TecAmp S212/Puma500 Ultra Light Rig

[Shiveringbass]

Cool man! Sounds great.
Yeah well, it really depends on your sound and if you have PA Support, its great for monitoring but i would not use it standalone without PA support, off course depending on the venue. Still, its a great cab.

Thanks Ale for all the cool infos.


And thanks Ken for your comparison of the two S212.


Regards

 

[KJung]

Hey again guys. I love noodling this stuff so much, so I hope you don't mind all the waxing poetic about the different cab versions.

My buddy Steve (TBer Burk) was over last night, and we played out of the TecAmp rig with the new s212, and it just sounded SO good with my Coppolo LG (old school alder/RW/single coils with nickel roundwounds)... fat, warm, deep, and organic.

It quite amazes me that a change in the tuning of the cab can result in such a different tone (duh I guess, but still a bit surprising), and IMO, I now understand why the TecAmp team went with that paper cone mid driver in the new s212 combo (which also has the new tuning/porting).

As some of you heard from that clip I posted a while back, the original s212 is a very articulate, very bright, very tight, punchy box (I LOVE this cab). The revised s212 (II) has that much deeper low end extension, and smoother upper mids. That results in, IMO and to my ears, a very smooth, organic response, and a bit of a hole between the top of the driver and the response of the tweeter set on the high crossover 'soft attack' position (the 'modern sizzle' position for lack of a better descriptor). As a result, the cab sounds a bit dark for my tastes compared to the original... plenty of click and sizzle, but very little 'brightness or presence' if that makes sense.

Interestingly, in the original, I find the lower crossover point 'hard attack' tweeter setting very harsh and grating since it seems to overlap the top end of the driver quite a bit. However, with the new tuning, that's the setting I prefer, since (again, IMO and just using my ears) that results in a smoother transition from the top end of the driver to the tweeter. However, it's still a horn type tweeter and is a touch aggressive and might be a bit too 'forward' for some tastes. It sounds GREAT with that sort of 60's J/Nickel roundwound J Bass grind though, and the slap tone brings Larry Graham to mind more than Marcus Miller.

So, my guess is, that paper cone mid driver works perfectly to naturally extend the top end of the deeper voiced new cab in the Puma212 Combo. Nice! I wonder if that mid driver will eventually replace the tweeter in all the cabs that have the new porting/tuning. I would recommend that to the TecAmp guys myself, as long as they keep some cabs in the line that have the original voicing for those of us who dig the 'punch and articulation'.

IMO and IME! It's quite an impressive cab, even though the voicing change is a bit in the opposite direction given my tone goals.

 

[Shiveringbass]

Now Ken, your last post is quite worrying.

That S212 was supposed to soon take the place of my Glock 4x10" but it seems the design change is not realy what I've expected.

First the compression in the low frequencies when slapping at loud volume ... then a darker cab than it originaly was...

All that seem to be some bad news and could lead to a cab that has difficulties to cut through the mix (big low end, less high mids, smoother response...)


I'd like to think that your cab needs a breaking time but I'm quite pecimistic.

 

[KJung]

Now Ken, your last post is quite worrying.

That S212 was supposed to soon take the place of my Glock 4x10" but it seems the design change is not realy what I've expected.

First the compression in the low frequencies when slapping at loud volume ... then a darker cab than it originaly was...

All that seem to be some bad news and could lead to a cab that has difficulties to cut through the mix (big low end, less high mids, smoother response...)


I'd like to think that your cab needs a breaking time but I'm quite pecimistic.

The original model was tonally in a similar place as my 410's, and achieved about 75% of the volume of a good, high quality 410 (75% of the volume in half the size and 60% of the weight is a great achievement to me!). However, the updated deeper voicing in that small box fattens and darkens the tone, but also lowers the overall SPL to my ear.

I would not think that the s212 would replace your 410. I think the current M212 would get you quite close though.

And, break-in, if having any effect, would actually extend the low end even more.

Of course, there's always the TecAmp 410, which I think is still only around 52 pounds!

 

[Bassflute]

Or did I miss that (long thread).

