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Tense rehearsal yesterday

Reminds me of Dana Carvey’s line:

“Ever notice how senior citizens have the exact same wants/needs as toddlers? ‘WIPE MY ASS!! I WANNA WATCH CARTOONS!!’ “

It's a very old trope. Both groups

  • have a hard time keeping track of things
  • love to play games
  • have balance problems
  • need lists to keep them organized
  • are picky eaters
  • fall asleep anywhere
  • are stubborn
  • can't fly alone
  • have questionable clothing choices
  • tell the same stories over and over
  • need your help
  • don't give a f___ about much
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They both need a sit down

1. Guitar guy; We get it, you are changing things up - whether to fight boredom, or make it more musically whatever. Stop that. It bothers her.
2. Singer; He was playing a C7. Right root, right extras. Different pattern. You need to get your OCD meds changed.

And we are gonna lower the gain. Hands up! Oh look - 3 v1, the gain comes down.
And singer may have to put in some effort to deal with a newer arrangement from time to time.

Anyone with problems, you don;t play well with others - there is the door. Or we can - wait for it - put in a little effort and get it right, and better!
 
it's amazing that some you all think you are going to suddenly get this singer to hear chords better and essentially become a jazz singer. 90% of the singers i've worked want a specific arrangement and want you to stick to it. the few that can have the flexibility of an instrumentalist are effin' unicorns. and news flash, singing at a high level is far from easy.
 
It's not clear if the problem is musical, or it's just power show-off.
If it's musical problem, then there is always solution. Ask the singer what are the places where she is thrown off, and work on them. As a lead vocal and performer, she has right to input and you should all work to make her comfortable in performing. It doesn't matter she is untrained, that's the lead vocal you chose.
If it's about power, demonstrating she has upper hand and that she's making rules, than it's complicated. You either yield and, in time, she eats you all alive, or you push back and risk her leaving. I suggest talk one on one with her, with a cup of coffee. Never mind the rest of band, you are the one asking here for advice, so you talk to her. Tell her honestly you like performing with her, you think band is good, and ask what would she change. Point out good things, try to find middle ground and work it out. Do not have this talk in front of the band. She might clam-up feeling confronted and scrutinized. You need friendly conversation and to listen to her.
Best advice, yet.
 
Wrong chordings would surely have me up in arms, to be honest. I feel her pain. Learn the song properly and play it properly. You should always strive to be professional if you are a gigging musician. She may just jump ship if the guitarist continues doing what he's doing. I know it would annoy me!
ATST, the singer's musical naivety and how the other band deals with it is her story she is telling.

My sister has no musical understanding. Whenever someone asks her what key is the song she wants to sing, she says C, no matter what song it is and she doesn't sing it in that key. In fact she did this same song and dance about how she can walk into a situation and starts singing and “the band just falls in behind me without asking what key I need, why can't you be like that!” So we followed her out to one of these open mic things she is talking about and watch her routine. She gets up there, calls a tune and takes off. The band behind her stumbled along, missing the first half of the song trying to figure out, what song she is singing and key its in 😐

After she says “see they didn't ask me for a key and just came right in.” 😐 No they didn't I say and pointed out they didn't know the song you called until the end. Her response was, “well they didn't have to ask me for the key!” 😐

🤣

My point, musically naive people don't know what they don't know.
That’s what rehearsal is for, working out the stuff that needs to make the thing work, not fighting and name-calling.

Another favorite of mine, singer talks into the mic with no band behind them into an empty or dead bar, thinks the mic is too loud and demands it to be turned down. Then when the band kicks in, they can't hear themselves! 🤣
 
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Re reading the OP...the girl has backed off giving the impression she will quit...but thats not a distance option.
She isn't in the other band...yet..just does z couple of gigs.
I'd be keeping a very close eye on their progress. Maybe they value her fan base and would appreciate that at their gigs, but aren't convinced what else she brings so the option to join is not there yet?
It might be a good idea to establish your band is the better option...so no need to consider quitting.

All assets are susceptible to being poached by better offers.
Talk to her about how she is getting on with them. It can't be 100% otherwise she'd be gone, imv.
So, you just need to tweak this issue...and make her understand the gtr perspective too.
Musical differences eat away at things.
Personality issues are more immediate.
 
