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Tense rehearsal yesterday

hrodbert696

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Staff member
Gold Supporting Member
Just venting, not really a situation where I need advice to manage, but we'll see where it goes.

So my bread-and-butter gig is a cover band, for the last seven or eight years or so. Like a lot of cover bands, we play a variety of stuff, classic rock, pop, a little country, and so on. We don't try to make a big deal out of being somehow "different" from your normal bar band; we just try to do it really well. ONLY songs that go over, no personal vanity picks, and we keep the set list moving rapidly so there's no dead air. It works.

The band is built around a singer who has her strengths and weaknesses. She has a pretty good voice, not quite as good of an ear, and is musically largely untrained. But especially, she's very much a native of the local bar scene, the venues know her and like her, she has lots of friends who come to see her. Bookings come in pretty steadily and gigs are generally decently-paid and -attended. It's a good gig.

We had to replace our original guitarist a couple of years ago and there weren't very plentiful pickings for the range of music we play. Pretty much only one guy who auditioned was up to it. He also has his strengths and weaknesses. He has good chops; doesn't blast excessive volume; and has a real sense of how to arrange set lists to keep the flow going that's our signature. He's also very aware of being the only treble/chordal instrument in the group and thinks a lot about how to fill the space or arrange his part when the song originally had keys or a second guitar. That's important (we're power trio + singer), but not always on the mark; some songs he applies too much gain when it should be clean because he's afraid the single clean guitar will sound "wimpy," or he'll try to keep up a rhythm pattern while also playing a lead. It can wind up overbusy. Sometimes he'll vary the chord, using an inversion or something to change it up. A lot of the time his ideas work; sometimes I'll hear a clam or he'll get off the beat. The drummer is solid as a rock and I'm pretty good at holding my part down, so given the lack of options we found, I'm content to tune the clams out and let him work it out.

The singer, though, tends to pick at him, and really laid into it at last night's rehearsal. She keeps asking if he's out of tune or in the wrong key. He isn't, and she barely knows what those terms really mean (she's the least musically trained of the four of us, remember). What it usually is, is that he varied the chord in some way, brought out an interesting harmony or voicing, and she got thrown off because she wasn't hearing what she was expecting. She's also been sitting in with another band from time to time over the last few months. So this time she wouldn't let it go; she says that singing with the other band is "easy," nothing throws her off, while at our gigs lately she's been having a hard time and feeling like things don't sit right. She backpedaled after saying that, I think realizing it sounded like a threat to quit, and said she had been feeling this way before she started singing with them. But it's out there.

I try to stay out of this. My philosophy is not to tell another musician how to play their instrument unless I know exactly what it is they need to change and how to do it (I sometimes find myself counting out loud along to a recording to show him, or her, what beat a note falls on). If I were him, I wouldn't feel great about coming into rehearsal to get raked over the coals about my playing by someone who doesn't know what I'm trying to do. I do sometimes encourage him to trust his clean tones more, to lay back and leave some space in the song, and to remember to count to four. But I really don't want him to feel like we're piling on.

So there we are. I guess I'm trying to gauge whether I should let it blow over, let the two of them hash it out, take a side, or what. I've been playing with these people a while and we're friendly, not tight friends, and I don't play with them because the songs are my own personal "heart" music. It's that I like to entertain, I like to get people dancing, plus it's nice to get paid, and this band has been a great vehicle for that. I'd really rather not see it implode over this.
 
Just venting, not really a situation where I need advice to manage, but we'll see where it goes.

So my bread-and-butter gig is a cover band, for the last seven or eight years or so. Like a lot of cover bands, we play a variety of stuff, classic rock, pop, a little country, and so on. We don't try to make a big deal out of being somehow "different" from your normal bar band; we just try to do it really well. ONLY songs that go over, no personal vanity picks, and we keep the set list moving rapidly so there's no dead air. It works.

The band is built around a singer who has her strengths and weaknesses. She has a pretty good voice, not quite as good of an ear, and is musically largely untrained. But especially, she's very much a native of the local bar scene, the venues know her and like her, she has lots of friends who come to see her. Bookings come in pretty steadily and gigs are generally decently-paid and -attended. It's a good gig.

We had to replace our original guitarist a couple of years ago and there weren't very plentiful pickings for the range of music we play. Pretty much only one guy who auditioned was up to it. He also has his strengths and weaknesses. He has good chops; doesn't blast excessive volume; and has a real sense of how to arrange set lists to keep the flow going that's our signature. He's also very aware of being the only treble/chordal instrument in the group and thinks a lot about how to fill the space or arrange his part when the song originally had keys or a second guitar. That's important (we're power trio + singer), but not always on the mark; some songs he applies too much gain when it should be clean because he's afraid the single clean guitar will sound "wimpy," or he'll try to keep up a rhythm pattern while also playing a lead. It can wind up overbusy. Sometimes he'll vary the chord, using an inversion or something to change it up. A lot of the time his ideas work; sometimes I'll hear a clam or he'll get off the beat. The drummer is solid as a rock and I'm pretty good at holding my part down, so given the lack of options we found, I'm content to tune the clams out and let him work it out.

The singer, though, tends to pick at him, and really laid into it at last night's rehearsal. She keeps asking if he's out of tune or in the wrong key. He isn't, and she barely knows what those terms really mean (she's the least musically trained of the four of us, remember). What it usually is, is that he varied the chord in some way, brought out an interesting harmony or voicing, and she got thrown off because she wasn't hearing what she was expecting. She's also been sitting in with another band from time to time over the last few months. So this time she wouldn't let it go; she says that singing with the other band is "easy," nothing throws her off, while at our gigs lately she's been having a hard time and feeling like things don't sit right. She backpedaled after saying that, I think realizing it sounded like a threat to quit, and said she had been feeling this way before she started singing with them. But it's out there.