Glad you guys found this stuff - I heard them at NAMM 2006 and was VERY impressed with everything they made. Nice, nice stuff.

So, Pat, have you sold your IP rig now, and is the Millenia up for grabs? Just curious.

And BTW, if you ever want to A/B this with the Berg IP112ER stack, come on by - I'd be REALLY curious.

I've been gas free for 6 months now thanks to Jim Bergantino, and personally I can't imagine a better sounding rig. Once the tubes in the Summit warm up, it's just amazing, man.

Cheers,
Cameron

I have been slammin' away on this combo for the last couple weeks, and I have found a few strong points that I'd like to share...

It sounds great flat... Period. I haven't experienced this 'flatness' to this degree with any of my other rigs in the same rooms. Between that little 'taste' knob and my fbass pre in any of it's three positions (single coil/hum canceling/passive) I can cover all my favorite tones without even touching the Puma's EQ?!?! Occasionally some minor eq adjustments are required in a tough spot... but otherwise it's perfect as is. This must be because the amp and cab are SOoo well matched (nicely engineered by the guys at tecamp!), the voice of the amp, and the size/voice of the cab go so great together.

This combo is clean AND musical... as stated above. I pointed out earlier how I was apprehensive about Tecamp not sounding as thick and musical as all the other cabs and amps I've played (being micro AND neo)... but this amp/cab/combo does an excellent job of delivering a hefty, warm and accurate tone through all registers. The top end is very nice, but I think will take some getting used to... my ears are still so partial to that sweet bergie bullet tweeter.

Simple, Powerful and light... is the name of the game here! The puma Is a very basic amp all over, and you can hear why... it doesn't need any bells n' whistles to get a GREAT sound out of it, just plug n' play. I'm also STUNNED at how loud this 212 really is, at only 360 watts into 8 ohms! Now... I know this will sound rediculous, but I think it may be louder than my berg stack Well okay, how about... there's more usable volume in this rig because it sounds fuller and louder all the way down to the low B without giving up. (I'm sure this would not be the case up against the IPER's) It breaks up nicely when pushed to its maximum output, and stays well balanced (not too peaky or compressed) all the way there.

Since I have played with both my bands now, and our practice sessions are very similar in volume and overall setup to most of our more casual gigs... the response has been ecstatic! Everyone really loves the retro look and diminutive size, but mostly, I'm getting comments about how much 'harder it hits' and how much more 'REAL' bass is now in the mix. I was actually getting flamed by a few of my buddies last saturday for not finding this rig earlier! I guess it sounds good to everyone else too

Well, there you have it... another Tecamp success story, go figure

Pat.

 

[speyer]

So, my guess is, that paper cone mid driver works perfectly to naturally extend the top end of the deeper voiced new cab in the Puma212 Combo. Nice! I wonder if that mid driver will eventually replace the tweeter in all the cabs that have the new porting/tuning. I would recommend that to the TecAmp guys myself, as long as they keep some cabs in the line that have the original voicing for those of us who dig the 'punch and articulation'.

IMO and IME! It's quite an impressive cab, even though the voicing change is a bit in the opposite direction given my tone goals.

That's a pretty good guess Ken

I have no direct experience with the the older version of the s212 that you have.. but I can say, this cab DOES sound mighty fine! Deep, organic and still very punchy and articulate IMO/IME.

I can also say, that the high end is flawlessly connected to the drivers which is something I've only ever experienced with my Berg HT115. But since the s212 combo has that paper cone tweeter, is does a great job extending the 'natural' organic tone you hear in the woofers, right up through the highest notes. This cab/combo has turned out to be a step in the right direction for my own tone goals... just as I expected, but I have been pleasantly (and unexpectedly) suprised in so many other ways with this rig! like how friggin' light this stuff is for starters! And also how someone invented these Neo drivers to sound so warm, natural and well... GREAT!! Oh, and the build quality... definitely a step up IME.

Now, I'm also going to guess that the guys at Tecamp REALLY seriously know their stuff...