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As pointed out by others, the singer, no matter how seasoned or not, gets final veto on anything in the band that throws her off.

Acknowledge that and she's likely to be more open to coaching from more seasoned players. When I work with a less experienced singer, I start with the importance of giving good stage direction and signals - "we need someone who'll take charge give good directions". This seems to resonate - it's worked well; I've used it with a few who started out rough and became not only good band directors, but also a commanding and engaging presence on stage. One in particular I started working with 20+ years ago recently moved back to town. I played with her a few days ago in front of a packed house after she took a long break from the stage - She crushed the performance - She's still got it.

As far as the guitar player's excessive gain goes, that's a hard stop for me if it's a regular thing. A guitarist who plays with inappropriately excessive gain levels makes the whole rhythm section sound inarticulate, stepping on everyone's frequency range. At very least, the guitar get lost in the overall din (I'd normally use the word "mix", but, well, you know...).

Inappropriately high gain guitar(s) are a mark of the hack band, even to the non-musician casual listener, who in the back of their mind is thinking, "something ain't right".

Back to the singer, my experience has been women in general hear guitar tones differently than men. They're especially reactive to aggressive, high gain guitar tones. I've learned to accept their opinions carry weight on such matters; My current understanding of Clapton's term, "woman tone", is "guitar tone that does not chase all the women out of the bar". To the singer in the OP's band, this is probably going to be a big factor in deciding whether she stays or goes. Understand that she brings value and bookings. Understand that with some simple acknowledgement and positive next steps, she's likely to continue to improve her skills. Understand that it's much easier to replace a guitar player.

Yeah, we joke in TalkBass about "fire the drummer" I'm blessed to work with some good drummers; Maybe it's time to start a "fire the guitarist" thread.
 
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If you can afford to get rid of people with a few too many imperfections then thats the ideal.
We have a female who has it all... looks fantastic, sings fantastic and plays really well.... other women are dead jealous, which is not a plus..but hey...
but she's always been a solo artist and is not used to the more rough and ready ..and more to the point..loud gigs we give her. However, she wants to do it. The downside is she gets so many offers from abroad that pay far far better, we are only going to have her around 6 months out of the next 12. She misses home...otherwise we'd lose her for good. She can't be replaced, tbh.
We have access to all the other players that are also in demand. They wont join a band..but they'll do gigs and then that gets more regular. They are really seeing if your situation works to be available more.
Really good people are really busy...or as busy as they want to be.
 
Best advice, yet.
Thank you, but sadly my advice comes from bad personal experience.
I had a band just about to sign a contract for tour and go to next level of success.
At the same time, very similar situation happened, and we didn't handle it right. One band member and singer confronted, she left and everything fell apart. Later, she told me main reason she left was not the confrontation, but that she felt no one supported her. She felt alone and left out and no longer part of team.
No matter how professional and grown-up we are, band is still a group of humans with complex social relations. On this forum, very often advice to "work out problem in front of everyone", as an example of catharsis, is given. But that's not how things work in reality.
 
Just venting, not really a situation where I need advice to manage, but we'll see where it goes.

So my bread-and-butter gig is a cover band, for the last seven or eight years or so. Like a lot of cover bands, we play a variety of stuff, classic rock, pop, a little country, and so on. We don't try to make a big deal out of being somehow "different" from your normal bar band; we just try to do it really well. ONLY songs that go over, no personal vanity picks, and we keep the set list moving rapidly so there's no dead air. It works.

The band is built around a singer who has her strengths and weaknesses. She has a pretty good voice, not quite as good of an ear, and is musically largely untrained. But especially, she's very much a native of the local bar scene, the venues know her and like her, she has lots of friends who come to see her. Bookings come in pretty steadily and gigs are generally decently-paid and -attended. It's a good gig.