I try to stay out of this. My philosophy is not to tell another musician how to play their instrument unless I know exactly what it is they need to change and how to do it (I sometimes find myself counting out loud along to a recording to show him, or her, what beat a note falls on). If I were him, I wouldn't feel great about coming into rehearsal to get raked over the coals about my playing by someone who doesn't know what I'm trying to do. I do sometimes encourage him to trust his clean tones more, to lay back and leave some space in the song, and to remember to count to four. But I really don't want him to feel like we're piling on.

So there we are. I guess I'm trying to gauge whether I should let it blow over, let the two of them hash it out, take a side, or what. I've been playing with these people a while and we're friendly, not tight friends, and I don't play with them because the songs are my own personal "heart" music. It's that I like to entertain, I like to get people dancing, plus it's nice to get paid, and this band has been a great vehicle for that. I'd really rather not see it implode over this.
And…you’re all how old, approximately?
 
That's a really poopy way to be. I would personally tell her she is incorrect and piling onto the new guy is a bad look, especially since as you say, she has the least experience. That's her ego getting in the way and I don't pay with those ppl anymore. It's tough to try and keep the peace when she is most likely coming to terms with her limited experience since new guy is challenging her for probably the first time.

Rough situation! Best of luck.
 
It's not clear if the problem is musical, or it's just power show-off.
If it's musical problem, then there is always solution. Ask the singer what are the places where she is thrown off, and work on them. As a lead vocal and performer, she has right to input and you should all work to make her comfortable in performing. It doesn't matter she is untrained, that's the lead vocal you chose.
If it's about power, demonstrating she has upper hand and that she's making rules, than it's complicated. You either yield and, in time, she eats you all alive, or you push back and risk her leaving. I suggest talk one on one with her, with a cup of coffee. Never mind the rest of band, you are the one asking here for advice, so you talk to her. Tell her honestly you like performing with her, you think band is good, and ask what would she change. Point out good things, try to find middle ground and work it out. Do not have this talk in front of the band. She might clam-up feeling confronted and scrutinized. You need friendly conversation and to listen to her.
 
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It seems to me that the weaknesses are playing above the strenghts. I'd be aiming to reverse that. In fact, thats not negotiable and so you should record the tracks and all feedback on them. I'd do this when all present with the clear stated agenda that this is not personal..its about improving the band. People need to be 'directed' diplomatically and with reverence.

If you can't get past this, the band is done as ot stands, because someone will leave.

The girl is an asset with regards being a draw locally but she sounds like she needs to up her game too. And least the gtr shouldn't feel its all on him.

People should accept the critique if..if..they really want to be part of an improving band.
And be straight...are there realistic better options for you all...maybe, maybe not.
 
Just on the "not wanting to pile it on" piece, which I respect. If you're balancing that but also really just trying to look out for the guy/put the band above all else, you may try telling him just that. "Hey man, I've been thinking a bit about our group's dilemmas and I have some thoughts for everyone, but after she lashed at you I don't want it to be perceived as piling on. Let me know if you may be open to hearing..."

If they bite, great. If they don't and you find yourself needing to say something more concrete, well you can cross that bridge then knowing you at least approached it with tact.

I appreciate your awareness about the band's strengths/flaws, the business and non-music realities at play, etc. Seems like you're the most equipped to pull this back on track. If that is a desire/worthwhile (separate issue I won't speak on).
 
I'm willing to take the singer's complaint at face value: The guitarist is throwing her off in his (presumably well-intentioned) efforts to introduce a little variety and creativity, combined with her limited music knowledge and ability. I suspect that in her other band, everyone plays the same chords in the same voicings every time, and she needs that to keep herself in tune. That doesn't mean that anybody is "right" or "wrong": It's just a practical problem to be resolved.

That said, it seems to me that the path of least resistance would be to encourage the guitarist to do what the vocalist needs -- i.e., play the same chords in the same way every time while she is singing -- and save the inversions and substitute chords and such for the instrumental parts.
 
Sounds like the singer is the draw in the band. If she's the reason you're getting booked and people are coming out, that trumps any petty squabbles about arrangements IMO. Sucks she doesn't have the musical education to use the right words but IME that's not something only singers struggle with. The job of a pop band is to make the singer sound good, not try out new voicings or fill space.

I second the idea of recording rehearsals.
 
Record rehearsals. Listen collectively to the recording without instruments in hand, and point out the areas where things are clashing. Present it as an opportunity for positive change. i.e. ask the keyboardist to play 'standard' voicings as an example, then play the 'altered' ones that are causing problems. A/B'ing the examples allows everyone to hear the issue clearly. Try not to make it personal at all (tough to do), but make it clinical. One thing sounds better than the other in a given context. Sometimes you have to get down to the details without micromanaging.
 
My opinion? ( for the .005 cents it's worth )

I have known a lot of bands/musicians, AND personally - usually but NOT always aged folks - that fight all the time about things that don't exist in reality.

IMHO - the reason is Hearing. Not just band folks, but let's face it: Add gig-volumes ( including blasting intermission music ) to no-escape aging of those golden eardrums, folks just don't hear each other as well as we could do decades ago. I think it's a thing. What?
 
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IMHO a singer who can draw gigs and put butts in seats is (sadly) more important than just about anything else y’all have going on. Might be worth doing whatever she needs to hear to make her more comfortable even if it makes less sense musically.

I’ve been in similar situations and it’s a little frustrating sometimes transposing songs to fit their range better, trying to figure out how to musically adapt a song that has multiple melodic accompaniments, etc.

At the end of the day though, if she’s not happy and bails, you’re sort of starting at square one again. 🤷‍♂️

Especially difficult if it’s slim pickings for other musicians in your area.