To take a cab like the s212(version 1) and re-tune/port it, then yank out the tweeter and it's attenuation network only to replace it with a specially selected mid-high paper cone driver (full-well knowing that it'll sound perfect 'as is' with some custom crossover magic), then plunk in their best selling head which is already a perfect match to this cab and make it 8 ohm, because they're confident that the difference in volume/tone (vs 4ohm) is insignificant in this format, up against the advantages of being able to add another cab (like say, a side monitor) if needed.

LOL, this combo is what I call "All-Balls"... because they did their homework... and nailed it in every respect!

Very cool stuff.

Pat.

 

[speyer]

Or did I miss that (long thread).

Glad you guys found this stuff - I heard them at NAMM 2006 and was VERY impressed with everything they made. Nice, nice stuff.

So, Pat, have you sold your IP rig now, and is the Millenia up for grabs? Just curious.

And BTW, if you ever want to A/B this with the Berg IP112ER stack, come on by - I'd be REALLY curious.

I've been gas free for 6 months now thanks to Jim Bergantino, and personally I can't imagine a better sounding rig. Once the tubes in the Summit warm up, it's just amazing, man.

Cheers,
Cameron

Good of you to chime in Cam

Yes, I have sold my Berg stack, Millenia TD-1 and my Summit (oh, and everything else in my basement and garage)

If I'm out that way with my gear in the future I will definitely give you a holler. I'd love to compare this combo to an 'ER' berg stack with a little more booty than my old one I'm VERY impressed with the Tecamp stuff and besides... it might be good to put me in my place after the honeymoon is over.

Good to hear you are enjoying you gas-freedom Cam... I've always loved (and still do) Jim's stuff!

Pat.

 

[Tendollarcat]

Hey Guys,

I've just become a very interested party in these discussions - I've just ordered a Tec 1000 I'm interested (and slightly concerned) by the feedback and comparisons between the 500 and 1000. Anyone else have more comments? I read Tom's review of the 1000 and it mentioned that the Puma 1000 was a warmer and fuller sounding amp than the (for example) Shuttle 6.0. And yet, I've just read comments to the effect that the 1000 is more aggressive sounding (harsher) than the 500? I just find this a bit curious. Does anyone know if the new Bona model has any great differences to the 1000?

I bought the 1000 because I own two 4 ohm cabs - a Glock 2x12 and an EA Wizzy 1x12. These are my much loved big and small cabs of choice. I figure if I really need extra volume I can combine these into an odd looking 3x12 rig

I'm sure the Tecamp gear will be high quality and sound great. I'm just a bit shocked that the larger head (commonly seen as a bit of a flagship model for most brands) is being considered to be of a slightly lower standard than the midsize.

BTW - I just sold a Genz Benz GBE1200, I'm still chuckling at the thought of calling the 1000 a "larger" head

 

[Akito]

^^^ Man, I have played through the 1000, and I really don't think you have anything to worry about! It's an amazing head, and I don't think you should worry for one second or mess with buyers remorse. Of course if you feel differently once you try the amp let me know. I'm sure we can work something out!

 

[Ale]

^^^ Man, I have played through the 1000, and I really don't think you have anything to worry about! It's an amazing head, and I don't think you should worry for one second or mess with buyers remorse. Of course if you feel differently once you try the amp let me know. I'm sure we can work something out!

+1
The 1000 is still one amazing head, they are just different.
You cant go wrong with a 1000.

 

[KJung]

Hey Guys,

I've just become a very interested party in these discussions - I've just ordered a Tec 1000 I'm interested (and slightly concerned) by the feedback and comparisons between the 500 and 1000. Anyone else have more comments? I read Tom's review of the 1000 and it mentioned that the Puma 1000 was a warmer and fuller sounding amp than the (for example) Shuttle 6.0. And yet, I've just read comments to the effect that the 1000 is more aggressive sounding (harsher) than the 500? I just find this a bit curious. Does anyone know if the new Bona model has any great differences to the 1000?

I bought the 1000 because I own two 4 ohm cabs - a Glock 2x12 and an EA Wizzy 1x12. These are my much loved big and small cabs of choice. I figure if I really need extra volume I can combine these into an odd looking 3x12 rig

I'm sure the Tecamp gear will be high quality and sound great. I'm just a bit shocked that the larger head (commonly seen as a bit of a flagship model for most brands) is being considered to be of a slightly lower standard than the midsize.

