on a few gigs, its a great amp, but as i said, not my thang really. I had a 1000 that died on me to (suprise :D )
It farted out and started sounding like Darth Vader.
The 350 is a little more towards the 1000 sound, compared to the 500. Its hard to compare it since most of my experiences with the 350 is in the combos, but it is a little punchier than the 500 set flat, and maybe a little harsher actually.
I have only trie the external 350 with two TKS-112's on one occasion, and that sounded ok, but i truly hate thoose cabs.
I got the 350 combo from Germany yesterday, and i will bring it as a backup tonight, så maybe i get some time to A/B the 350 XS112 + XS115 and the 500 + M212 side by side.
Maybe i will use both rigs :D M212 in the middle, XS112 stage left, XS 115 stage right :D
Click to expand...

Wow. That is really strange. Since there aren't a lot of these out there yet (at least on TB), I hope there isn't an issue with their design. I've been pounding my 500 for quite a few months now with a variety of cabs, including some really hard playing outside gigs at 4ohms with no issues. I had the 500 pretty much maxed out last Saturday outside in direct sunlight (at about 85 degrees F) and the fan didn't even kick into high speed). So, I will cross my fingers that these are as solid as, for example, the Markbass line, which has been rock solid (i.e., very few failure complaints on TB).

I would expect a few amps of any line to be 'dead right out of the box', since shipping, etc. can jossle them around a bit. However, once an amp fires up the first time and you've had a few gigs on it, you would expect the vast majority of them (99%+) to be reliable. We will need to keep our eyes on this one
 
#440
No it should not be a problem. If there where problems, i would not play them.
Thomas brought me that 1000, and there where damages to the box, so probably the german postal services. I switched it to a Bonfide that Thomas had.
It was straight out the box, **** happens.

I will call Thomas about the 500 acting strange yesterday, but im guessing the amp thought is was louder then it really was.

I asked Thomas what problem he found on the 350 XS 112, "the badge was loose, making the distorting sound, i fixed it" :D
 

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