We had to replace our original guitarist a couple of years ago and there weren't very plentiful pickings for the range of music we play. Pretty much only one guy who auditioned was up to it. He also has his strengths and weaknesses. He has good chops; doesn't blast excessive volume; and has a real sense of how to arrange set lists to keep the flow going that's our signature. He's also very aware of being the only treble/chordal instrument in the group and thinks a lot about how to fill the space or arrange his part when the song originally had keys or a second guitar. That's important (we're power trio + singer), but not always on the mark; some songs he applies too much gain when it should be clean because he's afraid the single clean guitar will sound "wimpy," or he'll try to keep up a rhythm pattern while also playing a lead. It can wind up overbusy. Sometimes he'll vary the chord, using an inversion or something to change it up. A lot of the time his ideas work; sometimes I'll hear a clam or he'll get off the beat. The drummer is solid as a rock and I'm pretty good at holding my part down, so given the lack of options we found, I'm content to tune the clams out and let him work it out.

The singer, though, tends to pick at him, and really laid into it at last night's rehearsal. She keeps asking if he's out of tune or in the wrong key. He isn't, and she barely knows what those terms really mean (she's the least musically trained of the four of us, remember). What it usually is, is that he varied the chord in some way, brought out an interesting harmony or voicing, and she got thrown off because she wasn't hearing what she was expecting. She's also been sitting in with another band from time to time over the last few months. So this time she wouldn't let it go; she says that singing with the other band is "easy," nothing throws her off, while at our gigs lately she's been having a hard time and feeling like things don't sit right. She backpedaled after saying that, I think realizing it sounded like a threat to quit, and said she had been feeling this way before she started singing with them. But it's out there.

I try to stay out of this. My philosophy is not to tell another musician how to play their instrument unless I know exactly what it is they need to change and how to do it (I sometimes find myself counting out loud along to a recording to show him, or her, what beat a note falls on). If I were him, I wouldn't feel great about coming into rehearsal to get raked over the coals about my playing by someone who doesn't know what I'm trying to do. I do sometimes encourage him to trust his clean tones more, to lay back and leave some space in the song, and to remember to count to four. But I really don't want him to feel like we're piling on.

So there we are. I guess I'm trying to gauge whether I should let it blow over, let the two of them hash it out, take a side, or what. I've been playing with these people a while and we're friendly, not tight friends, and I don't play with them because the songs are my own personal "heart" music. It's that I like to entertain, I like to get people dancing, plus it's nice to get paid, and this band has been a great vehicle for that. I'd really rather not see it implode over this.
This sounds like the beginning of the end to me. Revoicing a chord should not throw anyone off and she was most definitely making a threat even if she did back off. As for the comments that you need to bend a knee to whatever the singer wants is BS. Their lack of training/knowledge absolutely matters if they want to start arguing about things they do not understand.
 
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The bias in our cover band is that the recording rules. So if an inversion that is being played isn't there, it has to go. If it is there and the singer can't handle it, he/she needs to learn to sing it. We have bass, lead guitar, and keyboard, so sometimes we won't sound like the recording. But for us, the recording dictates what chord when, what the bass line is, or a lead solo etc.

Maybe that would help here. The bass player before me didn't work out because he was always "jazzing it up". I get it, not all cover bands operate this way and they don't have to. But in our band, differences in how the song goes, structure, melody, vocals, and basic feel are usually resolved by listening to the recording and copying it as best we can.
 
The bias in our cover band is that the recording rules. So if an inversion that is being played isn't there, it has to go. If it is there and the singer can't handle it, he/she needs to learn to sing it. We have bass, lead guitar, and keyboard, so sometimes we won't sound like the recording. But for us, the recording dictates what chord when, what the bass line is, or a lead solo etc.

Maybe that would help here. The bass player before me didn't work out because he was always "jazzing it up". I get it, not all cover bands operate this way and they don't have to. But in our band, differences in how the song goes, structure, melody, vocals, and basic feel are usually resolved by listening to the recording and copying it as best we can.
Totally agree about listening to the recording and following it, especially regard chord inversions. As for the bass player before you, it sounds likely to me that he had not learned the bass parts on the recording but was just doing his thing based on the chord changes. A great, and correct, bass part can make, or break, a song cover depending on how it sits with the other parts.
 
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For me, bands have to do something to the song. You can't have a song that is 20years old .. and some..and still want to sound like the record. Even the original recorders would have worked it up so many times over.
If bands can't do that, they are karaoke bands or jukeboxes.

Tell or encourage the singer to get some musicality.
Anyway..thats my thing, but more importantly, back to the issue, I still don't believe the singer isn't picking a fight for a reason.
 
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