BTW - I just sold a Genz Benz GBE1200, I'm still chuckling at the thought of calling the 1000 a "larger" head

I don't think I'd worry too much. All this stuff is smoking, and additional headroom is ALWAYS good.

 

[KJung]

That's a pretty good guess Ken

I have no direct experience with the the older version of the s212 that you have.. but I can say, this cab DOES sound mighty fine! Deep, organic and still very punchy and articulate IMO/IME.

I can also say, that the high end is flawlessly connected to the drivers which is something I've only ever experienced with my Berg HT115. But since the s212 combo has that paper cone tweeter, is does a great job extending the 'natural' organic tone you hear in the woofers, right up through the highest notes. This cab/combo has turned out to be a step in the right direction for my own tone goals... just as I expected, but I have been pleasantly (and unexpectedly) suprised in so many other ways with this rig! like how friggin' light this stuff is for starters! And also how someone invented these Neo drivers to sound so warm, natural and well... GREAT!! Oh, and the build quality... definitely a step up IME.

Now, I'm also going to guess that the guys at Tecamp REALLY seriously know their stuff...

To take a cab like the s212(version 1) and re-tune/port it, then yank out the tweeter and it's attenuation network only to replace it with a specially selected mid-high paper cone driver (full-well knowing that it'll sound perfect 'as is' with some custom crossover magic), then plunk in their best selling head which is already a perfect match to this cab and make it 8 ohm, because they're confident that the difference in volume/tone (vs 4ohm) is insignificant in this format, up against the advantages of being able to add another cab (like say, a side monitor) if needed.

LOL, this combo is what I call "All-Balls"... because they did their homework... and nailed it in every respect!

Very cool stuff.

Pat.

Excellent stuff! Yes, this is an impressive company. If they get that mid driver in the stand-alone 's' series, I think they will really have something! The 'hard attack' tweeter setting probably sounds pretty close to your mid driver version, since that lowers the tweeter's crossover and makes the roll-off slope more shallow versus the 'soft attack' setting that sounds so amazing on my original s212. I like it!

With both of my s212's, while neither puts out the wump and ooomph of my two 410's (Epi410UL and Berg AE410), the voicing is just so much more even from top to bottom. You especially notice it in the low end of the new s212. There is absolutely no roll-off in tone or volume all the way down to the open B. The low end response is very 'Acme like'. Very impressive, and unless you are playing at stupid loud volumes, the s212 can handle most gigs. Very nice stuff!!!

 

[CliffD]

Ok, has anyone had the opportunity to play any of the TecAmp stuff with an MTD or Roscoe?

 

[Ale]

Ok, has anyone had the opportunity to play any of the TecAmp stuff with an MTD or Roscoe?

The 535-5 with one of my rigs (350 XS112 XS115) and with a demo 500 and L610. Sounded like the 535, ragadish

 

[Shiveringbass]

Excellent stuff! Yes, this is an impressive company.

Impressive certainly but this habit of changing things every year can be a bit misleading.


I had the french Tecamp distributor yesterday on the phone and he confirme that Tecamp was leaning toward deep and round fondamental tone.

For your information, the XS112 (single 112") had also been revised. It no longer has the multi position switch for the tweeter but only a on/off switch.

It can also be angled backward for monitoring on on stage.

The will to improve your products is surely a great thing but to much change kill the change moreover when you already have a killer product which is a best seller.

 

[KJung]

Impressive certainly but this habit of changing things every year can be a bit misleading.


I had the french Tecamp distributor yesterday on the phone and he confirme that Tecamp was leaning toward deep and round fondamental tone.

For your information, the XS112 (single 112") had also been revised. It no longer has the multi position switch for the tweeter but only a on/off switch.

It can also be angled backward for monitoring on on stage.

The will to improve your products is surely a great thing but to much change kill the change moreover when you already have a killer product which is a best seller.

I would agree with this. They need to figure out a 'final' cab design and stick to it, or the consumer and their retail channel will quickly get confused and frustrated. Quite frankly, I prefer their original 's' design myself. The newer s212 I received has a bit of a 'transition' feel to it, and my guess is, there will be more changes coming.

I guess at this point, I would recommend the original models with the tighter tuning, front porting and the wonderful, wonderful tweeter/crossover design to anyone if you can get one, but would be more hesitant to recommend the 'new cabs' until things settle out a bit.

The Puma500.... everyone should have one of these IMO!

 

[Shiveringbass]

+1.

Part of the problem is that Tecamp website is not updated to reflect the hardware update.

I would be afraid to order a S212 and receive a unit with a mid driver or no more tweeter switching system...


Ken have you shared your impressions with Glen so that Tecamp can ear that.

Apparently Tecamp is not realy easy to get through phone or mail.

 

[KJung]

+1.

Part of the problem is that Tecamp website is not updated to reflect the hardware update.

I would be afraid to order a S212 and receive a unit with a mid driver or no more tweeter switching system...


Ken have you shared your impressions with Glen so that Tecamp can ear that.

Apparently Tecamp is not realy easy to get through phone or mail.

You know me! I've provided feedback to the Osiamo guys and also Glenn. It seems that TecAmp is quite responsive to feedback (i.e., putting the cable pocket on the rack bag was in direct response to customer feedback to the retailers, etc.).

Glenn is awesome. He offered to swap out my new model s212 for a 'new in the box' original model for me since I prefer that cab. I didn't take him up on it (the new cab is cool for what it is), but great service. The Osiamo guys (the distributors for the US are great also).

I again agree that the TecAmp team needs to catch its breath and settle in on a 'final' cabinet design before everyone's head starts to spin!

Interesting on your retailer's comment that they are going for a more 'fat fundamental' voicing. That's a good way to describe the new voicing of the recent s212 I received. However, IMO, if they are going that route, they probably need to go with that mid driver to 'plug the upper mid hole' that seems to happen when you voice a cab that way (i.e., they need to do more of an Acme design, with either a large mid driver, or a mid driver plus tweeter). To be fair, with the current s212, if you set the crossover at the lower frequency level with the shallower roll-off slope (the 'hard attack high' setting with the 4ohm version), the tweeter performs this function pretty well, and the cab sounds very even. However, having the lower treble coming through a traditional tweeter is not everyone's idea of a good time.

Given the voicing of the Puma500, which is so crisp and articulate, I'm kind of surprised they are moving away from the original cab design, which was VERY impressive. Especially for small cabs, I prefer a very even voicing from top to bottom, but with the low end not voiced so deep so that you run into that 'small, loud, or low... you can have two of the three' issue.

IMO! I guess I would again say that anyone who can get an original M212 (or s212) should if you are looking for a tight, articulate tone, and the maximum 'wump per size and weight'

 

[tombowlus]

Ok, has anyone had the opportunity to play any of the TecAmp stuff with an MTD or Roscoe?

Yes to the MTD, no to the Roscoe. IME/IMHO, at least with regard to MTDs, the TecAmp gear is a wonderful fit.

 

[KJung]

Yes to the MTD, no to the Roscoe. IME/IMHO, at least with regard to MTDs, the TecAmp gear is a wonderful fit.

Hey Tom! IMO, with the cab you have (original s210) and my original s212, while I have not heard my rig with an MTD, every bone in my body says the tight voicing, even mids, and the nice control of the treble response would sound wonderful with the MTD.

However, given the more deep, mellow voicing of the revision, that might be 'too much of a good thing' given the low end extension the MTD's are known for. I always found the MTD's perform better with a cab that was voiced a touch more toward the mid present and tight low end than, for lack of a better term, the 'Acme type' big low end and smooth mids sort of thing.

IMO, and just guessing. Regarding Roscoe's, I recently played a buddy's Roscoe, although not out of my TecAmp rig. The low end was HUGE on that bass, but there wasn't a lot happening up top, so IMO even a worse combination with the newer, lower voiced cabs. Again, pure IMO from one who likes a more even tone through the entire range of the instrument versus 'the big boom'!